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Performance Tuning - Crash on Load

mike10101011

By mike10101011
in Step Skyrim SE Guide

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mike10101011 Citizen

mike10101011

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I finally got to the Performance Tuning step of the guide and the game keeps crashing.  I've looked through other articles and followed some suggestions but continue to have issues.

  • All mods were installed but I'm not using ENB.
  • All plug-ins are enabled
  • I'm on 1.6.640. I had to install the latest version, open it to download all the creation club items, then downgrade to .640. 
    • I learned this after finishing, so I had to Verify Integrity to get back to latest version to get these to download. But I reverted back to .640 afterwards
    • Recleaned all the masters and moved the backups back to the Data folder
  • I sorted with LOOT and got a couple warnings
    • Those that could use the xEditQuickAutoCleaned I did
    • Those that said to just remove a file, I used xEdit to manually remove them
    • There are no errors or warnings, though there are some messages saying there are patches available, but I'm ignoring those since STEP has patches at the end
  • In benchmarking steps, I disabled the Clear Map mod
  • I also disabled various blocks of mods and then even the entire list, and it crashes even with No mods enabled.

When selected SKSE to load from MO, it opens the game to the logo for about a second, then crashes to desktop.

Timestamped crash log only says: Unhandled exception "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" at 0x7FF7C0888090 SkyrimSE.exe+0198090    mov rax, [rcx+0x30]

The main message I see in the CrashLogger file is it cannot find a PDB, but I'm not sure what that is.

 

Any other ideas on what I can take a look at?

z929669 Akatosh

z929669

Posted
Posted
  On 2/2/2024 at 6:23 PM, mike10101011 said:

I installed it, though not too sure where to place it. I tried at the end, with Foundations, and with Extenders. I sorted with LOOT, but still running into the same issues.

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It can be installed anywhere, since it's a binary with no conflicts. In keeping with the guide, install it under 02-Extenders.

Remove/rename ..\Data\_ResourcePack* if they are present in your game folder.

mike10101011 Citizen

mike10101011

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  On 2/2/2024 at 6:47 PM, z929669 said:

It can be installed anywhere, since it's a binary with no conflicts. In keeping with the guide, install it under 02-Extenders.

Remove/rename ..\Data\_ResourcePack* if they are present in your game folder.

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I renamed the esl and bsa files *.backup.

This is actually enabled in plugins, too. When I renamed the files, they went away when I restarted MO. I had enabled it based on some verbiage under Mod Installation Considerations: https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/SkyrimSE:2.2.0#Quick_Reference: "Always install plugins (ESLs/ESMs/ESPs), unless otherwise noted." I wasn't sure if that meant only installed mods or ones that came with the base.

Ran LOOT, no changes to order.

Ran SKSE...Crashed at the same place. Same PDB error.

ButchDiavolo Jarl

ButchDiavolo

Posted
Posted
  On 2/2/2024 at 7:07 PM, mike10101011 said:

I renamed the esl and bsa files *.backup.

This is actually enabled in plugins, too. When I renamed the files, they went away when I restarted MO. I had enabled it based on some verbiage under Mod Installation Considerations: https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/SkyrimSE:2.2.0#Quick_Reference: "Always install plugins (ESLs/ESMs/ESPs), unless otherwise noted." I wasn't sure if that meant only installed mods or ones that came with the base.

Ran LOOT, no changes to order.

Ran SKSE...Crashed at the same place. Same PDB error.

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Did you make the following changes to the SSE Engine Fixes EngineFixes.toml file:

EnableAchievementsWithMods = false
SaveAddedSoundCategories = false
SaveScreenshots = false

If you are still crashing after that, please post a complete crash log on pastebin or under a spoiler here.

EDIT: Also make sure you downloaded the correct version of (Part 1) of SSE Engine Fixes.

mike10101011 Citizen

mike10101011

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  On 2/2/2024 at 9:26 PM, ButchDiavolo said:

Did you make the following changes to the SSE Engine Fixes EngineFixes.toml file:

EnableAchievementsWithMods = false
SaveAddedSoundCategories = false
SaveScreenshots = false

If you are still crashing after that, please post a complete crash log on pastebin or under a spoiler here.

EDIT: Also make sure you downloaded the correct version of (Part 1) of SSE Engine Fixes.

Expand  

I missed the EnableAchievementWithMods (though I would still like achievements when playing...). I updated that to false.

I currently have "(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.6.629 and newer" installed since I have 1.6.640.

Reran LOOT and then SKSE. Same crash.

 

Log files below. First is the timestamped file. Second is the crashlogger that gets overwritten. These are the ones in the My Games folders...I believe the Crash mod put those here. Let me know if there's another I should be referencing.

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

 

ButchDiavolo Jarl

ButchDiavolo

Posted
Posted
  On 2/2/2024 at 9:52 PM, mike10101011 said:

I missed the EnableAchievementWithMods (though I would still like achievements when playing...). I updated that to false.

I currently have "(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.6.629 and newer" installed since I have 1.6.640.

Reran LOOT and then SKSE. Same crash.

 

Log files below. First is the timestamped file. Second is the crashlogger that gets overwritten. These are the ones in the My Games folders...I believe the Crash mod put those here. Let me know if there's another I should be referencing.

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As far as I know, the achievements setting in EngineFixes is broken in 1130 and up. And also if you downgrade back. Hence why you have to disable the setting for now.

First of all, your current crashes are NOT the same as the original one. That log mentioned memory address "0198090", which indicated having a plugin which is not compatible with the new ESL format. And that was fixes with the mod DoubleYou suggested. So the cause of that crash is sorted.

As for the latest crash log, The fact that you crash even without any mods enabled, hints towards a problem with SKSE itself. Did you revert back to version 2.2.3? Try reinstalling that version (including the scripts in MO2), maybe it is a simple as that?

Another cause could be the actual game files themselves. I did see some "string" errors, so perhaps the language files are somehow corrupted/missing during the roll back to 640? Exactly how did you roll back to 640? Did you have the game files backed up, used the Downpatcher from Nexus (if so which form? Best of both worlds?) or the depot download? if you did the depot download, is your standard language English? Please give as much details, because sometimes the tiniest of errors can be the cause.

Now a caveat, I am by no means an experienced crash log reader. All of the above is based on what stood out to me.

mike10101011 Citizen

mike10101011

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Posted (edited)
  On 2/3/2024 at 12:28 PM, ButchDiavolo said:

As far as I know, the achievements setting in EngineFixes is broken in 1130 and up. And also if you downgrade back. Hence why you have to disable the setting for now.

First of all, your current crashes are NOT the same as the original one. That log mentioned memory address "0198090", which indicated having a plugin which is not compatible with the new ESL format. And that was fixes with the mod DoubleYou suggested. So the cause of that crash is sorted.

As for the latest crash log, The fact that you crash even without any mods enabled, hints towards a problem with SKSE itself. Did you revert back to version 2.2.3? Try reinstalling that version (including the scripts in MO2), maybe it is a simple as that?

Another cause could be the actual game files themselves. I did see some "string" errors, so perhaps the language files are somehow corrupted/missing during the roll back to 640? Exactly how did you roll back to 640? Did you have the game files backed up, used the Downpatcher from Nexus (if so which form? Best of both worlds?) or the depot download? if you did the depot download, is your standard language English? Please give as much details, because sometimes the tiniest of errors can be the cause.

Now a caveat, I am by no means an experienced crash log reader. All of the above is based on what stood out to me.

Expand  

Good call out on the log difference. I'm not used to reading these logs and didn't see that.

I have 2.2.3 SKSE. The first time around, I actually did the latest and wound up starting over. This time, I made sure I got 2.2.3 and the description says it's for 1.6.640. Nevertheless, I'll reinstall it as you suggest.

  1. MO, Remove SKSE64
  2. Deleted files from Steam files
  3. Nexus, download SSKE 2.2.3 to file
  4. Extracted dll and exe to Steam folder
  5. Created empty, moved to appropriate level, and enabled
  6. Opened SKSE64 folder and created SKSE\SKSE.ini and added text as directed
  7. I copied the Scripts folder over to SKSE
  8. Deleted the old executable in MO and recreated it.
  9. Ran SKSE
  10. Crash at the same point.
  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

Now the errors are the same, right? This was last time and this time.

Unhandled exception "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" at 0x7FF6DACCC4B3 SkyrimSE.exe+01CC4B3    test byte ptr [rcx+0x0C], 0x01

I also tried running it without any enabled, and it crashed again.

You mentioned to reinstall SKSE and the scripts. Which scripts do you mean? Just the folder for SKSE? I only moved them, but I haven't run anything for SKSE.

How did I downgrade? I installed the latest via Steam. Downloaded the CC items. Disabled Updates. Then I used Steam Console to download the depots. I moved the files to the game folder and overwrote where needed. Here's the depots I used:

download_depot 489830 489831 3660787314279169352

download_depot 489830 489832 2756691988703496654

download_depot 489830 489833 5291801952219815735

I heard the nexus downgrader wasn't working as expected lately, so I opted for the steam console.

I'm really starting to this this is a base game issue. I tried loading Skyrim from the Steam Launcher. The Skyrim launcher came up, I clicked play. The game opened, but halfway through the Bethesda logo, it crashed. Not sure if the mods skip the logo and goes straight to the Skyrim emblem, but the timing is the same...about 2-3 seconds and it crashes. But though it's crashing at the base, my smoke test worked after only having 02-Extenders. Unfortunately, I can't find anything on logs from Steam. Or rather, I know where the log folder is, but I've no idea which one to review. Everything should be in English.

Edited by mike10101011
additional detail
z929669 Akatosh

z929669

Posted
Posted

Most crash logs make little sense to me. This one has a keyword, "mov", so I'm not sure if an animation is failing or a navmesh.

At this point, please disable all mods other than SKSE64. Try to run pure vanilla + SKSE64 via MO. Test with a new game (do not load a save). If this crashes, you have a problem with your game files and will need to start over from scratch (let Steam upgrade and then repeat the downgrade).

mike10101011 Citizen

mike10101011

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  On 2/4/2024 at 1:07 AM, z929669 said:

Most crash logs make little sense to me. This one has a keyword, "mov", so I'm not sure if an animation is failing or a navmesh.

At this point, please disable all mods other than SKSE64. Try to run pure vanilla + SKSE64 via MO. Test with a new game (do not load a save). If this crashes, you have a problem with your game files and will need to start over from scratch (let Steam upgrade and then repeat the downgrade).

Expand  

No dice. I'm not even getting to the main menu to load a save. It crashes about a second into the Skyrim logo/emblem. Running from Steam directly does the same but on the Bethesda logo.

Any chance I am able to uninstall Skyrim without deleting all the mods? If I start over, it'll actually be the third time. The first time around I didn't realize I needed to download all the CC stuff, so I reset everything. So if I just uninstall the game and probably the Essentials, would that suffice instead of redoing all 400 or so mods?

Also, the guide you listed is for 1.5...I couldn't find one for 1.6.640. Is there really much difference between the two? I was hoping to stay on 1.6, but if it doesn't really matter, I can do 1.5 if I can't get 1.6 to work.

z929669 Akatosh

z929669

Posted
Posted
  On 2/4/2024 at 1:49 AM, mike10101011 said:

No dice. I'm not even getting to the main menu to load a save. It crashes about a second into the Skyrim logo/emblem. Running from Steam directly does the same but on the Bethesda logo.

Expand  

This indicates that you have a problem with your game files. What happens if you launch the game from the Steam Launcher (i.e., no mods, SKSE, no MO, pure vanilla)?

If it crashes, you have incompatibilities in your game files and need to re-validate the game and re-downgrade using whatever method works. The method I linked was posted by someone who knows what they are doing, so you can post on that topic with questions about downgrading reliably. I do not downgrade and have no interest in doing so. I simply backed up the game versions prior to the impending updates so that I would not need to mess with error-prone downgrade methods in the unlikely event I ever want to test anything under a deprecated game version.

My advice is to re-validate via Steam and test that 1.6.1170 runs without issue from the Steam Launcher before doing anything else. Similarly test after the downgrade (plain vanilla via Steam Launcher ... disabling Steam's auto-updates ... another point of failure, I'm afraid). At least then you can rule out fundamental game-file issues.

 

Step does not support anything other than the current game version, so we are in limbo while we await mod authors to align with the latest game update (or until we give up on certain MAs to do so and move forward without their mods).

Greg Talos

Greg

Posted
Posted
  On 2/4/2024 at 1:07 AM, z929669 said:

Most crash logs make little sense to me. This one has a keyword, "mov", so I'm not sure if an animation is failing or a navmesh.

At this point, please disable all mods other than SKSE64. Try to run pure vanilla + SKSE64 via MO. Test with a new game (do not load a save). If this crashes, you have a problem with your game files and will need to start over from scratch (let Steam upgrade and then repeat the downgrade).

Expand  

If you are referring to to the probably call stack, these are processor instructions. The mov instruction is typically used to move data from memory to a register or vice versa (from a register to memory). It's been too many decades since I fiddled with x86 assembly so I don't remember if mov supports register to register or memory to memory. 

PROBABLE CALL STACK:
    [0] 0x7FF6DACCC4B3 SkyrimSE.exe+01CC4B3 -> 15507+0x333    test byte ptr [rcx+0x0C], 0x01
    [1] 0x7FF6DACC923C SkyrimSE.exe+01C923C -> 15469+0x5C    movzx r9d, byte ptr [0x00007FF6DC9465B0]
    [2] 0x7FF6DAC7C648 SkyrimSE.exe+017C648 -> 13760+0x78    mov [r13+0xDAA], r15b
    [3] 0x7FF6DAC7AC58 SkyrimSE.exe+017AC58 -> 13753+0x328    xor dil, dil
    [4] 0x7FF6DB0E92C6 SkyrimSE.exe+05E92C6 -> 36553+0x346    call 0x00007FF6DACC92A0
    [5] 0x7FF6DB0F285C SkyrimSE.exe+05F285C -> 36644+0x1C    xor eax, eax
    [6] 0x7FF6DB745E4D SkyrimSE.exe+0C45E4D -> 68445+0x3D    mov rcx, [0x00007FF6DDB06898]

What i can say is that (looking at very top of the stack and the registers), it looks is if the game is attempting to read the English string files (perhaps for a BGSStoryManagerBranchNode a bit further down the stack) and this caused an unhandled access violation exception at 0x7FF6DACCC4B3 (test byte ptr [rcx+0x0C], 0x01). This is getting the address in RCX, adds 0x0C to this address, and then tests whether the byte at this memory address has the 0x01 bit set. The issue here is that in REGISTERS, i see that RCX is 0x0 (a null pointer). This basically means RCX+0x0C is pointing into unallocated memory space and this is why the game crashed.

I also see EngineFixes.dll and tbbmalloc.dll in the stack trace, so I'm inclined to think it's remotely possible something in Engine Fixes or you are correct that the vanilla game files may be at fault. Take this with a grain of salt because the honest answer is that I don't see anything in this crash log that definitively points to the culprit. I haven't tinkered with assembly since just after the the 80386 was released, and I have zero RE skills with game engines.

z929669 Akatosh

z929669

Posted
Posted
  On 2/4/2024 at 3:39 AM, Greg said:

If you are referring to to the probably call stack, these are processor instructions. The mov instruction is typically used to move data from memory to a register or vice versa (from a register to memory). It's been too many decades since I fiddled with x86 assembly so I don't remember if mov supports register to register or memory to memory. 

PROBABLE CALL STACK:
    [0] 0x7FF6DACCC4B3 SkyrimSE.exe+01CC4B3 -> 15507+0x333    test byte ptr [rcx+0x0C], 0x01
    [1] 0x7FF6DACC923C SkyrimSE.exe+01C923C -> 15469+0x5C    movzx r9d, byte ptr [0x00007FF6DC9465B0]
    [2] 0x7FF6DAC7C648 SkyrimSE.exe+017C648 -> 13760+0x78    mov [r13+0xDAA], r15b
    [3] 0x7FF6DAC7AC58 SkyrimSE.exe+017AC58 -> 13753+0x328    xor dil, dil
    [4] 0x7FF6DB0E92C6 SkyrimSE.exe+05E92C6 -> 36553+0x346    call 0x00007FF6DACC92A0
    [5] 0x7FF6DB0F285C SkyrimSE.exe+05F285C -> 36644+0x1C    xor eax, eax
    [6] 0x7FF6DB745E4D SkyrimSE.exe+0C45E4D -> 68445+0x3D    mov rcx, [0x00007FF6DDB06898]

What i can say is that (looking at very top of the stack and the registers), it looks is if the game is attempting to read the English string files (perhaps for a BGSStoryManagerBranchNode a bit further down the stack) and this caused an unhandled access violation exception at 0x7FF6DACCC4B3 (test byte ptr [rcx+0x0C], 0x01). This is getting the address in RCX, adds 0x0C to this address, and then tests whether the byte at this memory address has the 0x01 bit set. The issue here is that in REGISTERS, i see that RCX is 0x0 (a null pointer). This basically means RCX+0x0C is pointing into unallocated memory space and this is why the game crashed.

I also see EngineFixes.dll and tbbmalloc.dll in the stack trace, so I'm inclined to think it's remotely possible something in Engine Fixes or you are correct that the vanilla game files may be at fault. Take this with a grain of salt because the honest answer is that I don't see anything in this crash log that definitively points to the culprit. I haven't tinkered with assembly since just after the the 80386 was released, and I have zero RE skills with game engines.

Expand  

Wow. First, you posted this while I was posting a new 'Banter Inn' topic touching on the subject of crash logs ... lol.

Second, your analysis is very helpful in understanding the interpretation of crash logs (and how I would need to take an assembly class to begin to follow in any meaningful way).

So "unallocated memory space" probably either means "out of memory" (not enough GPU VRAM or system RAM) OR that "the memory address is just undefined in memory space"? Your guess about Engine Fixes seems to point more to the latter.

Anyway, yes, I always find issues using a systematic, intuitive approach (i.e., start over, simplify, and pay attention this time!!) without letting myself getting bogged down by my lack of understanding of the underlying technicalities :)

Mousetick Emperor

Mousetick

Posted
Posted
  On 2/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, mike10101011 said:

I'm really starting to [think] this is a base game issue.

Expand  

It's not exactly a base game issue.

  On 2/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, mike10101011 said:

But though it's crashing at the base, my smoke test worked after only having 02-Extenders.

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So you were able to successfully complete the 'Game-Launch Smoke Test' at the end of 02-Extenders at some point? Do you confirm?

  On 2/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, mike10101011 said:

Unfortunately, I can't find anything on logs from Steam. Or rather, I know where the log folder is, but I've no idea which one to review. Everything should be in English.

Expand  

I don't understand what you're talking about.

  On 2/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, mike10101011 said:

I tried loading Skyrim from the Steam Launcher. The Skyrim launcher came up, I clicked play. The game opened, but halfway through the Bethesda logo, it crashed. Not sure if the mods skip the logo and goes straight to the Skyrim emblem, but the timing is the same...about 2-3 seconds and it crashes.

Expand  

I'll try to explain as clearly and simply as possible:

  • You have a mix of Skyrim SE 1.6.640 files with Skyrim SE 1.6.1170 files.
  • The 1.6.640 files are the ones you downloaded from Steam console and copied over to the game folder, overwriting.
  • The 1.6.1170 files are the AE CC modules you initially installed, which are not included in base Skyrim SE (and were not overwritten by the "downgrade").
  • These AE CC modules require Skyrim SE 1.6.1170.
  • So it's logically not possible to run the game from the Skyrim Launcher, because the AE CC modules do not work with SkyrimSE.exe 1.6.640 and vice-versa. There is nothing "wrong" with that, as such failure is expected. This is not a useful troubleshooting step.

The absolute minimum setup that can run a downgraded Skyrim SE with a mix of 1.6.1170 files is:

  • SKSE (as described in the STEP Guide)
  • Address Library for SKSE Plugins (as described in the STEP Guide)
  • Backported Extended ESL Support (not part of the current Guide, install in mod manager like other SKSE plugins)

The above set + the game files obtained from Steam are the new base game. It can only be run by launching it with the SKSE Launcher.

Go back to a mod setup where you can successfully run the new base game, then the new base game + the complete set of 02-Extenders, and then successfully complete the Game-Launch Smoke Test procedure. You don't need to uninstall/reinstall anything, just disable mods in the mod manager to trim down the setup.

Ignore the previous advice about changing some settings to 'false' in the EngineFixes.toml configuration (they don't apply here, they're for users running SkyrimSE.exe 1.6.1170, but you're running SkyrimSE.exe 1.6.640). They can all be left at their default values, which is normally 'true'.

Once you have confirmed you have a sane and functioning new base game + 02-Extenders setup, then we can start actually troubleshooting what your actual issue is.

For a proper "Best of Both Worlds" downgrade, you should only overwrite 1.6.1170 files with 1.6.640 files in the root Skyrim Special Edition game folder while leaving the Data subfolder intact. There are actually only 3 files that need to be downgraded by overwriting with 1.6.640 copies:

  • SkyrimSE.exe
  • SkyrimSELauncher.exe
  • steam_api64.dll

Everything else should remain exactly as it was initially installed/updated by Steam, that is version 1.6.1170. The whole Data folder should not be tempered with.

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