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XPMSSE Weapon Styles Uncloaked (by chuckseven1)

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Discussion topic:
XPMSSE Weapon Styles Uncloaked by chuckseven1
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This basically does to XPMSSE what SPID for Footprints does to Footprints.

I only briefly tested this. I was having some Papyrus overload and growing stack issues with the scripts from XPMSSE despite the Fixed Scripts and Papyrus Stack Fix.

Important Notes:

  • This is only useful if you intend to use the Weapon Styles feature of XPMSSE, which is enabled by default. Otherwise it will just add useless bloat to every NPCs in game.
  • If you don't intend to use the Weapon Styles feature of XPMSSE, you should disable the "Weapon Styles Cloak Spell" in the XPMSSE MCM at the beginning of a game (i.e. after character creation).
  • Don't enable this on an existing game that had the "Cloak Spell" enabled. NPCs will end up with 2 copies of the effect applied, which is probably bad if not completely broken.

This mod provides a straightforward SPID configuration and a plugin that removes the cloak spell enable/disable option in the MCM. Again as pointed out above, it's equivalent to turning the Weapon Styles option ON, but in a much more efficient way.

Subjective Notes:

I eventually ended up completely disabling the XPMSSE plugin in my game, as I don't care about the Weapon Styles feature at all. I don't know what the plugin does besides providing an MCM to configure the Weapon Styles, and adding a cloak spell to the player. So I'm only using the skeleton meshes and accompanying standard animations that XPMSSE provides, without any other features, totally script-free. And my game is much happier, and snappier, for it.

For those users who care about fancy equipment displays and/or animations, there are far better mods nowadays implemented as SKSE plugins, than XPMSSE:

Technical Notes:

Both XMPSSE and Footprints are old mods that use a very inefficient method of applying effects to NPCs. The player constantly casts a "cloak" spell within a certain radius around them. Whenever that spell hits an NPC (or a creature, or any actor, as the case may be), a Papyrus script is executed. This script must check certain conditions to determine whether the effect should be applied or not. The effect that is applied to each actor is actually another spell with another script attached that implements the specific feature (weapon style, or footsteps, respectively).

The benefit of the cloak spell method is that it's very compatible: it doesn't edit any NPC record, and it works with any NPC, vanilla or mod-added.

The downside is that it's entirely based on (more or less badly-written) Papyrus scripts that run every time an NPC is near the player.

Edited by Mousetick
Clarification

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On 6/9/2022 at 12:36 AM, Mousetick said:

Discussion topic:
XPMSSE Weapon Styles Uncloaked by chuckseven1
Wiki Link


[snipped]

Subjective Notes:

I eventually ended up completely disabling the XPMSSE plugin in my game, as I don't care about the Weapon Styles feature at all. I don't know what the plugin does besides providing an MCM to configure the Weapon Styles, and adding a cloak spell to the player. So I'm only using the skeleton meshes and accompanying standard animations that XPMSSE provides, without any other features, totally script-free. And my game is much happier, and snappier, for it.

[snipped]

I never knew you could even do that! I was under the impression that the plugin was needed by other mods. I never cared for the Weapon Styles (and STEP 2.0 doesn't include them anyway). Perhaps it is an idea to just update the XPMSSE setup to disable the plugin and only keep the meshes? Thus also eliminating the "need" for the fixes (and fixes of fixes) for XPMSSE entirely.

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2 hours ago, ButchDiavolo said:

I never knew you could even do that! I was under the impression that the plugin was needed by other mods. I never cared for the Weapon Styles (and STEP 2.0 doesn't include them anyway). Perhaps it is an idea to just update the XPMSSE setup to disable the plugin and only keep the meshes? Thus also eliminating the "need" for the fixes (and fixes of fixes) for XPMSSE entirely.

I am all for using only the skeleton from XP32 and only if it's needed for other mods (e.g., ragdoll behavior). I don't think we have ever used the respective add-on animations that may require it. It would eliminate several mods that would then be redundant.

What @Mousetick describes makes sense. I also found this post.

I honestly have not done any analysis of XP32 and related, so let's see what @TechAngel85, @DoubleYou, and @Greg think. This discussion relates to at least 4 mods we are using I think.

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I honestly have no idea. Always used it because it was typically required. I never actually explored the feature set.

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2 hours ago, ButchDiavolo said:

I never knew you could even do that! I was under the impression that the plugin was needed by other mods. I never cared for the Weapon Styles (and STEP 2.0 doesn't include them anyway). Perhaps it is an idea to just update the XPMSSE setup to disable the plugin and only keep the meshes? Thus also eliminating the "need" for the fixes (and fixes of fixes) for XPMSSE entirely.

The plugin and associated Papyrus scripts are only needed for the Weapon Styles feature (and associated animations). The skeleton meshes and animations overwrite vanilla files, they don't need a plugin to be effective. This is similar to installing ELFX and disabling its plugins to keep the meshes.

I believe the XPMSSE mod could be omitted entirely from the guide - AFAIK there are no other mods in the guide that absolutely require it.

However it's nice to still include it in the guide simply for the skeleton meshes and animations - without enabling the plugin - because it's the de-facto "standard" and a boat load of mods depend on its skeleton meshes and animations - but not on its plugin, which is a completely separate feature. In that case, as you remarked, the fixes, and fixes of fixes, are not needed anymore.

That's essentially what I've done.

  • Thanks 1

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I've used the features in the past to place some weapons in different spots but I haven't touched the plugin features in ages. XPMSSE and it's LE counterpart has always been included for users to customize animations on their own. As Mousetick mentioned, it's required for a lot of those animation mods. Since the animations, themselves, are subjective, we've never really include anything beyond a few small fixes.

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1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

The plugin and associated Papyrus scripts are only needed for the Weapon Styles feature (and associated animations). The skeleton meshes and animations overwrite vanilla files, they don't need a plugin to be effective. This is similar to installing ELFX and disabling its plugins to keep the meshes.

I believe the XPMSSE mod could be omitted entirely from the guide - AFAIK there are no other mods in the guide that absolutely require it.

However it's nice to still include it in the guide simply for the skeleton meshes and animations - without enabling the plugin - because it's the de-facto "standard" and a boat load of mods depend on its skeleton meshes and animations - but not on its plugin, which is a completely separate feature. In that case, as you remarked, the fixes, and fixes of fixes, are not needed anymore.

That's essentially what I've done.

Thanks SO much for bringing this to my attention! I ripped out everything except the meshes, re-ran FNIS (yes, FNIS... can't STAND Nemesis) and hey presto... It works as it should. AND NO Papyrus-log spam!!! *wipes a tear*

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1 hour ago, ButchDiavolo said:

I ripped out everything except the meshes

If you do this on an ongoing game like I did, beware there will be XPMSSE remnants in your game save file: "orphaned/unattached" script instances, so-called because the plugin that started/used them is no longer present. They'll be stuck in there forever. That's not really a problem, as they are now "inert" - it's just useless bloat.

If you want to keep a lean and clean game save, I'd suggest using FallrimTools ReSaver to get rid of these leftovers. Make and keep backup before/after saves to be safe, in case something goes wrong.

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44 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

If you do this on an ongoing game like I did, beware there will be XPMSSE remnants in your game save file: "orphaned/unattached" script instances, so-called because the plugin that started/used them is no longer present. They'll be stuck in there forever. That's not really a problem, as they are now "inert" - it's just useless bloat.

If you want to keep a lean and clean game save, I'd suggest using FallrimTools ReSaver to get rid of these leftovers. Make and keep backup before/after saves to be safe, in case something goes wrong.

I started a new game. I have been testing mods, so I haven't been past Whiterun for weeks...

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10 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

I've used the features in the past to place some weapons in different spots but I haven't touched the plugin features in ages. XPMSSE and it's LE counterpart has always been included for users to customize animations on their own. As Mousetick mentioned, it's required for a lot of those animation mods. Since the animations, themselves, are subjective, we've never really include anything beyond a few small fixes.

I was mistaken. We only have two additional XP mods in the guide:

image.png

Regardless, I support using only the meshes from XP32, and I also seem to have restricted many assets from this mod (forget when and why, but likely related to this conversation):

image.png

 

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The scripts and interface folders are not needed if we do not use the plugin. The interface folder contains translations for strings used in the plugin and an image that I think is displayed in the MCM.

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