ACCEPTED Lock Overhaul (by Quad2Core/8Phantasm)

[TechAngel85]

Discussion topic:

Lock Overhaul by Quad2Core/8Phantasm

Wiki Link

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[Arel]

Does this has any alternatives? Because this has bunch of HITME FormIDs and over on the xEdit discord they said if a mod has HITME it should be removed from load order.

  Reveal hidden contents

[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Novice_Locks [GLOB:8B000801]

[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000801 (should be 03000801 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Apprentice_Locks [GLOB:8B000802]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000802 (should be 03000802 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Adept_Locks [GLOB:8B000803]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000803 (should be 03000803 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Expert_Locks [GLOB:8B000804]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000804 (should be 03000804 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Master_Locks [GLOB:8B000805]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000805 (should be 03000805 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Novice [GLOB:8B00080A]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080A (should be 0300080A )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Apprentice [GLOB:8B00080B]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080B (should be 0300080B )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Adept [GLOB:8B00080C]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080C (should be 0300080C )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Expert [GLOB:8B00080D]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080D (should be 0300080D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Master [GLOB:8B00080E]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080E (should be 0300080E )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Allow_All [GLOB:8B00080F]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400080F (should be 0300080F )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Allow_OneHanded [GLOB:8B000810]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000810 (should be 03000810 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_Allow_IncreaseSkill [GLOB:8B000811]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000811 (should be 03000811 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_SmashLocks_IncreaseSkill_Amount [GLOB:8B000813]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000813 (should be 03000813 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Novice [GLOB:8B000818]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000818 (should be 03000818 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Apprentice [GLOB:8B000819]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000819 (should be 03000819 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Adept [GLOB:8B00081A]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081A (should be 0300081A )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Expert [GLOB:8B00081B]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081B (should be 0300081B )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Master [GLOB:8B00081C]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081C (should be 0300081C )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_UnLockWithSpell_Skill [GLOB:8B00081D]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081D (should be 0300081D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Allow_SmashLocks [GLOB:8B00081E]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081E (should be 0300081E )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Allow_UnLockWithSpell [GLOB:8B00081F]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400081F (should be 0300081F )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Allow_LockRequirement [GLOB:8B000D84]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D84 (should be 03000D84 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_ALLOW_SmashLock_Open [GLOB:8B000D86]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D86 (should be 03000D86 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_SmashLock_Open_Volume [GLOB:8B000D87]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D87 (should be 03000D87 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_IncreaseSkill_Mult [GLOB:8B001DB4]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04001DB4 (should be 03001DB4 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_IncreaseSkill_SkyReMult [GLOB:8B00333D]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400333D (should be 0300333D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Allowed_Spells [GLOB:8B00691D]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400691D (should be 0300691D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Decrease_Required_Skill_Frost [GLOB:8B00691E]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400691E (should be 0300691E )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_Allow_Crime [GLOB:8B007EAA]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04007EAA (should be 03007EAA )
[00:00] _Q2C_MAIN_Active [GLOB:8B009995]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04009995 (should be 03009995 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Global_IsSkyReLoaded [GLOB:8B009EF8]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04009EF8 (should be 03009EF8 )
[00:00] SOTAllowPop [GLOB:8B00CF6C]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400CF6C (should be 0300CF6C )
[00:00] HeartBeat [GLOB:8B00D4CE]
[00:00]     GLOB -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400D4CE (should be 0300D4CE )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_SmashLock_Open [SOUN:8B000816]
[00:00]     SOUN -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000816 (should be 03000816 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_UILockPickingUnlock [SOUN:8B004366]
[00:00]     SOUN -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04004366 (should be 03004366 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_UILockPickingPickBreak [SOUN:8B004367]
[00:00]     SOUN -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04004367 (should be 03004367 )
[00:00] _Q2C_UnlockSpell_ME "Open Locks ME" [MGEF:8B000D82]
[00:00]     MGEF -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D82 (should be 03000D82 )
[00:00] _Q2C_UnlockSpell "Open Locks" [SPEL:8B000D83]
[00:00]     SPEL -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D83 (should be 03000D83 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SmashLock_Quest [QUST:8B000809]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000809 (should be 03000809 )
[00:00] _Q2C_FrostSpell_Quest [QUST:8B0063B6]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 040063B6 (should be 030063B6 )
[00:00] _Q2C_General_Quest [QUST:8B006E83]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04006E83 (should be 03006E83 )
[00:00] _Q2C_PlayerLoadGame_Quest [QUST:8B009EF9]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04009EF9 (should be 03009EF9 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Crime_Quest [QUST:8B009EFA]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04009EFA (should be 03009EFA )
[00:00] _Q2C_LockRequirement_MCM [QUST:8B000800]
[00:00]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000800 (should be 03000800 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Formlist_CrimeFactions [FLST:8B00A45D]
[00:00]     FLST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400A45D (should be 0300A45D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Formlist_Messages [FLST:8B001851]
[00:00]     FLST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04001851 (should be 03001851 )
[00:00] _Q2C_LockRequirement_Perk "_Q2C_LockRequirement_Perk" [PERK:8B000806]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000806 (should be 03000806 )
[00:00] _Q2C_SmashLock_Perk "_Q2C_SmashLock_Perk" [PERK:8B000808]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000808 (should be 03000808 )
[00:00] _Q2C_AutoLock_Perk "_Q2C_AutoLock_Perk" [PERK:8B0038A0]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 040038A0 (should be 030038A0 )
[00:00] _Q2C_OpenLock_SkyRe_Perk "_Q2C_OpenLock_SkyRe_Perk" [PERK:8B003E03]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04003E03 (should be 03003E03 )
[00:00] _Q2C_LockRequirement_SkyRE_Perk "_Q2C_LockRequirement_Perk" [PERK:8B0058F0]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 040058F0 (should be 030058F0 )
[00:00] _Q2C_AutoLock_SkyRe_Perk "_Q2C_AutoLock_Perk" [PERK:8B0058F1]
[00:00]     PERK -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 040058F1 (should be 030058F1 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Message2 [MESG:8B00184D]
[00:00]     MESG -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400184D (should be 0300184D )
[00:00] _Q2C_Message3 [MESG:8B00184E]
[00:00]     MESG -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400184E (should be 0300184E )
[00:00] _Q2C_Message4 [MESG:8B00184F]
[00:00]     MESG -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400184F (should be 0300184F )
[00:00] _Q2C_Message5 [MESG:8B001850]
[00:00]     MESG -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04001850 (should be 03001850 )
[00:00] _Q2C_Message1 [MESG:8B00184C]
[00:00]     MESG -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 0400184C (should be 0300184C )
[00:00] _Q2C_SOUND_SmashLock_Open_SD [SNDR:8B000815]
[00:00]     SNDR -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000815 (should be 03000815 )
[00:00] Done: Checking for Errors, Processed Records: 65, Errors found: 59, Elapsed Time: 00:00

[Greg]

I think you downloaded and installed Lock Overhaul - Ordinator Version by mistake. The Lock Overhaul main file is clean.

[00:00] Start: Checking for Errors
[00:00] Checking for Errors in [62] Lock_Overhaul.esp
[00:00] Done: Checking for Errors, Processed Records: 60, Errors found: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

 

[MightyCrow]

What are the recommended MCM settings when using this mod?

Leaving at defaults makes the mod a paper weight I believe.

[z929669]

  On 3/19/2024 at 9:04 PM, MightyCrow said:

What are the recommended MCM settings when using this mod?

Leaving at defaults makes the mod a paper weight I believe.

Expand  

I think you are correct, IIRC. We don't have recommendations at this time, but we probably should. Let us know what you configure and your rationale if you do.

[TechAngel85]

  On 3/19/2024 at 9:04 PM, MightyCrow said:

What are the recommended MCM settings when using this mod?

Leaving at defaults makes the mod a paper weight I believe.

Expand  

 

  On 3/19/2024 at 9:14 PM, z929669 said:

I think you are correct, IIRC. We don't have recommendations at this time, but we probably should. Let us know what you configure and your rationale if you do.

Expand  

Personally, I set up the magic on a scale. I can't really remember the exact numbers but I want to say it would have been similar to something like: 10-15-25-40-60. For the bashing I set up something much easier. My rational for that is it would be rather easy to bash most of the chests open since most are just wood. So bashing is set up something like: 3-6-10-20-35.

As for the spells, that is up for debate but I think I leave it on Destruction. I can't recall if you can choose the option, but illusion only would probably make the most sense. The weapons option I use all weapons. I don't think Bows should be included, but I don't think there was an option to exclude bows. I can't recall any of the other settings off the top of my head.

[MightyCrow]

To be honest, is this really within the STEP Mandate? It's not Vanilla friendly to unlock with a spell or with bashing as that wasn't what the developer intended. The vanilla way is to lockpick. I put this in the same category of any other mods that would add/change gameplay features. I would personally remove it from the STEP guide.

You could argue the auto lockpicking feature though as this is part of Oblivion, but I think this would be better served with a different mod that only does that.

There are other issues regarding the MCM options not being explained properly, e.g. Heart Beat Script. The MCM option is "Frequency It Fires per Second". Default is 3. Some people in the comments on the mod page have raised concerns over the mods use of scripting.

[Mousetick]

  On 3/20/2024 at 9:27 PM, MightyCrow said:

There are other issues regarding the MCM options not being explained properly, e.g. Heart Beat Script. The MCM option is "Frequency It Fires per Second". Default is 3. Some people in the comments on the mod page have raised concerns over the mods use of scripting.

Expand  

Yes the UI is not the most user-friendly out there, to put it mildly. It's an old mod, back when modding standards and know-how were lower.

The Heart Beat Script option is indeed quite confusing... and its description is wrong. It's not a frequency, it's the inverse: a period, an interval in seconds.

This mod works by detecting the locked container or door closest to the player, if any, and by running a hidden quest on it to handle the possible unlocking done by bashing it or casting a spell. It needs to do it this way because the player doesn't activate the door or container when bashing the lock or casting the spell, so it doesn't know which lock the player is "attacking". It just guesses by selecting the locked container or door closest to the player.

The Heart Beat is how often the hidden unlocking quest is restarted: every N seconds. Every time the hidden quest is restarted, the locked container or door closest, if any, to the player is selected. As time elapses and the player moves about, another lock now closest to the player, may be selected, and so on and so forth, every N seconds.

If you set the Heart Beat value to 3 (the default), the mod will restart its hidden quest every 3 seconds (NOT 3 times per second as the description says). Therefore it will be able to select a new locked container or door closest to the player, every 3 seconds.

If you set the Heart Beat value to 15 (the max), it can select a new locked container or door closest to the player every 15 seconds. If you move fast and try to bash a lock, it may not work (nothing happens when bashing or casting spell) because the hidden quest is still running with another lock you passed by a few seconds ago when the Heart Beat was last triggered, instead of the lock you're now looking at in front of you. You'd need to stand right in front of the lock for at least 15 seconds to make sure the hidden quest has been restarted with the correct, closest lock.

So the 'Heart Beat Script' is essentially a "lock selection refresh timer". Hope that makes sense?

As for this mod's use of scripting, yes it's entirely scripted but it's pretty lightweight. It's idle most of the time and doesn't do anything until the player bashes a lock or casts the unlocking spell on it. The detection and selection of the locked door or container closest to the player is handled natively by the engine, not by scripts. The only potential overhead this mod may have is restarting its hidden quest every N seconds, but it's negligible.

[TechAngel85]

  On 3/20/2024 at 9:27 PM, MightyCrow said:

To be honest, is this really within the STEP Mandate? It's not Vanilla friendly to unlock with a spell or with bashing as that wasn't what the developer intended. The vanilla way is to lockpick. I put this in the same category of any other mods that would add/change gameplay features. I would personally remove it from the STEP guide.

You could argue the auto lockpicking feature though as this is part of Oblivion, but I think this would be better served with a different mod that only does that.

Expand  

The Step Mandate does not prohibit non-vanilla assets, features, mechanics, etc. If it did, then at least 1/3 of the Guide would have to be stripped. So the better question to ask is if it goes to far beyond vanilla to be considered for the Guide? That is a "no", considering it's already included. As for the individual features,

• Bashing - it's logical to assume one could bash open a locked chest so I don't really see an argument against having such a feature. The only thing that Step may want to decide is the best settings for the feature so that it makes sense in the game world. (e.g., a new character shouldn't be able to smash open a mater chest)
• Spell - it's also logical to assume one could use magic to unlock a chest in a game where magic exists. Such is fairly standard for such fantasy worlds; not only that, a spell does actually exist in the Elder Scrolls world so it's also not against lore. Again, the only thing Step may want to do is decide on a best set of settings.
• Auto-picking - I consider this one more of a user preference. Some players may really hate the lock picking feature and may wish to bypass it, as much as possible.

Step encourages customization, so at the end of the day the settings are still up to the player to decide to use for their preferences. One may even skip installing the mod, entirely, since it's not required by anything in the Guide.

[MightyCrow]

  On 4/3/2024 at 7:38 PM, TechAngel85 said:

The Step Mandate does not prohibit non-vanilla assets, features, mechanics, etc. If it did, then at least 1/3 of the Guide would have to be stripped. So the better question to ask is if it goes to far beyond vanilla to be considered for the Guide? That is a "no", considering it's already included. As for the individual features,

• Bashing - it's logical to assume one could bash open a locked chest so I don't really see an argument against having such a feature. The only thing that Step may want to decide is the best settings for the feature so that it makes sense in the game world. (e.g., a new character shouldn't be able to smash open a mater chest)
• Spell - it's also logical to assume one could use magic to unlock a chest in a game where magic exists. Such is fairly standard for such fantasy worlds; not only that, a spell does actually exist in the Elder Scrolls world so it's also not against lore. Again, the only thing Step may want to do is decide on a best set of settings.
• Auto-picking - I consider this one more of a user preference. Some players may really hate the lock picking feature and may wish to bypass it, as much as possible.

Step encourages customization, so at the end of the day the settings are still up to the player to decide to use for their preferences. One may even skip installing the mod, entirely, since it's not required by anything in the Guide.

Expand  

Thanks for your response.

Regarding the vanilla friendly part, I probably could have worded it better. Indeed I felt that this mod strayed too far from vanilla and wasn't up to the quality standards of other mods included.

Bashing - If this was in the game, I'd imagine there should be a chance that you would lose whatever is in the chest. Some things inside the chest are fragile and bashing it to bits is surely going to damage the items inside. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to me to be fair, and cheapens a lockpick/thief build. I think there should be some reward/benefit from the lockpicking skill. An expert thief/lockpicker should be able to carefully open the lock and extract everything inside. I guess for doors it could be different, it would definitely have to be loud though, and alert all others around.

Spell- I wasn't aware that the 'Open' spell exists, now that I am aware of that my view has changed slightly. I am 'open' to the idea of a spell, however, I feel like the implementation could be better. Instead of automatically being granted access to the spell, it should be earnt through a quest or through the mages guild, or bought from a shop. Perhaps there are different versions of the spell that only unlock once you reach a certain level or perhaps it is granted through a perk? Again, perhaps a chance for the spell to go wrong and for the lock to be permanently shut? Just spitting out ideas.

Auto picking- As I said, I am open to this given that it is in Oblivion and is just a lazy way to lockpick where you will lose far more lockpicks. The option should be there for those players who want it.

I like the idea of a baseline and would prefer to have some recommended settings for a lore friendly / vanilla friendly experience.

I am not using the mod personally. I did look at alternatives but I couldn't find one that really did the trick. There was one that I posted here which you can look at in my post.

Maybe I need to try my hand at modding...