Official STEP Lighting Solution

[TechAngel85]

My take.

 

For starters' date=' RLO's lighting is too red. For anything burning to give off light in the red spectrum, it would need to burn at around 800C+, but the breaking down of wood into gasses occurs around 500C. Wood just doesn't burn hot enough to emit light in the red spectrum without help, and it's typically going to be in the upper yellow to lower orange specturm. Candles burn at a significantly lower temperature than wood does, and they will almost always remain in the yellow spectrum, so RLO just isn't realistic from that standpoint. The second issue, is that RLO lighting from windows gives off too much ambient light, such that walls surrounding windows get too much direct light. It's like a light was placed in front of the windows set to flood. And, as has been stated already, the sun rays at night are too blue in spots. I do, however, love the shadows with RLO.

 

As for EL&FX, I find they hit the color temperature practically spot on in the majority of cases. Though I wouldn't recommend it for base step, my favorite currently is in fact RLO+EL&FX.

 

If going with a more Vanilla feel, I'm liking OLSE the best, as I find Relighting Skyrim to be too bright. However, it's also important to note that there is collaboration going on to merge OLSE lighting into Relighting Skyrim, so who knows what the future will bring.[/quote']

Maybe it's just my monitor (re-calibrated it yesterday) but I'm not seeing any reds from RLO. Just a very warm orange (and too warm in some cases). After your post I went back too look at the combination and you're right. The combination does put the lighting closer to the spectrum that it should be but you loose (90% according to RLO) of RLO's effects; however, it does nothing for the spotlighting issues which is so "in you face" it hard for me to look past.

Yes' date=' you've captured some of the problems with RLO there.  There's something about it that just doesn't "look right" to my eyes, even though one can see where it's succeeding.  I also find the contrast much too sharp in some scenes.  I definitely agree that the RS/OLSE project is going to do the best job of satisfying the mandate.[/quote']

I agree here too. For STEP purposes and the Mandate RS is probably the way to go. The others just change way too much.

[stoppingby4now]

For the record, I'm in agreement with a lot of the comments already about not including a lighting solution in base step. Z wants to have something that is Vanilla friendly, and I can see the merit in it, but my take is it will likely cause some frustration in properly handling what to do with actually installing a Lighting/PP pack later on, as a base STEP solution will likely need to be removed.

 

But even in regards to attempting to stick with Vanilla, it's still going to be subjective. Folks are going to have their own pick, and who knows how many won't install an approved STEP mod because they don't agree with it.

[toshaka]

Agree with you there s4n

As I dont even have all base stuff of step installed, purely cos I dont really see the need for it.

I did to see and test it tho, but I rather keep my list to a minimum + my own aditions like body mods etc.

I do have al texture mods tho and fixes.

 

I have a fully calibrated IPS monitor and I still see RLO as a bit too much to the orange so yeah I see all of your points of tech and s4n

[stoppingby4now]

Hence why RLO is still not finished.

They are half way, they only released it to keep people quiet and find more bugs etc.

Tho s4n has some good points I dont agree completely.

Its a bit too much warmth true, but I dont see it as red spectrum more yellow/orange, maybe a bit too orange.

My take.

 

For starters, RLO's lighting is too red. For anything burning to give off light in the red spectrum, it would need to burn at around 800C+, but the breaking down of wood into gasses occurs around 500C. Wood just doesn't burn hot enough to emit light in the red spectrum without help, and it's typically going to be in the upper yellow to lower orange specturm. Candles burn at a significantly lower temperature than wood does, and they will almost always remain in the yellow spectrum, so RLO just isn't realistic from that standpoint. The second issue, is that RLO lighting from windows gives off too much ambient light, such that walls surrounding windows get too much direct light. It's like a light was placed in front of the windows set to flood. And, as has been stated already, the sun rays at night are too blue in spots. I do, however, love the shadows with RLO.

 

As for EL&FX, I find they hit the color temperature practically spot on in the majority of cases. Though I wouldn't recommend it for base step, my favorite currently is in fact RLO+EL&FX.

 

If going with a more Vanilla feel, I'm liking OLSE the best, as I find Relighting Skyrim to be too bright. However, it's also important to note that there is collaboration going on to merge OLSE lighting into Relighting Skyrim, so who knows what the future will bring.

Maybe it's just my monitor (re-calibrated it yesterday) but I'm not seeing any reds from RLO. Just a very warm orange (and too warm in some cases). After your post I went back too look at the combination and you're right. The combination does put the lighting closer to the spectrum that it should be but you loose (90% according to RLO) of RLO's effects; however, it does nothing for the spotlighting issues which is so "in you face" it hard for me to look past.

Concerning the light from RLO, I can see some Orange in there, but it's come out as light would be in the upper Orange spectrum, bleeding over into the lower end of the Red spectrum. Either way, still not realistic.

 

In regards to RLO not being completed yet, the biggest thing IMO that would prevent it from being a candidate in this regard, is that we are missing Vision Lighting. That may be able to help with the color problem.

[toshaka]

Agree

 

Hope they come out with that soon tho, but with Dragonborn beeing out now etc.

May make things delay a bit, even with some current mods.

[TechAngel85]

For the record, I'm in agreement with a lot of the comments already about not including a lighting solution in base step. Z wants to have something that is Vanilla friendly, and I can see the merit in it, but my take is it will likely cause some frustration in properly handling what to do with actually installing a Lighting/PP pack later on, as a base STEP solution will likely need to be removed.

 

But even in regards to attempting to stick with Vanilla, it's still going to be subjective. Folks are going to have their own pick, and who knows how many won't install an approved STEP mod because they don't agree with it.

I'm glad someone brought this up because I've been think it the whole time. So many modders follow STEP as a "step-by-step" guide and don't deviate from it (especially newcomers) that I see some potential troubleshooting headaches coming our way from this. It's great if they ignore the packs that are coming because then they get an even better looking game just from following STEP, but if not...troubleshooting city.

 

This is why I mentioned earlier that I had thought this stuff was decided on to be put off until the next release to get this one out the door. We keep adding and adding and adding...this release is never going to be finished or it at least will deserve a bump up to "2.3.0".

[stoppingby4now]

To expand yet again, either RS or OLSE (I personally lean towards this one) would be my picks for an enhanced Vanilla experience. But, with the current in-progress nature of all of the solutions, I have to say even if we do include one, this version of STEP is not the one to do it in. Also agree for the reasons that tech brought up.

[z929669]

OK, I think we have sufficiently chewed this up enough. I agree with the aesthetic remarks of s4n on all counts. I also see now that our little discussion has basically solidifed our original intention:

 

No lighting/weather/PP solutions should be included in Core STEP for 2.2.1 :(

 

I really wanted a broader conversation on the topic with many more viewpoints, each being challenged in some way. Clearly, there is not 'complete' lighting solution, and each one of them breaks or takes away something in addition to what it gives ... at least at this point.

 

I have high hopes for Relighting Skyrim, RLO and CoT v3.0 ... and EL&FX if they remove some of their stylistic assertion. (thanks for all the good screens s4n!).

 

Let this thread serve as an example of a properly focused and debated topic in the "Current Release Dev" forum

 

I am going to update the OP as being "resolved" if I can get the lot of you to confirm that we postpone the lighting solution for 2.2.1 and foreseeable future.

[MontyMM]

I agree with the postponement. I just don't think there is a solution for vanilla lighting that I would recommend to anyone at this time. You may have stated already somewhere, but can I ask why ENBs are off the table? I would have thought that the nearest thing to a solid enhancement of vanilla, which would find consensus, is Skyrealism ENB.

 

EDIT: I see S4N has gone on a mod posting rampage - are you preparing for a release?

[TechAngel85]

I agree with postponing it until all the mods mature more and are complete. Postponing it would give them time to do so while still allowing us to push this release out. It would be a great idea to suggest the authors check out this thread. STEP is fairly well respected so I don't seem any harm in our suggestions for each mod. It'll only provide them better feedback for improving their mods.

I agree with the postponement. I just don't think there is a solution for vanilla lighting that I would recommend to anyone at this time. You may have stated already somewhere, but can I ask why ENBs are off the table? I would have thought that the nearest thing to a solid enhancement of vanilla, which would find consensus, is Skyrealism ENB.

 

EDIT: I see S4N has gone on a mod posting rampage - are you preparing for a release?

I would agree that recommending a Baseline ENB wouldn't have the same outcome. I don't think that any could debate that SkyRealism - Vanilla Preset isn't the best option for STEP as it is...Vanilla...just with the added benefits of an ENB. Though the same troubleshooting issues could exists and it definitely shouldn't be core. However, I don't see an ENB being added at this time either.

 

I think we're close now to a release. We (s4n mainly) have just been moving the included STEP mods over into the Anthology forum seeing that the mod list is pretty much locked in. (He is on a role)

[z929669]

I agree with the postponement. I just don't think there is a solution for vanilla lighting that I would recommend to anyone at this time. You may have stated already somewhere, but can I ask why ENBs are off the table? I would have thought that the nearest thing to a solid enhancement of vanilla, which would find consensus, is Skyrealism ENB.

 

EDIT: I see S4N has gone on a mod posting rampage - are you preparing for a release?

I agree that SkyRealism vanilla is the way to go for ENB... and it may even be the best option. I am not against ENB for Core STEP, but it would seem that this should be coupled with lighting and weather ideally (which adds too many variables to the mix). Seems like lighting is the first layer.

 

We are updating the Anthology is all. The release is basically ready now, but for some final decisions and testing relating to Dawnguard Dragonborn. That probably realistically adds at least a week or two to release. Bound to be a ton of mod updates.

[TechAngel85]

I agree with the postponement. I just don't think there is a solution for vanilla lighting that I would recommend to anyone at this time. You may have stated already somewhere, but can I ask why ENBs are off the table? I would have thought that the nearest thing to a solid enhancement of vanilla, which would find consensus, is Skyrealism ENB.

 

EDIT: I see S4N has gone on a mod posting rampage - are you preparing for a release?

I agree that SkyRealism vanilla is the way to go for ENB... and it may even be the best option. I am not against ENB for Core STEP, but it would seem that this should be coupled with lighting and weather ideally (which adds too many variables to the mix). Seems like lighting is the first layer.

 

We are updating the Anthology is all. The release is basically ready now, but for some final decisions and testing relating to Dawnguard. That probably realistically adds at least a week or two to release. Bound to be a ton of mod updates.

 

ENB could be the first layer seeing that the vanilla preset doesn't effect the lighting at all so whatever lighting mod is chosen, ENB would have no effect on it.

 

Do you mean "Dragonborn"?

[z929669]

 

I agree with the postponement. I just don't think there is a solution for vanilla lighting that I would recommend to anyone at this time. You may have stated already somewhere, but can I ask why ENBs are off the table? I would have thought that the nearest thing to a solid enhancement of vanilla, which would find consensus, is Skyrealism ENB.

 

EDIT: I see S4N has gone on a mod posting rampage - are you preparing for a release?

I agree that SkyRealism vanilla is the way to go for ENB... and it may even be the best option. I am not against ENB for Core STEP, but it would seem that this should be coupled with lighting and weather ideally (which adds too many variables to the mix). Seems like lighting is the first layer.

 

We are updating the Anthology is all. The release is basically ready now, but for some final decisions and testing relating to Dawnguard. That probably realistically adds at least a week or two to release. Bound to be a ton of mod updates.

ENB could be the first layer seeing that the vanilla preset doesn't effect the lighting at all so whatever lighting mod is chosen, ENB would have no effect on it.

 

Do you mean "Dragonborn"?

Yes "Dragonborn" ... corrected post

[Wanderer]

just wondering, maybe stupid question, but where did RCRN go in this solution selection? sure, RCRN is not exactly lightning mod, but it definitely changes visuals alot, both in and outside. now i am more interested with the "outside" as if you leave CoT out, there will be no other weather mod. and if (and i think it should be) there will be any weather mod included, in case of RCRN it will have significant impact on visuals outcome. not sure about CoT cause i havent played it much, i was always sticked to RCRN...

[rpsgc]

Realistic Lighting Overhaul covers the weather too.