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Dynamic Distant Objects LOD - DynDOLOD 2.18

sheson

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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DynDOLOD 2.18 condensed update post

 

What’s New?

 

This is a simple maintenance update to address a bug and add updates for a couple mods.

See Full update post for 2.xx update instructions

 

 

Some Assembly Required

 

Caranthir Tower Reborn - DynDOLOD Resources contains an optimized full model of the tower for a little bit more performance friendly Neverfade LOD. Mesh rules also add LOD for the stone dragon and the portal building.

Optional: to sync concealing/revealing the tower from far distances install and overwrite the two original scripts with the ones from DynDOLOD Patches.

 

Verified working out of the box - included rules

Trollstigen

 

Verified working out of the box - added/updated meshes and/or textures

Killian Castle

Lyngwi - A Nordic Village

 

Fixes include

Fixed sometimes not falling back to billboard when generating ultra trees by Monobloc

 

[spoiler=Changelog DynDOLOD 2.18]DynDOLOD.exe - fixed sometimes not falling back to billboard when generating ultra trees

DynDOLOD.exe - add the worldspace Master as activate parent for Never Fade LOD/Full LOD objects

DynDOLOD.exe - set VWD on original base records used for dynamic LOD only as well

TexGen.exe - sync updates with DynDOLOD.exe

TexGen.exe - fixed generation of dlc01castlefortlod.dds

TexGen.exe - generation for impwood01lod.dds

Papyrus Scripts - activate worldspace Master in case the activate all function is called

DynDOLOD_Manual.html - updated compatibility information for several mods

DynDOLOD Resources - updated/added meshes/textures for better compatibility with mods

DynDOLOD Patches - added script patches for Caranthir Tower Reborn

 

 

See Full update post for full changelog, fully detailed update instructions and updated compatibility information for Skryim mods.

 

DynDOLOD 2.17

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sheson
sheson

Just like that. Overwrite the original scripts with the one from the patches.

sheson
sheson

Oh boy. Are you sure when you generated LOD that "Generate tree LOD" box was checked?   Vanilla tree LOD has no such thing as LOD level 8 or 16. Vanilla tree LOD only has LOD level 4 which draws LOD t

sheson
sheson

Existing tamrieltreelod.dds does not matter. You need to install a billboard for every tree base record that you want to have LOD for. You only require billboards for plugins that add or update tree b

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/27/2016 at 11:07 AM, dunc001 said:

Well I could but I don't think it would be much use to you unless I also load up my various merged plugins which are still masters to DynDOLOD at that point.

Consider it last resort, but I can still look at the esp data, even if masters are missing just to see if anything sticks out.

If you clean masters and supply the merged_map.txt files for the masters in use even better.

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obdown666 Watcher

obdown666

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Sheson,

Using Ultra Trees with an ongoing trial and error to find the least memory impact.  I really like the Great Forest of Whiterun Mod so I have a lot of trees.

I use dynamic but unskinned trees in the INIs.  I have removed all tree edits (textures/meshes) and only care about two things - low memory impact and zero pop-in.   I use 128 bit settings in teslodgen and dyndolod and thats fine for me.  Everything works well but the filesize is roughly 3.5G.

DynDOLOD_TES5.ini  Ultra Tree Settings are as follows:

IgnoreTrees=0
TreeLOD=0
TreeFullFallBack=0 (may have to change to 1 if mod added trees cause a problem not sure yet)
FlagTrees=0
 

Catch-All Tree Rule:

LOD 4            LOD 8       LOD 16     VWD        Grid           Reference

Static LOD4   Billboard   Billboard   Checked   Far LOD     Unchanged

 

Three questions if I may: 

1.)  Given use of Ultra Trees, how can I NOT have Tree LOD show up on the World Maps? 

Since using Forest of Whiterun I have way too many trees and cant see the roads.  The textures are too dark and the map is just plain cluttered and unappealing.  I use Qualty World Map and HQ 3D Map and use Sols/Wyrmstooth/Falskaar addons if that matters. 

 

2.) Do I still have to run Teslodgen first and leave the output active in the load order since I noticed in your .ini file you flagged teslodgen to run.

 

3.) Anything i can do short of generating my own billboards to reduce the filesize?

 

Thanks very much for Teslodgen and all of your works.

Edited by obdown666
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dunc001 General

dunc001

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OK, another night on this and I might be getting somewhere - although I don't understand it!  After much testing and editing of DynDOLOD.esp itself without anything conclusive I end up with this summary - if I have both Holds.esp and DynDOLOD.esp active in my load order I have the CTD.  If I disable one or the other the game loads fine.  And it makes no difference whether Holds is included in the DynDOLOD generation or not, and by that I mean if I exclude it from DynDOLOD generation and try and activate both together I still get the CTD.  Which brings it back to is it a memory issue?  But if so then why am I seeing absolutely no indication in SPM prior to the crash, not even a slight ramping?  Believe it or not I have had heavier load orders before which haven't suffered with this - at one point I had full SRLE Extended plus REGS plus Rigmor plus Summerset plus other worldspaces, and it never once crashed with DynDOLOD.  So why am I getting this now?  I am about at the limit of what I can test and look for.  If you have any way of getting in touch with Meh then the crash is always exactly the same, completely repeatable, and doesn't alter regardless of what I have active or not each time:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

This is with a fresh run of TexGen/DynDOLOD running generation only for Tamriel, nothing else.

Edited by dunc001
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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/28/2016 at 2:45 AM, obdown666 said:

Sheson,

Using Ultra Trees with an ongoing trial and error to find the least memory impact.  I really like the Great Forest of Whiterun Mod so I have a lot of trees.

I use dynamic but unskinned trees in the INIs.  I have removed all tree edits (textures/meshes) and only care about two things - low memory impact and zero pop-in.   I use 128 bit settings in teslodgen and dyndolod and thats fine for me.  Everything works well but the filesize is roughly 3.5G.

DynDOLOD_TES5.ini  Ultra Tree Settings are as follows:

IgnoreTrees=0

TreeLOD=0

TreeFullFallBack=0 (may have to change to 1 if mod added trees cause a problem not sure yet)

FlagTrees=0

 

Catch-All Tree Rule:

LOD 4            LOD 8       LOD 16     VWD        Grid           Reference

Static LOD4   Billboard   Billboard   Checked   Far LOD     Unchanged

 

Three questions if I may: 

1.)  Given use of Ultra Trees, how can I NOT have Tree LOD show up on the World Maps? 

Since using Forest of Whiterun I have way too many trees and cant see the roads.  The textures are too dark and the map is just plain cluttered and unappealing.  I use Qualty World Map and HQ 3D Map and use Sols/Wyrmstooth/Falskaar addons if that matters. 

 

2.) Do I still have to run Teslodgen first and leave the output active in the load order since I noticed in your .ini file you flagged teslodgen to run.

 

3.) Anything i can do short of generating my own billboards to reduce the filesize?

 

Thanks very much for Teslodgen and all of your works.

1) Upcoming version 2.19 will create static LOD billboards matching the lighting of original tree LOD better.

To not have trees on the map either set LOD 16 to empty or turn off all static LOD on the map by setting in Skyrim.ini

[MapMenu]

uLockedObjectMapLOD=32

 

2) You only need to run TexGen.exe / DynDOLOD.exe. There is no need to run TES5LODGen.exe.

 

3) You can not optimize billboards for LOD8/16 any further. But you could optimize the 3D static LOD trees (the ones like Meshes\DynDOLOD\lod\trees\treepineforest01passthru_lod.nif) used in LOD4 by trying to remove a couple branches. But then they won't match as nicely to te full model. Check DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\cache\DynDOLOD_TES5_tamriel_mesh_count.txt for which tree is used the most and try to optimize those first.

One trick maybe to not set a few specific trees to not use 3D static LOD but a billboard instead. So there will be some closeup LOD trees using billboard, bit since they are mixed with the 3D LOD trees you may not notice.

  On 9/28/2016 at 8:35 AM, dunc001 said:

OK, another night on this and I might be getting somewhere - although I don't understand it!  After much testing and editing of DynDOLOD.esp itself without anything conclusive I end up with this summary - if I have both Holds.esp and DynDOLOD.esp active in my load order I have the CTD.  If I disable one or the other the game loads fine.  And it makes no difference whether Holds is included in the DynDOLOD generation or not, and by that I mean if I exclude it from DynDOLOD generation and try and activate both together I still get the CTD.  Which brings it back to is it a memory issue?  But if so then why am I seeing absolutely no indication in SPM prior to the crash, not even a slight ramping?  Believe it or not I have had heavier load orders before which haven't suffered with this - at one point I had full SRLE Extended plus REGS plus Rigmor plus Summerset plus other worldspaces, and it never once crashed with DynDOLOD.  So why am I getting this now?  I am about at the limit of what I can test and look for.  If you have any way of getting in touch with Meh then the crash is always exactly the same, completely repeatable, and doesn't alter regardless of what I have active or not each time:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

This is with a fresh run of TexGen/DynDOLOD running generation only for Tamriel, nothing else.

 

Can you let me know the exact version / installation options of Holds and any patches you are using, so i can test myself?

Is any of the used plugins report any error at in xEdit?

Edited by sheson
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dunc001 General

dunc001

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  On 9/28/2016 at 8:56 AM, sheson said:

 

Can you let me know the exact version / installation options of Holds and any patches you are using, so i can test myself?

Latest version - 0.0.3

Patches used: USLEEP, VIGILANT, The Notice Board, NSUTR, Interesting NPCs, Helgen Reborn, Frostfall, ELFX, ELFX Exterior, Bijin AIO, Arissa, Falskaar

 

I found errors in several of the patches BTW, Holds.esp formIDs weren't forwarding correctly in several patches, Dawnstar being renamed DawnstarDUPLICATE by the 3DNPC patch, etc.  I fixed all of these, and as per the Holds OP I left the patches (merged) deactivated while running DynDOLOD generation.

 

I have re-downloaded Holds and the assets in case it's a corrupt asset issue. I'm fairly sure it will be an issue on my end and that you won't be able to reproduce it.

 

2 questions - does Skyrim have some sort of 'cap' on the number of records it can handle that wouldn't necessarily manifest as an OOM issue?

- Is Meh likely to be able to tell us what type of crash the address points at?

Edited by dunc001
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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/28/2016 at 9:12 AM, dunc001 said:

Latest version - 0.0.3

Patches used: USLEEP, VIGILANT, The Notice Board, NSUTR, Interesting NPCs, Helgen Reborn, Frostfall, ELFX, ELFX Exterior, Bijin AIO, Arissa, Falskaar

 

I found errors in several of the patches BTW, Holds.esp formIDs weren't forwarding correctly in several patches, Dawnstar being renamed DawnstarDUPLICATE by the 3DNPC patch, etc.  I fixed all of these, and as per the Holds OP I left the patches (merged) deactivated while running DynDOLOD generation.

 

I have re-downloaded Holds and the assets in case it's a corrupt asset issue. I'm fairly sure it will be an issue on my end and that you won't be able to reproduce it.

 

2 questions - does Skyrim have some sort of 'cap' on the number of records it can handle that wouldn't necessarily manifest as an OOM issue?

- Is Meh likely to be able to tell us what type of crash the address points at?

Skyrim works with 32 bit FormIDs. So it can handle 4294967295 records. Memory should always get you first.

Meh probably could probably have a look what kind of function is at that address. I have long retired my virtual machines debugging setup.

 

My gut feeling is either a deleted record or a record referencing something that is missing, or navmeshes causing a problem.

 

That the available patches have errors and need to be disabled is a red flag. I will have a look and see if I can find anything.

Using the (merged) patches or not makes no difference if I understand you right?

 

Vigilant is a plugin that DynDOLOD ignores. You could do a test by editing \DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_TES5.ini and removing ", Vigilant" from the IgnoreModFileName= or remove Vigilant from the load order while generating.

 

Whatever plugins were not part of the generation run should probably be sorted after DynDOLOD.esp when starting the game.

Edited by sheson
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dunc001 General

dunc001

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  On 9/28/2016 at 11:20 AM, sheson said:

Skyrim works with 32 bit FormIDs. So it can handle 4294967295 records. Memory should always get you first.

Meh probably could probably have a look what kind of function is at that address. I have long retired my virtual machines debugging setup.

 

My gut feeling is either a deleted record or a record referencing something that is missing, or navmeshes causing a problem.

 

That the available patches have errors and need to be disabled is a red flag. I will have a look and see if I can find anything.

Did you every try starting the game without the (merged) patches?

 

Vigilant is a plugin that DynDOLOD ignores. You could do a test by editing \DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_TES5.ini and removing ", Vigilant" from the IgnoreModFileName= or remove Vigilant from the load order while generating.

 

Whatever plugins were not part of the generation run should probably be sorted after DynDOLOD.esp when starting the game.

Yes, tried starting the game in all combinations - Holds/Hold Patches/DynDOLOD; Holds/DynDOLOD; Holds/Holds Patches; Holds - loads fine with Holds and/or Holds Patches as long as DynDOLOD is not active.

 

I can't really sort anything after DynDOLOD as most are masters to either my CR and compatibility patches or to BP/ASIS/Grimy/DSR.

 

VIGILANT has been in the load order for a while, before the recent addition of Holds, and hasn't ever been a problem with DynDOLOD before.

 

What does DynDOLOD have to do with navmesh BTW?  Not sure why this would cause an issue when the complete load order loads up fine otherwise?

Edited by dunc001
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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/28/2016 at 12:33 PM, dunc001 said:

Yes, tried starting the game in all combinations - Holds/Hold Patches/DynDOLOD; Holds/DynDOLOD; Holds/Holds Patches; Holds - loads fine with Holds and/or Holds Patches as long as DynDOLOD is not active.

 

I can't really sort anything after DynDOLOD as most are masters to either my CR and compatibility patches or to BP/ASIS/Grimy/DSR.

 

VIGILANT has been in the load order for a while, before the recent addition of Holds, and hasn't ever been a problem with DynDOLOD before.

 

What does DynDOLOD have to do with navmesh BTW?  Not sure why this would cause an issue when the complete load order loads up fine otherwise?

DynDOLOD has nothing to do with navmeshes. However some CTDs are caused by deleted records or nav mesh problems.

The problem may only happen because DynDOLOD.esp has data in the same cell where another mod has such broken data, even if the data is not in DynDOLOD.esp.

 

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dunc001 General

dunc001

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OK, well I'll spend some time trawling through the records in Holds.esp and maybe adjusting load order to see if I can turn anything up.  Still not really getting why this would be the case if it all runs OK when DDL isn't in the load order though.  Surely if DDL is forwarding the last override in each case then this will still be the same whether DDL is present or not?

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/28/2016 at 3:03 PM, dunc001 said:

OK, well I'll spend some time trawling through the records in Holds.esp and maybe adjusting load order to see if I can turn anything up.  Still not really getting why this would be the case if it all runs OK when DDL isn't in the load order though.  Surely if DDL is forwarding the last override in each case then this will still be the same whether DDL is present or not?

I don't think it has anything to do with data from last overwrite being carried forward or not. I have generated with 0.0.3 Holds.esp complete with no patches but with the mods you listed you use patches for. One time holds being sorted by LOOT and one time with it being last. Never have a problem using new or coc. Seems to me there might be a third thing involved somehow. The CTD when clicking new can reportedly be a script problem as well, even harder to track down.

 

My question now would be, if you generate with Legendary, USLEEP, Holds only, does that work?

Edited by sheson
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dunc001 General

dunc001

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OK, I'll try this evening. In the meantime if you have a hotline to Meh it would be extremely useful to get anything he can provide on the crash address...

 

BTW, thank you for taking so much time and interest in my most unusual of issues.  It goes above and beyond [tips hat]

Edited by dunc001
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dunc001 General

dunc001

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So I can confirm that DynDOLOD itself is not the issue.  Nor it would appear is Holds.  It seems that just as per THIS thread over on reddit I actually am hitting some kind of ceiling.  Here are the results of the past hour of testing (DynDOLOD Tamriel only):

 

Full load order including Holds and DynDOLOD - CTD

Full load order without DynDOLOD - New game starts fine

Full load order including Holds and DynDOLOD, deactivated Wheels of Lull, Forgotten City and Dreamborne Isle - New game starts fine

As above but reactivated Wheels of Lull and Forgotten City - New game starts fine

As above but reactivated Dreamborne Isle (so full load order again) - CTD

Deactivate Wheels of Lull and Forgotten City, leaving Holds, Dreamborne and DynDOLOD active - New game starts fine

 

I could keep testing activating and deactivating other large mods but I don't think there is any need.  This appears to confirm the suspicion that there is some kind of arbitrary limit beyond which, without any hint of OOM, the engine just doesn't want to play.

 

So whilst this is frustrating it does provide a simple solution.  I will just remove three or four of the big expansion mods to give myself plenty of headroom and play them on a seperate build.

 

Sorry that I have taken so much of your time on this.  I am just glad, nay delighted, that I can actually get on with playing with both Holds and DynDOLOD active!

Edited by dunc001
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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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  On 9/28/2016 at 6:44 PM, dunc001 said:

So I can confirm that DynDOLOD itself is not the issue.  Nor it would appear is Holds.  It seems that just as per THIS thread over on reddit I actually am hitting some kind of ceiling.  Here are the results of the past hour of testing (DynDOLOD Tamriel only):

 

Full load order including Holds and DynDOLOD - CTD

Full load order without DynDOLOD - New game starts fine

Full load order including Holds and DynDOLOD, deactivated Wheels of Lull, Forgotten City and Dreamborne Isle - New game starts fine

As above but reactivated Wheels of Lull and Forgotten City - New game starts fine

As above but reactivated Dreamborne Isle (so full load order again) - CTD

Deactivate Wheels of Lull and Forgotten City, leaving Holds, Dreamborne and DynDOLOD active - New game starts fine

 

I could keep testing activating and deactivating other large mods but I don't think there is any need.  This appears to confirm the suspicion that there is some kind of arbitrary limit beyond which, without any hint of OOM, the engine just doesn't want to play.

 

So whilst this is frustrating it does provide a simple solution.  I will just remove three or four of the big expansion mods to give myself plenty of headroom and play them on a seperate build.

 

Sorry that I have taken so much of your time on this.  I am just glad, nay delighted, that I can actually get on with playing with both Holds and DynDOLOD active!

That is interesting, though on the r post they talk about another address, but otherwise I do agree. If you can just remove any mod of a certain size to make it load the has to be some kind of limit for some type of data the load order is reaching. I guess we will have to wait for Skyrim SE + some undetermined time for mods to catch up to see if we can get around the issue. I wonder if it has to with a max limit of data per worldspace, since you reported removing references from the world would make it load.

 

Don't worry about my time. These kind of problems always peek my interest...  in the end though it is a lot of poking in the dark.

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Sundder Citizen

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Hi Sheson, you might remember me as the guy who was having z-fighting problems with the bridges around Whiterun with DynDOLOD 2.10 (truns out I was also having a couple of out-of-place floating window problems, but version 2.15 fixed all that and is working triple A+++!). Well, I'm also the one who posted about THAT issue (and initially HERE). Aside from it not occurring at the same memory address as with dunc, it does seem to be the same issue, and irony of ironies, the very first time I hit this CTD myself it was also as a result of turning on DynDOLOD. Mind you, it didn't take me long to figure out that the relationship between DynDOLOD and the CTD was purely circumstantial​: DynDOLOD just happen to be the mod that pushed my setup over the edge because it seems to contribute significantly to the "content" (FormIDs???) load that causes this CTD and ​it was the last thing I installed ​while "flirting with the edge." I had just come out of something like this with the String Count issue and the techniques I used to figure out that the String Count issue was non-mod specific also immediately showed this CTD was not directly related to DynDOLOD...which is why I never brought it to your attention.

 

However...this test dunc did is...well I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but it seems like it could be a really useful hint as to the root cause of the problem. I'm referring to this:

 

"Then started reducing by halfs, which took forever at 8 minutes a time to xEdit/save/load game/crash.  I finally got it down to what I thought was a range of 256, then 128, 64, 32, 16...and finally no crash.  So I added back in the last 8 records I'd removed to confirm the range of records containing the issue and it bloody loaded!  So I added a hundred or so more records back in and it still loaded!  Adding more back in I could induce the crash again but I now have no idea what's going on!"

 

These records dunc was removing, these are Activator, Moveable Static, Tree, Static, etc. records he was removing from the DynDOLOD.esp? Until he was finally able to start a game?

 

Right now, the only bell this rings is that bug that finally stopped the Skyrim MERP project dead in its tracks: the TESV engine couldn't deal with any activators, containers, etc. that were placed out further than 64 cells from the map origin. Not saying this is that bug of course, but maybe positioning isn't the only constraint on these FormIDs?

 

So, anyway, I guess I'm not making a very strong case for getting any assistance with this seeing as I'm corroborating that this is NOT a DynDOLOD issue...but hey, look what can I say? My GF makes some awesome apple pie! Or apple crumble! With or without cinnamon? Strawberry rhubarb, maybe?

 

Haven't head a peep from Meh either (can't say I blame the guy). But as I said in my r post, with Crash Fixes making heavily modded games actually very playable and tools for merging mods becoming more widespread this isn't the last we're going to see of this issue.

 

I knew it would come to this one day. I knew! And no one believed me. (O.k., sorry!)

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