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Giving it a shot again...

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Aight.. after having cooled down with a good night's sleep, I'm thinking about doing the install again from scratch.


During my install I will highlight the sections I find troublesome, difficult to understand, could be understood in more than 1 way, while also suggesting edits to the wiki in regards to white space, readability etc, in a way to hopefully reduce problems for other users of Kelmych's awesome work.

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1st order of business.

In the write up of "What this guide is still lacking" we have this notice:

In order to keep this guide from being exceedingly long (or perhaps even more exceedingly long) the instructions for each mod are usually fairly short. It's important for successful use of a mod to read any readme files included with mods (sadly not all of the mods include readme files), and the description page at the mod download site. This guide, and the other STEP guides, don't try to duplicate the detailed material in readme files or description pages.

 Red emphasis is mine.
Does this mean that in order to install Clear and Present Danger (CPD from now on) correctly,  requires me to read and follow the readme's and other Mod Author (MA) information giving on the Nexus pages?!? If so, this kinda invalidates an INSTALL guide. Every step necessary for a successful install guide, should be in said guide.
If the red emphasis is only to underline that to use the mod in game (hotkeys, quest order and what not) then I recommend a re-write of the notice to:

In order to keep this guide from being exceedingly long, the instructions for each mod are usually fairly short. Mods usually have readme files included or they will have a description at the mod download site. You do not need to know this information to install the mod correctly, but it's advised to familiarize yourself with it to use the mod properly after installed.

This guide don't try to duplicate the detailed material in readme files or description pages.

Edited by JUNKdeLUXE
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Pre-Installation Checklist



For users with Windows 10 and Fallout 3 Game of the Year (Steam Version), the Fallout Launcher won't generate Fallout.ini (and thus you can't run the game and/or run the Games for Windows Live Disabler as it needs the Fallout.ini).



  1. Copy Fallout_default.ini from your F03 game directory to your %USERPROFILE%\Documents\My games\Fallout3  folder
  2. Rename the copied file to fallout.ini
  3. Download and run Games for Windows Live Disabler

This fixes the problems with Fallout not being able to start properly for setting up your initial ini files etc.

Edited by JUNKdeLUXE
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 Generate Tags for Wrye Bash

  • Author: fireundubh
  • Version: ?
  • Requirements: xEdit utility from FO4Edit PreRelease Alpha mod (FO4Edit renamed xEdit as mentioned above), mtefunctions.pas script from TES5EditScripts
  • Fallout NV Equivalent: the same scripts work for Fallout 3, Fallout NV, TES4, and TES5 (but not Fallout 4 yet)
  • Notes: This xEdit script generates bash tags for a plugin and optionally writes the tags into the plugin header. The resulting tags need manual review to make sure they are appropriate for the mod. If the tags are written into the header LOOT will not be able to detect plugin versions that haven't been cleaned, so clean each plugin before running this script if the tags are written to the header.
  • Installation: Download the xedit-scripts-master.zip file shown on the page (use the Download ZIP button). Extract the files, and copy the files in the all folder and the libfolder into the Edit Scripts folder in the folder containing xEdit.exe.


Red emphasis is mine.


Are there any documentation on what bash tags are appropriate for various mods or types of mods? If not, is this trial and error or only for advanced users?


If it's only for advanced users and/or testing, a note about this should be added. If average or novice modders should be able to use this valuable tool, information on how to use it properly should be added.

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Just a pet peeve of mine, but to me an install guide should be short, precise, have no redundant info and easy to read/follow.


Here is an example of when I don't feel this guide is:




  • Author: LOOT Team
  • Version: v0.8.1
  • InstallationLOOT Installation Video (outdated since LOOT 0.7 was released)
  • Notes: Mod Organizer has a sort button that uses LOOT, but this mod is still required. The version in MO is v0.5 which provides most of the functionality of the later versions. LOOT 0.7 and later versions provide a much more useful GUI than previous versions.


I don't need to know about how earlier versions were working or the changes from 1 version to another. And in continuation of this:




LOOT autodetection doesn't always work correctly. As mentioned above in the Mod Organizer installation instructions, when adding LOOT to the Mod Organizer Third Part Programs it's a good idea to include --game=Fallout3 in the Arguments field so LOOT is setup for Fallout 3 (the equivalent of this should also be done for any other game using LOOT).

There are additional setup instructions for this utility that will be carried out in the Setting up Mod Organizer section below.

Originally BOSS v3.0, but it is so different that a new name was required.


Here my mind (and subsequently my page as I'm scrolling) jumps back to a previous step. This step was not something that was important to my current step (the installation of LOOT) and as I read further it seems as if my current step will be completed in a later step. Also, I don't find it important to know what LOOT was called before, unless you would also support BOSS (which I guess you don't). If you need LOOT and not BOSS, no need to mention an earlier branch.


Had it been me I would have changed this section to only read:



The installation of LOOT will be completed in the Setting up Mod Organizer section below.



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  • Installation: Download v1.3beta2.7z . Extract the files from the archive into the Fallout 3 goty folder, NOT into the Data folder. The src folder and text files are not needed.

There are no v1.3beta2.7z files.
There are 2 other files available though.
fose_v1_2_beta2.7z    this is the current stable version
fose_v1_3_beta.7z     this is the current beta version
I have no idea what to install.

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All the comments in this thread have been addressed in a guide update except the pre-installation checklist comment. Would it make sense to run fINIp3 early vs. the steps you suggest (in which case the order of when it is run it will be changed), or are the steps you suggest also needed for Windows 10?


The creating bashed patch section you don't like has been in the process of a larger change for a while; the plan is to move a lot of that section to a new page and add a table (3 columns) of plugins and recommended tags. I haven't had time to build the page with a table yet.


Yes, it takes experience with the game to decide which bash tags are appropriate (this is true for all games that used these).  In general the problem are the small mods that add items or modify stats since many of them don't use values or item models that are compatible with the main mods in the game. I mentioned some example in other threads a few months ago. The Puce Moose mods are another example of these; some (but not all) of its tags need to be removed since the object values aren't always consistent with FWE.


One paragraph in that section is about lock times. Fallout 3 game engine uses these for plugin order; MO hides most of this. The Skyrim game engine uses the newer method of setting plugin order. Users have asked about these for FO3.

File time values are unfortunately important whenever the Creation Kit (TES) or GECK (Fallout) are used, even in Skyrim. Wrye Bash/Flash are used to modify these so CK or GECK can be used. Even if you are not creating new plugins, the CK/GECK is needed when merging plugins if two or more plugins include Navmesh objects.

That paragraph will eventually be moved.


For fose you want the Current beta version: v1.3 b2. The file that is then downloaded is fose_v1_3_beta2.7z.

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Hey Kelmych,


sorry for all my spamming :) I'm adding "topics" as I encounter them.


Having just done the fINIp3 (I'm still in the process of the installation procedure), it could be moved. On top of my head I think this would require changes to other sections that also mention the ini files and changing/copying/backup these. But as this is still fairly early in the guide, I don't think it would be too difficult to ensure no redundancies.


Sounds great that the bashed patch section is in for an update. I've finally gotten "some" understanding to xEdit (been modding Skyrim for some time now) but bashed patches, and bash tags are still very much alien to me, not knowing what they do and how I can "mold" the experience. When it comes to bash tools I just follow the steps and cross fingers :)


My earlier mentions regarding the lock times was mostly just a jab on how this was a fun/strange way to do things, but if it works, it works! ;) I'm no developer and most of the stuff I learned when studying Computer Science, are various tidbits that help me understand some things more in depths than a non "computer savy" person would.


And just so I've said it.. my mentions in this (and other) posts are not an effort to undermine your obviously huge and great work with this guide. A guide of this magnitude is not something I would be able to do with my current knowledge. I just hope that with the mentioning of my experiences and how I understand the guide (as a fairly outsider to Fallout 3 modding) that it would help in making the guide even better.

I also fully understand the plights of a guide author. This is your free time and hopefully you enjoy it, and as such I don't expect you to change everything I mention and I'm also not expecting day to day changes. I just hope that some of my experiences would help you or fellow modders using this great guide.

Edited by JUNKdeLUXE
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Until Skyrim the plugin modification date/time was the only way the Bethesda game engines did plugin ordering  :wacko: . The CK/GECK still use it  :facepalm: .


I was only wondering about using the initial fINIp3 run instead of copying the default INI file. The rest of INI tweaking would happen later.

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Loading Game Mods into MO

The preliminary tasks are complete and now the actual game mods are going to be installed. These are listed in the installation order that would be used in Mod Organizer. Although Fixes are the first set of mods in MO priority order (left pane), it is best to proceed to the User Interface section and install the mods in the The Need for UIO - User Interface Organizer section first. After this portion of the User Interface mods are installed and initially tested, come back to the Fixes mods and install these mods, then move these mods in the left pane of MO before the User Interface mods. When this is complete, proceed with installing the rest of the mods starting with Supplemental UI. It can be difficult getting the mods that use UIO installed and working correctly, so it's best to do this first. 


This might just highlight my missing knowledge about modding, but I don't understand why the guide(s) is set up like this. If I have to do something else first, why not have that section earlier in the guide?


I believe I've seen the same procedure in one of the Skyrim guides (can't remember if it was STEP or SR:LE) but both times it seems as if I'm missing some critical clue as to why it's done like this :)

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That is old text that should have been changed. There will a new version shortly.


The fixes are generally ones that are independent of plugins (typically ones that have FOSE dlls or perhaps game dlls) or can be overwritten. I separated the fixes into two categories. The Core fixes like UUF3P are intended to have resources and plugin records that are overwritten by later installed/loading mods or for plugins some of the records from other mods should incorporate what UUF3P includes. The other two core fixes are ones that should always be there. The FO3 guide  has 3 core fixes. The next important section is the user interface mods that use UIO. For these installation order is important since their installation scripts change what is installed based on the existing UI menu mods already installed.

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