Garfink

Hope this update fixes my "needing to load Skyrim twice to access my save games problem" Its bizarre.

Agree in entirety, I am sure it isn't EBT's fault as clearly there are many users with no issues. It would be awesome if there was a measurable way to quantify script load so we know what the script engine can handle. .... Then I wake up. In any case, played another 7 hours with not a single crash, seems to have fixed my reload from in game CTD as well, now I don't need to exit to main menu to reload games. Now I can install more mods because of the freed up load order and risk CTD again! BSE is similar and used to be a real NO NO before the memory patch, my game would freeze on every fire spell. I am using it now with no problems, but I have uninstalled footprint, wet-cold and EBT to accommodate it. I should probably uninstall BSE before wet-cold & footprint though, come to think of it.... o' well... if it ain't broke don't fix it. Installed it BBS does look better than vanilla, but isn't game altering like EBT unfortunately, I miss the blood splatters everywhere and the pooling blood and the squirting blood.... Poor man's EBT it certainly is. Oh well. Good to be frugal and not crash I guess.

Have you got the memory patch running? Do you have borderless windows running (that might help)?

You know, I should probably give up on wet and cold, and probably foot prints.... Both of these work like EBT really, injecting nearby actors, I will do it in my next CTD. Edit :p Speak of the devil... I just uninstalled wet and cold. I may as well undo footprints too. Edit Edit: Did both and haven't had a crash in another 6 hours. EBT, Footprint and Wet and Cold are a curse, so tempting to install, so much heartbreak. If it doesn't crash for a week, I will celebrate!

Scope bows just didn't work for me, looks silly. I was attracted to it because I can turn off the crosshair... then I realize you can't aim spells or crossbows... so it became a little pointless. Note: You don't need Sneak Tools if you plan to use SkyRe as its integrated into the perk system. Only reason to install these together is if you want access to the shop. But if you plan to use Stealth Skill Rebalance, its not going to be an issue. Better Vampires is excellent a must for any vampire playthrough.

Could I manually edit the Bash Patch to delete the High level loot from the leveled item list? Is it a simple process, just look at the list and delete?

Ahhh.... I see, Jaysus Swords & immersive armor's distribution can be turned off and on via MCM, you can install them and craft them but they won't appear in loot list unless you turn it on. BUT how about this quote from the Morrowloot 4E description: "This mod also modifies leveled item lists, so anything that modifies them will either be incompatible or will need to be merged via Wyre Bash. If you do not merge things, you will find higher tier loot either appearing where it shouldn't, or your new, modded items not appearing at all! So merge. Seriously. Merge." This leads me to believe that morrowloot stops high-level loot from appearing full stop, but if the item even if modded is lower-level on the level list merging via bash should still be okay and the lower level equipment (modded or vanilla) will appear both in game and in the crafting menu as usual. (I could be totally misinterpreting this of course) The way Jaysus Sword is integrated into CCOR means the high level Jaysus Sword items will be added to the loot in game as it wasn't merged into the bash patch via the usual method. Correct? In ANY case, I will just keep things the way it is, with Scarcity I am rather unlikely to find any daedric equipment any way.... I am thinking a remote chance of finding high level items wouldn't destroy Morrowloot's balance, could add an interesting layer of unknown and replayability. I am in the process of testing all this loot-rarity thing and in-game economy and I will keep you all posted with my findings and settings.

I missed SkyRe and other Requiem non-compatible mods too much when I used Requiem. I also did not like a deleveled world. Requiem is great though and I like all the ancillary support it has gotten.

I am using Jaysus swords and lore weapons etc. you are saying that I should turn off delev/relev or just relev on those too? Or is moving them to load before morrowloot enough? I am not very tech-savy with the details, let me walk through this slowly...... delev makes wrye bash removed items from level lists as requested by the mod and relev marks the mod so that it relevels items in the bash level lists (meaning merging the level lists), but does the load order matter when it comes to these bash tags? I am thinking yes, only if mods edit the same item, but since mods like Jaysus add new items for merging, so as long as they have the relev tag, they will be merged with morrowloot and cause them to appear in loot. Million $ question: Does the level list of things likes Jaysus sword include vanilla items??? (Is my logic right?) And if Jaysus swords add daedric/dragon strength weapons, then it will certain make morrowloot pointless....(well maybe not pointless, just less effective.) does Jaysus Swords, Lore Weapons, Amidianborn stuff add Daedric/Dragon strength items? I hazard to guess YES. So removing the relev tag is probably a must, but the delev tag? Another question: If I remove delev/relev or relev (depending on your answer to my previous question), how would I actually get Jaysus Swords? I must craft them I assume? All very annoying, because if I must craft these swords, then I can only access them through crafting and that means a non-crafting character will miss out and also it makes no sense that these swords are not more widely available in the skyrim world. How about SkyRe??? It merges various weapons/armor mods like Heavy Armory and for the life of me do I need to remove delev/relev on it too? Skyrim is a bit for a monster really, on the one hand I am pretty darn tired of modding and testing and reproccing and on the other hand that is the reason why its the best RPG video game ever.

Agree, at first I thought the loot load-order was BONKERS, but my game is running FINE, better than FINE since using it. I only had to make very specific changes to the load-order for very specific person reasons, like I wanted mod A to intentionally override mod B. But on the whole, I left the load order alone as recommended by LOOT and it just works. Now, adding new mods and adding patches or merged esps to BUM is a thing of the past! I just love it.

Use Loot.

I just played about 10 hours using HLE SIC edition with the hardcore module, set the difficulty on apprentice (as adept was way too hard with the hardcore module, everything can one-shot you.) with scarcity (loot 8x, merchants 6x), morrowloot 4E, OBIS, ASIS, Radiance, random encounters, extended encounters and less quest gold. I don't have any encounter deleveler running now. My Observations: Really had a GREAT time, the secret is the hardcore module which increases the leveled creatures higher, makes all the dungeons reasonably tougher and combat so much more tactical and fair. If you aren't on the ball, you will get killed, but when you are controlling the battlefield you are rewarded with a great fight. The difficult balance is JUST perfect actually. I have morrowloot 4E loaded after ALL "relev" mods and above complete crafting overhaul remade (I have the "delev" and "relev" marker removed from CCOR) to ensure it has priority in the bash patch and retain the crafting from CCOR and it works, loot is rare generally, and morrowloot's hand placed loot means you really have to look around the dungeons for loot. Really added exploration into the game! OBIS simply isn't 100% compatible with morrowloot's ideals, the OBIS bandits now only carry the equipment they were programmed to carry, no extra loot. But OBIS's bandits still wear a large variety of armors that can make some armors/weapons easier to obtain than morrowloot on its own, at least you have to kill something to get it, its better than just finding it in a treasure chest. Also, its not like they give you dragon bone/daedric armor which is fortunate (they MAY give you dragon armor really really late into the game, but by then you probably have some yourself anyway, I don't think I have even seen them with daedric armor though.) You can argue that the greatly increased difficulty in my setup means this doesn't totally wreck the balance or anything, but its worth noting (I may uninstall this if I feel that it makes loot too easy to come by). Same can be said of some of the encounters from Radiance and extended encounters but to a way lesser extent as these usually loaded from the vanilla level lists. Gold is rarer, but to be honest still not too hard to come by, which makes sense for a successful adventurer. But it is rarer so you have to be a little more judicious when spending, if and when there is something worth buying. Merchants have a lot less to sell now, which also makes sense in-game, given the limited shelf space they physically really have! (I've also trade + barter setup fBarterMin 3.5, fBarterMax 7.5 and -40% buying Price). I prefer Radiance and extended encounters and random encounters for outdoor encounters compared with immersive patrol because you don't get as much of it, I find these huge outdoor battles around every corner just a little immersion breaking. With this combo, you get the occasional huge outdoor encounter and quite frequent smaller encounters outdoors and I find the balance just right. What I am probably going to install again, now that EBT and its patches are gone is Populated Dungeons and Populated Forts (NOT Populated Roads or Cities), not Roads because in combination with the above mods, adds a little too much to the roads, but the Populated Forts/Dungeons really adds some nice nasty surprises in often tread dungeons, especially with ASIS running. The forts are now crazy to siege and the battles are EPIC! Controlling the battlefield is essential for victory. If I am playing a melee character that doesn't have a follower or two, its probably best not to install these mods as you simply don't have the manpower to control the battlefield and muscling through isn't going to work with the mods I recommend running. I am also running resplendent racials with adds even more abilities to NPCs (which they use I can assure you!) and you, and with Revenge of the Enemies, ASIS perks/spells/potions/AI, makes fighting even more crazy!! (and fairer in my opinion) I watch Gopher's channel like most of you and I noticed that he is striving to maintain difficulty without turning NPCs into health-sinks and I think I have achieve this, whereas he has failed miserably, his recently late level plays are so boring combat wise, this is most definitely because he is an archer (which is too uber) but its also just his world isn't leveled with him enough. Locational Damage aside which only really works well with archery, whilst making it unfair for melee characters, he only gets into trouble if he is overwhelmed by a mob of tough monsters and that is RARE even with HLE installed, he needs the hardcore plugin & ASIS really. There is room for fine adjustment within the mods i have selected and further tuning can easily be done with mods like SkyTweaks (highly recommended) and specific adjustments if you are playing specific type of characters, like I am playing an illusionist/conjuration/poisoner/dual wield Argonian (crazy fun, so many options in battle! The undead are the most challenging as illusion spells doesn't seem to work on them even dual-cast, probably something I installed breaks this SkyRe perk) and so I have forgotten magic redone/Apocalypse spells installed, if I was playing a thief I may have other specific mods installed. I have tested this with 2 characters, one a two-handed tank and now this character and it works GREAT from level 1 to level 60 (where I stopped playing to try another character), difficulty can be adjusted on the fly via the vanilla gameplay menu or adjusting ASIS/Random Encounter Spawns and SIC difficulty, but I found that I didn't need to for the most part. There is no reason why you can't run these with a encounter deleveling mod if that is your thing. As mentioned elsewhere, I just don't like my world encounters deleveled, my play time is limited and when I am playing I want some action, not running away as often (I can assure you, that you WILL be running....errr...tactical retreat... often enough with my setup) or more importantly finding easy kills everywhere once you have leveled up some.

Thanks for the idea! I will give it a try tonight. Do you use footprints/wet-cold then? I can't live without them unfortunately, with Resplendent Racials, you have wood-elves and argonians sometime going invisible and the footprints are an AWESOME way to detect them!! (Not that I am having issues with footprints fortunately!) What blood decal tweaks do you use?

I have finally eliminated my final CTD bug with my load-order and it is caused unmistakably by EBT. I love this mod, it adds so much visceral enjoyment to combat that I stuck with it through thick and thin, but its time to let it go for good. I'll like to share my experience. I am running a modified extended step/SR/REG load order which on its own is super stable. I am running some other mods though that might interact with EBT (or not.) Those extra mods that may interact are: SkyRe in particular the combat module, also had issues with Duel V5 and V7 in the past, Better Stealth AI, Improved sneak detection, Helmet Toggle, ASIS, Random Encounter, OBIS, Revenge of the Enemies, High Level Enemies, Auto Equip Arrows. I am using other non-step mods like morrowloot 4E, but I doubt they have anything to do with it. There are many step mods that are active in combat like footprint, wet and cold and frostfall which are obvious. I am not saying any of these mods are the culprit, just listing it out here so you have an idea what else is running. I have reproducible (on my load-order) CTDs entering various dungeons which are totally fixed simply by disabling EBT in its MCM menu or uninstalling the mod per instructions provided by EBT. Once removed I no longer have CTDs that occur "randomly" outdoors also. Its not really random as it is usually associated with spawn points. I suspect that with ASIS/Random Encounter/OBIS/Extended Encounters's extra spawns is probably what is causing issues, it is even said in EBT's own MCM menu that to disable the mod in "heavy fighting areas". Too bad when your whole game is heavy fighting. I've try decreasing the EBT's script fire rate for NPCs but that doesn't really help. I think the blood on screen portion is safe but really isn't the juicy part of the mod. So if you are having CTDs and running extra spawn mods, you can try this "fix".

Thought so. That is most logical and it would be the way I would handle the problem..... if I knew how to compare and create a new patch using Tes5edit. I can follow instructions well enough when using Tes5edit, but I have not much idea what I am doing.

Don't you love and hate updates, now I don't know if all my old patches work! For falskaar I am using the following patches: ClimatesOfTamriel Falskaar.esp Falskaar Wildlife.esp Closefaced helmets with circlets - Falskaar.esp High Level Enemies - SIC Falskaar.esp FalskaarRNDHotfix.esp Falskaar SkyRe Faction Patch.esp Falskaar Skyre Alternative Start Patch.esp For Consistent Older People: Skyre Consistent Older People.esp DiversePriests_ConsistentOlderPeoplePatch.esp I don't think the Falskaar update is essential so I haven't updated yet. But Consistent Older people seems like an essential update as it brings changes from the current USKP. What do you guys think?

Sounds like there is no perfect solution. Remember with the "Old Skool" style of RPG, there were many many examples where even though the world was deleveled (which was the norm back then), there were artificial barriers in the game done by the programmers to prevent an early demise or access to high level loot and maintain a sense of suspense. These barriers (like areas in the game that isn't accessible early on) (that can make the game more linear) are NOT in Skyrim, so I don't think that there will ever be a perfect solution as sectioning off Skyrim isn't really an option. The game world being so sandbox style with a rather weak journal system just isn't cut out to be deleveled. You are correct: I have tried a lot and took the game to level 50+ in each "test", I found deleveled world like Requiem was super easy in the middle of the game and even easier later and the world was so much smaller at any level because you are limited to where you can go, either because the dungeons were too hard or too easy. I lost all sense of exploration. It was terrible for me. The early game of Requiem and Skyrim Unleash was great and I think well tested and balanced, but like many of these mods you can imagine that it would be easier to playtest early levels and I just don't think they are very polish in the mid to high levels. I prefer using other ways to dynamically adjusting difficulty to suit the level I am at and the style of play I am adopting. The balance could be great with one character, but with another type of character the balance could be totally off. So installing mods that allow you to adjust the in-game difficulty without turning the monsters into health-sinks is the best way to go (in my experience).

Checking it out now, loads really really slow... You've got some mods I've not heard off on the list... Great!

I am using that Farkas font/interface mod with bits of it overwriting by other interface mods, and it adds italics fonts for the books, leaving regular fonts elsewhere. I think it works great on short letters/notes, but reading a whole Skyrim book can be rather annoying and difficult to read.

I see. So HLE provides a larger variety of leveled creatures so those pesky bandits will have uber versions as you level beyond the vanilla bandit maxes. In that case I will probably not bother with delevellers and use the hardcore patch of HLE to raise the average level of enemies encountered, so my dungeons are more dangerous. Yes, this will mean that I will lose some sense of progression as monsters will keep up with me or even ahead of me... but I can pretend the game is linear and I have just entered a more challenging area. I won't see a REAL difference compared to a unleveled world UNLESS 1) I am comparing the same dungeon between games. 2) You go back to a respawned dungeon in the same game. 3) Maybe outdoor areas, but I suspect even with HLE the outdoor wolves and saber cats aren't going to be leveled up very high, but them outdoor bandits are going to take some imagination to keep the illusion. I can live with that in a game world as "limited" in size as Skyrim.

If that is the case, then can I assume the same can be said of ASIS encounter zones or SkyRe encounters if I am using High Level Enemies?? Meaning: does HLE uncap all encounter zones beyond the limits set by encounter zone mods? Edit: HLE SIC version is based around the non-scaling version of the mod unfortunately and that means only the strongest monsters in each monster group will scale with the character (boss monsters). Just notice that there is a Hardcore patch for HLE which raises the level of monsters encountered (and make changes to the difficulty scaling in-game) this sounds like a good idea to really make them dungeons more difficult without spaming too many spawns via ASIS/random encounters.

After much soul searching and many hours of testing... including trying Skyrim Unleash, SkyRe Encounters, Requiem and ASIS encounters I have decided I DON'T like my monsters deleveled, at high levels there are areas of the game (most of Skyrim actually) that is simply too easy. What I think would be perfect is a deleveling mod that raises the minimum level of creatures where appropriate/selectively BUT leaving it so that ALL dungeons have unlimited level cap so if I stumble into a "low level" dungeon when I am level 60, it will still spawn level 60 monsters. Yes I know this isn't perfect but as large as Skyrim is, its no daggerfall in size and so I can't really afford to lose dungeons as I am leveling beyond them. I guess I could manually setup WTF, but I just don't think it worth all the effort. BUT. having said it, loot deleveling and decreasing the amounts of gold in skyrim and nerfing merchants makes for a much more rewarding game. Its actually worthwhile playing a thief now, whereas it was pointless before. To nerf OBIS, you will need to place Morrowloot 4E (have complete crafting overhaul & remove the relev/delev marker on it after Morrowloot 4E to use CCO's crafting if you want to, recommend nerfing the mining via CCO as well, select fast mining but less ore) and Scarcity below it in the load-order, just so any shared level-lists will have Morrowloot 4E and Scarcity overwriting it in the bash patch. Having done this, that SkyRe perk where you can smelt down clutter for its constituent ingots become its weight in gold! I've never taken this perk before making these changes, now it matters A LOT. (come to think of it, I never bother mining before either as looting and melting the loot was much much faster.) Remember If you are still getting too much loot, just install a higher setting with Scarcity, try 8x loot & 6x merchants to really put the squeeze on loot. Once done, you will find your perk selection become more important and any loot find heaven. Also: With the uncapper ini that I mention above, I would edit the perk progression BACK to the default SkyRe one by cut and pasting. The ini that I mention above wasn't designed around SkyRe and you need a little more perks when using SkyRe to make it balanced. I like the slower progression to level 30 with this ini, as much of the game is better balanced and more fun between level 15-30 in my opinion, so stretching it a little is a good idea. With the vanilla SkyRe uncapper leveling, you are usually level 14 after one evening's play which is WAY too quick. But I usually edit the ini so that it levels quick up to level 5 so I can specialize my character early on and give it more direction, or else you will be using ALL the skills to just survive, which sort of gives you a "bad" start everytime..

The magelight with ELE is much brighter than torches and the light is much more natural than the bluish light in the vanilla. The torches are very warm as expected with a limited but reasonable and useful radius.

For me its essential because my Mod Organizer is BROKEN somehow, I need to boot Skyrim TWICE to get access to my save game, the first time I load Skyrim, my save games are all missing, then I have to exit and restart Skyrim and lo and behold they are there again! So exiting out of Skyrim every time I die is a terrible waste of time. So I was very relieved to find that exiting to menu works just as well. If anyone can help me with mod Mod Organizer issue I would be very grateful. (I have tried, clearing my save game folder & reinstalling Mod Organizer, I am using the most current version of MO.)

I uninstalled it too, loved the idea and when it was working it was great. Just the implementation didn't seem fleshed out, I had invisible torches very quickly into the game. Maybe it was a conflict with better stealth for NPCs but I can't live without that mod. So bye bye to this mod.