keithinhanoi

I used to use LoS, but then found that no matter what I did for settings with supplied / my own lighting preset, it never looked quite right along with CoT. I also had the lights not switching problem, and the stop/start quest lines didn't work for me, so I quit using LoS, and later found a mod called Immersive Content - Extinguised Daytime Fires and Lights, which does very similar things to LoS and Claralux, trouble free for me, but (sadly) with an MCM settings menu. Anyhow, I noticed over in the [testing] thread for Hearthfire Chimneys that TechAngel85 mentioned that LoS is likely being taken off the STEP Extended list, and I am curious why - ???

Hey - that's exactly what I had been hoping to find before I started this thread! Thanks a bunch for the heads up. I've updated my list to match what he's posted (a few new ones - yay!), and added a link referring to Arthmoor's post, because it basically trumps what I've done here (and most of my sources of confirmation were from him anyhow!) I suppose I'll leave this here, though, just as a quick reference - and perhaps it could be added to the STEP wiki on TES5Edit / conflict resolution.

I thank Neo and the original SR for my learning of this essential UI mod. I've got it set with automatic "manual" saves every 10 minutes, and a hotkey for manual saves, with no saves on mount or in combat. I'd love a save on entering a player home feature, but the hotkey is good enough. Mainly, I just wish there was a way to do a hot-keyed "manual" load of the last save without having to enter the menu. Oh well.

I'm still considering not using TPD so I can use this instead. So I'd only need to worry about cleaning in TES5Edit, right? What about the fixed NavMesh you had mentioned before? (apologies for being a pest)

The nests and accompanying flying birds are provided by the fabulous (but very non-STEP) SkyBirds by steve40. I'm betting that Wing and I are part of a bird-loving minority, so don't worry about it. Wing - I'll PM you with a patch when the dust settles on REGS 3.x, maybe in a week or so. Remind me if I forget. As for the official STEP patch, well, I actually use the official keithinhanoi patch, and that has override records for TPD in it, so it will be my problem either way. Nonetheless, I'll wait as you suggest and see what happens. Thanks so much for trying to negotiate with ItsMeToo.

I have to be honest and say I hadn't installed the full set of REGS last week, before you updated the pack to 3.x, and now that I've read the full description of Sky Haven Temple Enhanced, I'm tempted to just not use The Paarthumax Dilemma, because SHT sound so much more intriguing and well integrated with MadFrenchie's series that you've added, as well as with Helgen Reborn, a quest mod I just can't wait to play (and I've been waiting to start my play through for over 3 months now!) Full disclosure though, I'm only using 70% of STEP core, and a good part of STEP extended, so I won't feel so guilty disabling TPD... EDIT - BTW, when I clean SkyHavenTempleEnhanced, I get 81 ITM records cleaned, not 83. UDR is 315, same as in the updated pack guide. Strange.

Um, I already patched the floating sparrow, but that's from a different bird mod - Birds of Skyrim! Easy enough, just set the z position to be the same as the fence next to it, if I remember correctly (I did that in TES5Edit!) However, if you try going into console and clicking on any SkyBirds nest, you'll notice the first two characters of the ID are FF, which means it's a script-created object. I actually scoured the SkyBirds comments thread looking for the solution to another problem - nests hovering half a mile up from Riverwood and some other places. I confirmed the script-created nest function of the mod in one of steve40's comments, and also found out that the sky-bound nests is related to an improper object bound value for one of Vurt's custom pines in Skyrim Flora Overhaul. Who would've thought?! Anyhow, the only way I know of to get rid of that nest is by using the MarkForDelete command in console (after clicking on the nest to see it's ID #). Any Birds of Skyrim fixes would involve patching with the Birdsofskyrim.eps as a master, so I'm not sure if CJ is interested into doing that so much... RE: avoiding posting long load order lists in the STEP forums - I tried using spoiler tags yesterday, and they didn't work, so I'd also suggest throwing load order / .ini contents into a pastebin.com page, and emdedding the link in your post.

So originally 3DNPC.esp was at the top of the Companions Load Early section, and I agree with Wing that putting it at the bottom of Overrides late might be too far down, but putting it way up at the bottom of NPC face mods seems quite early to me. Anyhow, this is based on no actual evidence, so I'll have to check to see if I get the same crashes, though, and take a look at the effect either location in the load order has with other mods in TES5Edit. I copied in the recommended BOSS Userlist entries from the guide, and after sorting see that Live Another Life is still coming after REGS - Cities and associated patches, so some of LAL's NavMeshes will overwrite ones in REGS - Cities and ETaC. So my quick fix here was to set LAL to load at the BOTTOM of Overrides Late (instead of at the top of the Alternate starts section as it is set in the Masterlist for BOSS 2.2 right now.) You guys might want to give some consideration to advice on load order for LAL users who haven't dived into using LOOT yet (ie., most of them.) EDIT: Well, I didn't crash upon entering Whiterun, so not sure what's going on there, but I did visit RIverwood and saw the same things as Wing - Holy clipping buildings, Batman! At least the floating SkyBirds nest I got with ETaC is now sitting on the roof of the western entrance structure!

Works fine for me - same version as you - are you using custom Userlist entries? At the least, you should still hopefully have the previous masterlist file, named masterlist.old in BOSSSkyrim, and if you do, I think you could try turn off updating in the BOSS GUI and then revert to that backup by renaming it as masterlist.txt until you figure out what's going on.

Hmm, that's a loaded question... or should I say (mod) loading question? To try not to make this too off topic, here's my answer in a pastebin link. Long story short is that although I'm not using enough of STEP to confidently state this suggestion will have no conflicts with STEP Core or Extended, I don't see anything that should conflict. In any case, I was definitely thinking of this as a "fix" mod when I suggested it, and use it for that purpose myself.

I checked the newest Masterlist for BOSS 2.22 in BUM and for SkyFalls + SkyMills at least, the newest naming conventions added with v3.1 has not been added to the masterlist. However, depending on your configuration of SF+SM when you installed, it may be still be sorted by BOSS anyhow. For example SkyFalls + SkyMills.esp will be sorted, while the one I've got installed, SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp, isn't on the newest masterlist, and thus not recognized or sorted. I asked on the official LOOT / BOSS thread about the future of updates to the "old" BOSS masterlist, and the general response so far is that quite a few people who used to make submissions / update the list won't be doing so anymore, since the focus is now on making sure LOOT works properly. This means that updates to the masterlist are going to be less and less frequent, unless some group of end users bands together to take over.

Not sure, but it might be. Since it disappeared from Nexus silently, I only know that it was Nexus Skyrim mod #17919, and the version was 3.0, and the chimney's are side-attached and taller than the screenshot for that one on TESA. Anyhow - it's my problem to deal with, and the InitiallyDisabled / Z = -30000 trick is working great. On second thought, it's too much of a mess to incorporate into REGS as is. The problem is that in ETaC adds so many extra lights in to some towns / villages that when IC-EDFL's lights are thrown into the mix, there are just too many light sources, and I'm seeing lights popping in, and glitches with the shadows not working properly on ground textures. However, I love those bridge braziers from IC-EDFL so much that I may try to make a "light" version of the mod which just adds the day / night switched lanterns on roads and the bridge braziers, and not touch any cities / towns / villages. That should in theory make it totally compatible with REGS and ELFX. If I want to share it with anyone, though, I would need to get permission from the author. Or.... I could just give up on the bridge braziers and go back to Lanterns of Skyrim. I did stop using LoS because of strange light intensity / color issues (even after fiddling with a custom light setting as MannyGT explained) and also the day / night cycle switching stopped working for me a couple times. Of course, that was months ago, and I know more now, so I'll have to give it another go I suppose, if I decide to give up on IC-EDFL. That is a fun fact, didn't know that.

Nope, not at all. The optional version that I suggested just adds a custom script to 12 Magic Effect records, as you can see here: So it would only conflict with any mods that alter these records - though attaching the script could be put into a patch very easily. I'm afraid I don't use the full STEP list of mods, so I'm not sure if there any I'm not using which include these Magic Effect records.

Good thing I asked. So that means VMAD entries should follow the normal process in TES5Edit for conflict management. Thanks a bunch for clarifying this. I'm going to remove it from my list of records / sub-records that don't need to be carried forward, and suppose I'll need to take another look through at VMAD entries I need to bring into my global conflict patch. As far as I can tell, all the remove UDR feature does is set the Initially Disabled flag and the Z position to -30000. Anyhow, doing that manually seems to be working just great. With IC-EDFL, it goes further than Laterns of Skyrim in that the author changes a lot of the vanilla exterior / city light sources (torches, candles, lanterns, braziers) to his scripted ones with a daily on / off cycle. So any mod that moves vanilla lights or the buildings / structures they are attached to will result in "floating" lights from IC-EDFL. So I'm just going through each town / city to find lights that need to be "removed" due to changes that ETaC makes. I also happen to use a different chimney mod from the one in REGS, called Chimneys for Skyrim - but not the one listed here on STEP, but rather one that is no longer available on Nexus (skyrim mod #17919). That also leaves a few unattached chimney's after ETaC's repositioning of some vanilla houses, so I'm "removing" those as well. I encourage you to check out IC-EDFL as an alternative to Lanterns of Skyrim, but note that in addition to the patching that is needed when used with ETaC, it also needs some fixes if you're using the full complement of ELFX's plugins (since it also moves / removes some vanilla exterior lights). Oh, and as a side note - I noticed that ETaC uses rounded-shape lanterns, while both Lanterns of Skyrim and IC-EDFL use the box-shaped vanilla ones. Nothing earth-stopping, of course. :)

Yup, Nearox, that about sums it up, though in practice, not 100% of VRAM is mirrored with system RAM - but the important things to remember is that generally, the more VRAM you have, the higher Skyrim's memory usage will go, and the more useful ENBoost becomes, since it offloads cached object geometry and texture data out of TESV.exe (Skyrim) and into the enbhost.exe that comes with ENB. Well, I can pretty easily set REGS - Cities.esp and REG Patch - Cities.esp to load after LAL for now, since it seems you made the NavMesh edits with that load order in mind. So, with VMAD entries - from what you're saying, if there are three mods making changes to a record, and the earliest loaded one (on the left side when viewed in TES5Edit,) has a VMAD entry to attach a script, that will get carried into the game as long as the other two mods don't have any VMAD entries? Then, as another example, again with three mods making changes to a particular record, if the first-loaded mod has a VMAD entry for one script, and the second-loaded mod has a different VMAD entry, but the third mod has no VMAD entries, will the other two VMAD scripts get pulled forward into the game to attach to that object / NPC? That second example is important because I've seen a number of mods adding VMAD entries to the generic "Prisoner" NPC, which is your player character, right? Back to REGS, though, I am now going through towns / cities to check for any floating objects added by some of my non-STEP mods. One in particular I use that has these is Immersive Content - Extinguished Daytime Fires and Lights, which I chose as an alternative to Lanterns of Skyrim. It's similar to LoS in that it adds lights to some roads and bridges and puts them and some existing vanilla lights on an on at night / off in the day schedule - but with the main difference being not all added lights are laterns (eg., adding open fire braziers on bridges, which look much nicer, IMO.) Anyhow, I'm wonder what method you've used to get rid of extra floating objects - the easiest way I can see is to set the Record Flag of Initially Disabled and the Z Position to -30000. Does that sound like a good plan if I'm trying to avoid opening up everything in CK?

It's still not entirely clear how much attention the BOSS masterlist will receive after v2.2 is released, since LOOT (previously known as BOSS v3) is meant to replace BOSS. With every passing week, new mods are released, patches, made, etc., all of which would need to be added to the "old" masterlist for v2.2 to provide the same usefulness as it had until the masterlist was frozen in January. Personally, I'm not ready for LOOT, and worry about things like how it will handle plugins with masters in a different orders (since that's what it looks at when determining load order.) Maybe that's already been figured out, but I'm not interested in combing through the development forum thread, and will just wait until it's out of beta and has seen use by the "public" for a month or so. In the meanwhile, it's probably important to note that if you're trying out the BOSS v2.2 update beta, BOSS Userlist Manager (BUM) needed to be updated to work with it. The latest version of BUM is now 6.7. Anyhow, looking at the tail end of the LOOT / Boss 2.2 development thread, I see that wrinklynija has announced his plan to release BOSS v2.2 tomorrow (Saturday, which is actually today here in Hanoi). He's likely going to remove the Nexus mods page for BOSS. since it has it's own webpage. An important thing he also stated is that BOSS v2.2 will be required to receive any masterlist udpates - though again, it's unclear how well it be maintained moving forward (since it requires so much "manual" work to keep it updated.)

Here's something totally on topic that I forgot to mention about slower timescales (below 20). Exterior & Interior / Dungeon cell NPC respawn times are based on game time, not real world time. So if you slow down how fast the game time passes, then it will feel to the player that it takes longer for cells to respawn new NPCs. Therefore, I suggest changing both of Cell Respawn Time values to be lower if you like to encounter new NPC "enemies" often. This can be done in the Tweaks section of Wyre Bash's Update Bashed Patch window. For example, If you reduce the timescale by half to 10, then set Cell Respawn Time from 10 to 5 days, and Cell Respawn (Cleared) from 30 to 15 days. If you use lifestorock's Skyrim Immersive Creatures, then these respawn times can be set in the mod's MCM menu, along with his wonderful respawn time randomization features which add a level of unpredictability to when cells are cleared and new NPCs spawned.

Great. I am thinking of actually using one of LAL's alternate starts once I'm ready for the "real" play through, so I'm going to do some testing with them. If I find any issues, I'll report back here, though I'm still curious what CJ2311 thinks about the NAVM records in LAL that "override" some of the ones in your REGS plugins.

Okay, that's good to know. I had also been using the coc console command to jump into a "new" game for testing purposes, but then in the last two weeks I read that there are some mods which don't work properly if you start a game with coc. So I'd like to start using LAL from now on. I'm curious, Nearox - where do you have LAL in your load order as compared to the REGS plugins - before or after? I ask because of those NavMesh records that I see LAL overriding when I check in TES5Edit. Should I change the order so that the REGS - Cities.esp and REG Patch - Cities.esp load after LAL's plugin?

@CJ2311: Thanks for that explanation. From what you're saying I think the situation is that in interior / exterior <Persistent> / <Temporary> Cell records, it's important to know what the changes to each sub-record do when deciding to pull changes forward for earlier-loaded plugins (ie., conflict resolution). With the example of that NAME sub-record change made by No Snow Under the Roof and then ETaC, I would not know about ETaC's change from a one-story to two-story building by just looking in TES5Edit. So yes, I see how that becomes a need to fix in CK if you want NSUtR's snow on top of the new building placed by ETaC. No worries Nearox - but I should also apologize, because in my post I didn't make it clear that I was giving general examples. I actually haven't found any problems in your awesome custom-built REGS plugins and patches. I really just want to know what kinds of records / sub-records you generally don't pull forward in TES5Edit, and VMAD seems to be one of them, from what you're saying. I do understand that the NavMesh edits had to be done in CK, but I'm also worried about some mods in my personal lineup that also have NavMesh (NAVM) record changes in them that are also found in REGS. One mod I'm using that has NavMash edits that "conflict" with the REGS plugins is Arthmoor's Alternate Start - Live Another Life. Since I'm using Interesting NPCs, I've changed the load order rule in BUM for REG - Cities.esp and REG Patch - Cities.esp to come at the bottom of the Companions Load Early section of the Masterlist (side-note: I think you should add that load order information for Interesting NPCs users directly to the wiki page of the REGS Pack Guide.) However, since Live Another Life still comes later in the load order, it overrides some of the REGS custom NavMesh records. So what should I do there? Also, from your experience in general, does the last-loaded mod with NAVM changes override all of the earlier loaded mods, or are they merged in some way when Skyrim runs? Thanks again for all the help, and also for the amazing work you've both done here!

CJ2311 / Nearox - I am considering adding REGS to my mod lineup for my new play through, and have been looking through all of your customized plugins versions of some of the mods, and the patch plugins. This is really impressive stuff, and it's amazing how much thought you've put into putting all of these different elements together such that they seem contiguous and intended to work cooperatively. My challenge is that I've got some mods in my lineup that are non-STEP, so I will have to do some extra conflict resolution. This is one of the reasons why I started a STEP thread to collect together a list of record / sub-record types that are merged at runtime and/or do not require conflict resolution in TES5Edit. With that in mind, I'd like to ask if you could elaborate on this comment at the bottom of the REGS - SRLE Conflict Resolution Guide page: "Children records do NOT need conflict resolution. I.E. all the records within a <Persistent> or <Temporary> subfolder of a Cell." Firstly, do you mean both interior / exterior cell children records? Then, I'm wondering about things such as Record Flags for <Persistent> / <Temporary> Cell children records - including flag such as PersistentReference Quest Item DisplaysInMainMenu, NavMeshGround NoRespawn, InitiallyDisabled, etc. - wouldn't those need to be carried forward? Another sub-record type that seems would be a good idea to forward in a <Persistent> /<Temporary> Cell children records is NAME - I've carried forward changes from No Snow Under the Roof in a few Cell children records, for example, to make sure NSUtR's snow pile models are used such as here: ETaC 0 Complete.esp Worldspace 0000003C <Tamriel> Block -1, 0 Sub-Block -2, 2 0000937C <MorthalExterior05> Temporary 00077E2E Also, I see mods which change this record, such as Neo's Skyrim Coin Replacer Redux, which can be reverted to vanilla by later-loading plugins. A third one I see that would need conflict resolution is Data - Position/Rotation. So, here I see ELFX overriding placed object locations as set in SkyrimSewers, and it seems the Position/Location values should be carried forward from SkyrimSewers (so the object is in the right place.) Then, on the other hand, there's sub-record types that seem don't need to be forwarded if later-loaded mods don't make any changes, such as VMAD. Also Navmesh records (NAVM) shouldn't be carried forward or combined to a patch in TES5Edit, right? Any help would be appreciated here - basically I'm wondering what "rule of thumb" you use for deciding what doesn't need to be carried forward into a patch. TIA! EDIT: I just realized you may only be referring only to subrecords that actually have Children in the record structure as presented in TES5Edit. So for example: 3DNPC.esp Worldspace 0001691D <WindhelmWorld> Block 1, 0 Sub-Block 4, 1 Children Temporary 0004B66C and you're not talking about records such as this one: 3DNPC.esp Worldspace 0001CDD3 <LabyrinthianWorld> Block -1, 0 Sub-Block -1, 1 0001CF11 <ValkyggOrigin> Temporary 0001D791 Is that right?

Strange timing of events like shops closing / opening or delayed NPC actions might be related to setting iPresentinterval=0 in skyrimprefs.ini. I suggest reading this Beth Forums thread post from way back in 2011 claiming that iPresentinterval should not be disabled. Basically the idea presented there is that the Skyrim's internal timing is based on rendered frames, and disabling iPresentinterval will break that function of the game. Definitely we know that turning iPresentinterval off will allow Skyrim to render in excess of 60 FPS, and anything above that will result in issues with the havoc engine's physics of the game, so is is recommended to use an FPS limiter to avoid that problem. Reading through that entire thread, though, it's unclear to me whether using an FPS limiter to clamp to a maximum of 60 will bring back normal internal timing to the game in the way that iPresentinterval provides. So, I leave it enabled (iPresentinterval=1) just to be on the safe side. Of course, with my relatively "weak" GPU, I don't usually get frame rates well above the 40's except in interiors, so I don't experience the stuttering that people claim happens with iPresentinterval enabled.

@EssArrBee: You're right, and I assume they get merged as well, but I can't find anything on the web the explicitly states that LNAM entries are merged at runtime. Anyhow, I've added it with the "not confirmed" warning. I've also added Story Manager Quest Node records as another one that gets merged - came across a post about it by Arthmoor, in the comments thread for AS-LAL.

I can't fathom how a seeming disconnect between the artistic and the technical sides of a visual modification creation shared freely with everyone would bring the level of vitriol, profanity, defaming generalizations, and personal attacks as I've seen. This whole "event" and a few other similar recent ones have sucked dry all my inspiration and interest in being an active part of or making any further contribution of any sort to the modding community at this time. Many thanks to all who have directly or indirectly helped me.

Thanks for the tip. You. Are. Awesome.