Draw distance and Tree LODs?

[DanielCoffey]

I am getting some oddities with my draw distance and tree billboards and I wonder if I could just get an eyeball on these screenshots to check if what I am seeing is what you would expect for the Ultra settings.

 

The first shot is taken from the bridge at Arefu looking in the general direction of Megaton. There is a clear grid of detailed LOD and grass nearby and then an abrupt boundary where the grass stops and the LOD is low detail. All buildings outside this block are low detail shapes with simple textures. As I walk towards them, the grass extends then they pop in to full detail.

 

 

You can see the LOD edge just past the Brahmin pens and just as far as the boat on the jetty. I have resized the image down from 2460x1440 to 1280x720 for convenience.

 

Next I will show you the issue with the tree billboards I am seeing with the output from FO3LODGEN. I am using the DEAD version of the Flora Overhaul. First is the Vanilla LODs and billboards with both the FO3LODGEN ESP and LODs disabled in ModOrganizer and then I have turned the tree billboards back on...

 

 

Look at the "fat" trees in FO3LODGEN. Have I created them correctly?

 

Here are the Fallout.ini and FalloutPrefs.ini files in Spoiler tags.

 

Fallout.ini

 

[Archive]
sArchiveList=Fallout - Textures.bsa, Fallout - Meshes.bsa, Fallout - Voices.bsa, Fallout - Sound.bsa, Fallout - MenuVoices.bsa, Fallout - Misc.bsa
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1
SInvalidationFile=

[Audio]
fASFadeOutTime=10
fDialogMaxDistance=1800
fDialogMinDistance=125
fFilterDistortionGain=-7.5
fMinSoundVel=90
fPlayerFootVolume=0.65
fRegionLoopFadeInTime=5.0
fRegionLoopFadeOutTime=5.0
iCollisionSoundTimeDelta=150
iRadioUpdateInterval=250

[backgroundLoad]
fAlphaAddInterior=0.7
fBlurRadius=7
fBrightClamp=0.225
fBrightScale=2.25
fEyeAdaptSpeed=0.5
fGrassDimmer=1.5
fSunlightDimmer=1.5
fTargetLUM=1
fTreeDimmer=1
iNumBlurpasses=1

[Controls]
bAlwaysRunByDefault=1
;Remove mouse acceleration
fForegroundMouseAccelBase=0
fForegroundMouseAccelTop=0
fForegroundMouseBase=0
fForegroundMouseMult=0

[Display]
bAllowScreenShot=1
bLODNoiseAniso=1
fDefault1stPersonFOV=55
fPipboy1stPersonFOV=47
fEyeEnvMapLOD1=500
fEyeEnvMapLOD2=800
fNoLODFarDistanceMin=100
iDebugTextTopBottomOffset=20
iLocation X=5
iLocation Y=5
;intended to improve the effects of lighting when it's dark, from ''Fallout Street Lights''
fLightLODDefaultStartFade=10240.0
fLightLODRange=10240.0
fLightLODMinStartFade=10240.0
fLightLODMaxStartFade=10240.0
fShadowLODDefaultStartFade=200.0
fShadowLODRange=200.0
fShadowLODMinStartFade=100.0
fShadowLODMaxStartFade=1000.0
fSpecularLODDefaultStartFade=10240.0
fSpecularLODRange=10240.0
fSpecularLODMinStartFade=10240.0
fSpecularLODMaxStartFade=10240.0

[Fonts]
sFontFile_1=Textures\Fonts\DarN_FranKleinBold_14.fnt
sFontFile_2=Textures\Fonts\DarN_FranKleinBold_16.fnt
sFontFile_3=Textures\Fonts\Glow_Monofonto_Medium.fnt
sFontFile_4=Textures\Fonts\DarN_Sui_Generis_Otl_10.fnt
sFontFile_5=Textures\Fonts\DarN_Sui_Generis_Otl_13.fnt
sFontFile_6=Textures\Fonts\DarN_Sui_Generis_Otl_13.fnt
sFontFile_7=Textures\Fonts\DarN_Libel_Suit_Otl_24.fnt
sFontFile_8=Textures\Fonts\Glow_Futura_Caps_Large.fnt

[FootIK]
fFootRaisedGain=0.9
fGroundAscendingGain=0.4
fGroundDescendingGain=0.4
fOnOffGain=0.5
fRagdollFeedback=0.7

[General]
bAnimateDoorPhysics=0
bEnableBoundingVolumeOcclusion=1
bUseThreadedTempEffects=1
sCharGenQuest=0001f388
sEssentialFileCacheList=Data\Fallout.esm|Data2\Fallout.esm, Data\Music\Special\MainTitle.mp3, Data\Fallout - Sound.bsa|Fallout - Sound.bsa, Data\Fallout - Voices.bsa|Fallout - Voices.bsa, Data\Fallout - MenuVoices.bsa|Fallout - MenuVoices.bsa
sIntroMovie=Fallout INTRO Vsk.bik
sUnessentialFileCacheList=Data\Fallout - Meshes.bsa|Data2\Fallout - Meshes.bsa, Data\Fallout - Textures.bsa|Data2\Fallout - Textures.bsa, Data\Music\Dungeon\*.xma, Data\Music\Base\*.mp3, Data\Music\Battle\*.mp3, Data\Music\Explore\*.mp3, Data\Music\Public\*.mp3, Data\Music\Special\*.mp3
bUseThreadedAI=1   ;often, but perhaps not always, needed in Fallout 3 with multi-core CPUs to avoid a CTD during launch
iNumHWThreads=2  ;often, but perhaps not always, needed in Fallout 3 with multi-core CPUs to avoid a CTD during launch
bLoadFaceGenHeadEGTFiles = 1  ;Allow facial morphs from mods to work correctly

[Grass]
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0
fTexturePctThreshold=0
;recommended changes from ''Flora Overhaul''
;grass size value improves the density and thus the look of the grass but reduces performance
iMinGrassSize=80 ; increase this to 80 or 140 to reduce grass density and improve game performance if needed.
iMaxGrassTypesPerTexure=6 ;increase grass diversity with a small cost to performance (yes, 'texure' and not 'texture'),use only with Forested Edition. Use the default otherwise.

[HAVOK]
fMaxTime=0.016

[interface]
fMenuBackgroundOpacity=0.76
fMenuBGBlurRadius=2
fPopUpBackgroundOpacity=0.87
fRSMFaceSliderDefaultMax=3.5
fRSMFaceSliderDefaultMin=-3.5

[interfaceFX]
fBlurIntensityHUD=1.2
fBlurRadiusMenus=0.3
fDefaultBurstIntensity=2
fMiniBurstDuration=200
fMiniBurstIntensity=1.5

;pulse effect
fPulseBrightenIntensity=0.25
fPulseRadiusIntensity=0.5
fPulseRate=0.0006

fScreenLightBaseIntensity=0.6
fScreenLightRadius=6

;pipboy menu transitions
fShudderChance=0.2
fVertHoldChance=0.08

[LOD]
fActorLODDefault=5
fDistanceMultiplier=1
;There is a misprint in the INI that would have specified that fFadeInTime=2, but since they spelled it fFadeInTimet, it doesn't work, so I have left this in the comments. Default is 1.2.
fFadeOutTime=2
fLODBoundRadiusMult=10
fLODFadeOutPercent=0.6
fTalkingDistance=1000
iFadeNodeMinNearDistance=500

[Menu]
fCreditsScrollSpeed=40

[Pipboy]
fBlurIntensityPipboy=0.25

[RenderedTerminal]
fRaceSexMenuVPos=-0.6
fRaceSexMenuZoom=70
fRenderedTerminalZoom=33 ;enable higher resolution text displayed within in-game rendered terminals
fScreenLightBaseIntensity=1.2
fScreenLightColorB=0.62
fScreenLightColorG=0.74
fScreenLightColorR=0.68
fScreenLightRadius=80

[TerrainManager]
fHighBlockLoadDistanceLow=50000

[VATS]
fVatsLightColorB=0.35
fVatsLightColorG=0.35
fVatsLightColorR=0.35
fVATSLightLevelMax=65

[Voice]
sFileTypeGame=ogg

[Weather]
fSunBaseSize=750
fSunGlareSize=800

 

 

FalloutPrefs.ini

 

[Audio]
fDefaultEffectsVolume=1.0000
fDefaultFootVolume=0.5000
fDefaultMasterVolume=0.5600
fDefaultMusicVolume=0.4000
fDefaultRadioVolume=0.5000
fDefaultVoiceVolume=0.7500
 
[blurShader]
bUseBlurShader=0
 
[blurShaderHDR]
bDoHighDynamicRange=1
 
[Controls]
bGamePadRumble=1
bInvertYValues=0
fMouseSensitivity=0.0020
fXenonHorizLookSpeed=1500.0000
fXenonVertLookSpeed=1200.0000
Activate=0012020A
Always Run=003AFFFF
Auto Move=0010FFFF
Back=0050FF14
Block=00380110
Crouch/Sneak=004FFF08
Forward=0048FF13
Grab=002CFF09
Hotkey1=0002FFFF
Hotkey2=0003FFFF
Hotkey3=0004FFFF
Hotkey4=0005FFFF
Hotkey5=0006FFFF
Hotkey6=0007FFFF
Hotkey7=0008FFFF
Hotkey8=0009FFFF
Jump=0047FF0D
Menu Mode=000FFF0B
QuickLoad=0043FFFF
QuickSave=003FFFFF
Ready Item=0013030C
Rest=0014FF07
Run=0049FFFF
Slide Left=004BFF17
Slide Right=004DFF16
Toggle POV=0021FF0F
Use=00FF0011
Vats=0052FF0E
 
[Decals]
uMaxDecals=100
 
[Display]
bDrawShadows=1
bFull Screen=1
bTransparencyMultisampling=1
fDecalLOD1=1000.0000
fDecalLOD2=1500.0000
fGamma=1.0000
fLightLODStartFade=3500
fShadowLODStartFade=1000
fSpecularLODStartFade=2000
iActorShadowCountExt=6
iActorShadowCountInt=6
iAdapter=0
iMaxAnisotropy=0
iMaxDecalsPerFrame=10
iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=3
iMultiSample=2
iScreenShotIndex=3
iShadowFilter=2
iShadowMapResolution=1024
iShadowMode=3
iSize H=1440
iSize W=2560
iTexMipMapMinimum=0
iTexMipMapSkip=0
iWaterMultiSamples=4
sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti "
iPresentInterval=1
 
[GamePlay]
bCrossHair=1
bDialogueSubtitles=1
bDisableDynamicCrosshair=0
bGeneralSubtitles=0
bSaveOnInteriorExteriorSwitch=1
bSaveOnRest=0
bSaveOnTravel=0
bSaveOnWait=0
bShowQuestMarkers=1
iDifficulty=2
 
[Grass]
b30GrassVS=0
fGrassStartFadeDistance=18000
 
[imagespace]
bDoDepthOfField=1
iRadialBlurLevel=2
 
[interface]
bDisable360Controller=0
bHelpEnabled=1
fHudOpacity=1.0000
uHUDColor=452952319
uPipboyColor=3321888767
 
[Launcher]
bEnableFileSelection=1
bShowAllResolutions=1
uLastAspectRatio=3
 
[LOD]
fLODFadeOutMultActors=15
fLODFadeOutMultItems=15
fLODFadeOutMultObjects=15
 
[TerrainManager]
fBlockLoadDistance=125000.0000
fBlockLoadDistanceLow=50000
fSplitDistanceMult=1.5
fTreeLoadDistance=40000
 
[Water]
bAutoWaterSilhouetteReflections=0
bForceHighDetailReflections=1
bUseWaterDepth=1
bUseWaterDisplacements=1
bUseWaterReflectionBlur=1
bUseWaterReflections=1
bUseWaterRefractions=1
iWaterBlurAmount=4
iWaterReflectHeight=1024
iWaterReflectWidth=1024

 

[zilav]

I grabbed images for all trees LOD from NifScope without any processing in Photoshop or GIMP, that's why they look so bad. If you can make better ones yourself, I'll gladly replace them on FO3LODGen page.

The ideal solution is to make low poly real 3D meshes instead of flat billboards, but that requires modeling.

[DanielCoffey]

The closeup trees in the FO3LODGEN file are nicely done and correspond exactly to the trees in the foreground. Redoing their mipmaps in Photoshop had no discernible effect on the foreground trees.

 

If I look at the background "fat" trees then they don't match any of the textures in FO3LODGEN itself. They seem to originate from the Generated Textures that the script makes. There is a file called ../textures/landscape/lod/wasteland/blocks/WastelandObjectsLOD.dds (and the _n.dds) and it seems to be this file that is used to draw the "fat" trees. I think the second and third levels of mipmap are the culprits and are fairly fuzzy.

 

Where is that texture assembled from and how are its mipmaps generated? It seems to be assembled by the FO3LODGEN script out of components in the main FO3LODGEN mod?

 

EDIT : Scratch that - I created a version of that file without any mipmaps and they were still fat and blocky. It has to be something else.

Edited February 11, 2016 by DanielCoffey

[zilav]

The textures are just bad, that's all. As I said need real 3D LOD meshes like Jacobstown trees in NV.

[DanielCoffey]

This is weird - I created new versions of the FO3LODGEN tree textures with no mipmaps to see if I could work out what was happening and they were still fat and blocky in the distance. As I approached, they moved up the mipmap chain (even though I had not provided mipmaps, getting better in appearance until they switched at the LOD point for the actual models when they looked perfect.

 

There must be some part of this I don't understand.

 

EDIT : I see you are still in discussion about LODs in the TTW LODGEN thread. I'll put this on one side for now and concentrate on my other problem... does my draw distance and grass fade match what you would expect?

Edited February 11, 2016 by DanielCoffey

[DanielCoffey]

Zilav - which texture is used when a tree in the distance is drawn? I mean the low detail "fat" ones?

 

Is it FO3LODGEN's ../textures/landscape/trees/TreeDeadxxLod.dds or is the big ../textures/landscape/lod/wasteland/blocks/WastelandObjectsLOD.dds ?

 

I assume that the WastelandObjectsLOD.dds is constructed by the script from all the other textures but I was planning to look at the mipmap and alpha mask and wondered if it was the single tree or the aggregated texture that was used.

[zilav]

Yes WastelandObjectsLOD is dynamically created atlas from LOD textures used in a worldspace, mipmaps are generated on the fly for it so mipmaps in source LOD textures aren't used.

[DanielCoffey]

I have created some "thinner" textures for the FO3LODGEN trees folder and rebuilt the atlas. I can see the atlas pick up the new textures. The bare trees and stumps are fine - I just redid the  DEAD leafy trees and they are a little better but I still have what appears to be a short draw distance for the detailed LODs.

 

How far off do you think the TTW team is in creating low poly models for the trees?

[zilav]

Short draw distance is dreaded uGridsToLoad in Bethesda games, nothing we can do about it. The only way to make seemless transitions between LOD and full models is to create high quality LOD models that look very close.

 

The current kind of "hub" for new LOD models is this mod

https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/61206/

Try to contact it's author since he stated intention to make trees at some point.

[Adonis_VII]

How far off do you think the TTW team is in creating low poly models for the trees?

No work as far as I've heard. They still have to make them for New Vegas Uncut too, which is one of the main reasons it hasn't left github for nexus.

[DanielCoffey]

Another question on the subject of LODs... are there supposed to be LODs for Big Town?

 

Approaching from the direction of Megaton and Springvale I clearly see the Red Rocket station as I pass under the Raider highway but there is just a large blank ground square with LOD roadways marked where Big Town is supposed to be. As I approach some ruined trucks, the very edge of the Big Town boundary fence pops in from nothing. A few more steps and the rest of Big Town pops in from nothing. I would have expected shack LODs at least.

 

I have pictures of the effect if needed.

[Adonis_VII]

I know Arefu doesn't have LOD (anything using Megaton buildings won't) and I believe I remember Big Town not having much either last time I played.

[zilav]

I have pictures of the effect if needed.

Big Town doesn't have LOD models. You can quickly check vanilla LOD yourself by renaming meshes\landscape\lod folder to "_lod" for example.

[DanielCoffey]

Ah, so it isn't just me then. Thanks for the confirmation.

[zilav]

Ah, so it isn't just me then. Thanks for the confirmation.

The best confirmation is vanilla LOD itself, or rather it's absense I'd say