pack A Real Explorer's Guide to Skyrim

[Ganda]

So is the idea to have a merged mod in the REGS patch that replaces multiple esps? Or will this be a guide only for users to do their own merges?

We're already crossing dodgy ground with everything that is being currently hosted, I can't even imagine merged plugins :p So yes, hopefully, a guide.

 

@redirishlord Overwriting as in overwriting records. Not sure about navmesh, not even sure how it is displayed in TES5Edit.

 

So, the way the merge plugin currently works (mind, this has all come from personal usage, I don't really understand scripting AT ALL xD) is just adding all records to a new plugin (the merged one), independent of overlapping records (that's why he says it's better not to merge patches with their masters unless you know what you're doing - it requires a lot of manual fixing).

 

After such a merge, you'll have on the same plugin the same record (object, npc, activatable, etc) multiple times in all its versions, and only one of them (random from what I could've seen) will be shown in game. p.e. a master places 7 barrels in a given area, a patch changes them to crates, in the merge plugin you'll have 14 records in the worldspace, and some will be barrels and some crates.

 

In this example, if you wanted to correct it, you'd have to manually delete the barrel records in the worldspace and check that nothing has been disturbed while you did that (just check for errors). This is a quite simple straightforward example, but to give you a real situtation, in RBB, in the REGS merge, just after applying the script, a row boat turns into a barrel, a clam and a salmon both turn to long boats (they even changed classes).

 

Hope you understood, I have a huge tendency to overexplain everything xD 

Edited August 29, 2014 by Gandaganza

[keithinhanoi]

We're already crossing dodgy ground with everything that is being currently hosted, I can't even imagine merged plugins :p So yes, hopefully, a guide.

 

@redirishlord Overwriting as in overwriting records. Not sure about navmesh, not even sure how it is displayed in TES5Edit.

 

So, the way the merge plugin currently works (mind, this has all come from personal usage, I don't really understand scripting AT ALL xD) is just adding all records to a new plugin (the merged one), independent of overlapping records (that's why he says it's better not to merge patches with their masters unless you know what you're doing - it requires a lot of manual fixing).

 

After such a merge, you'll have on the same plugin the same record (object, npc, activatable, etc) multiple times in all its versions, and only one of them (random from what I could've seen) will be shown in game. p.e. a master places 7 barrels in a given area, a patch changes them to crates, in the merge plugin you'll have 14 records in the worldspace, and some will be barrels and some crates.

 

In this example, if you wanted to correct it, you'd have to manually delete the barrel records in the worldspace and check that nothing has been disturbed while you did that (just check for errors). This is a quite simple straightforward example, but to give you a real situtation, in RBB, in the REGS merge, just after applying the script, a row boat turns into a barrel, a clam and a salmon both turn to long boats (they even changed classes).

 

Hope you understood, I have a huge tendency to overexplain everything xD

 

Actually, what you explained only happens if you leave the Renumber Form IDs option turned on.

 

If you turn that option off, you can merge patches together with their master(s), and for any FormID modified by a patch, the merged plugin will contain the data from the last-loaded patch that makes changes to that record.

 

You will only run into problems with the renumber FormIDs option turned off if you try to merge the plugins from two different mods which add identical new FormIDs that are meant to be unique only to that mod.  What you would want to do in that case is merge the patches for each mod with the mod's plugin - with renumbering turned off, and then after that merge the resulting merged mod plus patch plugins together with each other, with renumbering turned on.

 

In terms of how this could help with REGS, it means that you could create special patch plugins which move, change, add, or disable objects / NPCs / etc in the different mods of the REGS pack, and instruct users how to merge the patches with the mod plugins in order to create REGS inter-compatible "versions" of the mods. This avoids having to offer full replacement plugins for download, but of course it would still be necessary to get the authors' blessings on offering such patches modifying their work in the first place.

 

It does put more work on the user / player's side, though.

[Ganda]

Actually, what you explained only happens if you leave the Renumber Form IDs option turned on.

 

If you turn that option off, you can merge patches together with their master(s), and for any FormID modified by a patch, the merged plugin will contain the data from the last-loaded patch that makes changes to that record.

Well, I just tested that xD Here, all you need to install. I used all the default options in the script, if there are options that have better results please tell me, I would honestly love not to have all this work after merging something.

 

And just in case you miss the errors (just go to solitudedocks01, it's where their most visible) I'll put them here, I find them really amusing because they're so stupid :p So, first, where did the boat go? Oh that's right, it turned into a barrel! And a giant clam? (the salmon was actually covered by BFT crates that should've been deleted) They became moar boats!

 

But seriously, if you know of a way to prevent this, please share, you'll be saving a lot of trouble to us and, possibly, hopefully, in a somewhat close or distant future, REGS users :p

[hishutup]

That is actually funny... Hmm... 

When I was merging mods for skyrim I found that many didn't work as planed even though all of the records were correct.

Here are a few examples:

Realistic water two main esp -> missing water planes

Skyfalls and skymills -> double windmills (the original tiny one wasn't disabled even though in the esp it was) and waterfalls were blocks of ice

    It kinda worked if the esp was flaged as master file... why? IDK...

 

There were more but I can't remember them.

I found that merging in groups helped. For one group I have certain merging option select and for the main merge I did renumber formIds in the drop down box rather than in the merging script. I found that there were way fewer error and incorrect references...

 

Personally I think the script assumes The mod overwriting a record removes conflict rather than fixing them... 

Maybe making merging patches will help even the process.

 

 

As for preventing these errors... Make a patch that is made for merging...

 

Oh, if youre merging files that overwrite leveled list make sure you create a merging patch or make a special bashed patch that your are going to merge into the file...

Yes, it gets tricky to explain why or how but just take it with a grain of salt

Edited August 29, 2014 by hishutup

[redirishlord]

Okay, I finally found the bad apple in my short list (Birds & Distant Detail, I'm looking at you), here's the list I was able to crunch from a REGS - SR:LE install

[spoiler=REGS SR:LE Renumbered & Merged]fFast travel Speed Mult_4Appropriately Attired JarlsFootprintsBrowsBeardsFootprints - AshThe Eyes of BeautyHDT PE items MTMChesko Lorebased Loading ScreensThe Eyes of Beauty - Elves EditionRace Menu OverlayTavern Clothes - MTMSulfur Rocks83Willows 101 BugsMoss RocksXCESAsh RocksMoss Rocks DBDead Body CollisionEpisode ParallaxUnderstone Keep RepairSkyfalls + Skymills DG DB FS WTSkyfalls DB FS small waterfallsHF Chimneys FSSky Haven Temle M&M3ORS Chapters LinkerORS Dremora UpdateSMIM Merged AllSkyrim Improved Puddles DG DB HFTOS Laintar Dale HFTOS Oakwood HFTOS Amber GuardTOS Granite HallBetter City Entrances - All in oneDrinking Fountans of SkyrimSkyrim Flora OverhaulQuest and the Realms of the DaedraHF Chimneys - ETaCPP Ogmunds TombHigh Hrothgar OverhaulPP Windcaller PassPP Engelmann Rest

 

 

if I don't renumber the FormIDs I get a fatal error when I try to error check, something Ogmund's Tomb related. The list above has a null value error related to a TOS mods Skeever Poison? This is just a quick and dirty, no special checks just ran that list through the merge script with the default boxes checked (the delay was from the trial and error trying to figure out what would play nice).

[keithinhanoi]

Well, I just tested that xD Here, all you need to install. I used all the default options in the script, if there are options that have better results please tell me, I would honestly love not to have all this work after merging something.

 

And just in case you miss the errors (just go to solitudedocks01, it's where their most visible) I'll put them here, I find them really amusing because they're so stupid :p So, first, where did the boat go? Oh that's right, it turned into a barrel! And a giant clam? (the salmon was actually covered by BFT crates that should've been deleted) They became moar boats!

 

But seriously, if you know of a way to prevent this, please share, you'll be saving a lot of trouble to us and, possibly, hopefully, in a somewhat close or distant future, REGS users :p

Wow - could you have picked a slightly less complex example??

 

There's a couple things I'm not currently using there, so I'd have to get it all installed first to see what's happening, and to try merging it all myself.

 

It looks like you merged all RBB plugins and any RBB patches together, is that right?

 

I'll see what I can figure out.

 

Also, are you friends at all with Noobzor? He's extremely well-versed in TES5Edit and merging, and might be able to clear things up with regards to the troubles you're having.

[redirishlord]

Here's a more complete list of compatible [spoiler=REGS+SR:LE mods merged]fFast travel Speed Mult_4Appropriately Attired JarlsSoul Gems DifferFootprintsClams drop pearlsBrowsBeardsFootprints - AshThe Eyes of BeautyHDT PE items MTMChesko Lorebased Loading ScreensThe Eyes of Beauty - Elves EditionRace Menu OverlayTavern Clothes - MTMSulfur Rocks83Willows 101 BugsMoss RocksXCESAsh RocksMoss Rocks DBDead Body CollisionEpisode ParallaxBook Covers SkyrimSkyfalls + Skymills DG DB FS WTSkyfalls DB FS small waterfallsHF Chimneys FSUnderstone Keep RepairIHSSBCS CCOR PatchSky Haven Temle M&M3Birds HFORS Chapters LinkerTCIY BCS PatchDragon Shout VoiceORS Dremora UpdateDBMiscRandom ThunderSkyrim Improved Puddles DG DB HFTOS Laintar Dale HFTOS Oakwood HFTOS Amber GuardTOS Granite HallBetter City Entrances - All in oneDrinking Fountans of SkyrimSkyrim Flora OverhaulHF Chimneys - ETaCPP Ogmunds TombHigh Hrothgar OverhaulBlock SparklesGildergreen RegrownPP Windcaller PassPP Engelmann Rest

 

 

I pulled "and the Realms of the Daedra" which provided theproblematic Skeever Poison. I added Book Covers Skyrim, its patches, various sound plugins.

[Ganda]

Wow - could you have picked a slightly less complex example??

 

There's a couple things I'm not currently using there, so I'd have to get it all installed first to see what's happening, and to try merging it all myself.

 

It looks like you merged all RBB plugins and any RBB patches together, is that right?

 

I'll see what I can figure out.

 

Also, are you friends at all with Noobzor? He's extremely well-versed in TES5Edit and merging, and might be able to clear things up with regards to the troubles you're having.

That is what I work with xD  Yes, that is the REGS merge, except the HF plugin. 

 

The name is familiar so he must've posted something intelligent either here or in the nexus :p 

 

Just to make everything clear, this was just to "prove" that the script can't handle overwriting properly (at least not 100%) so avoid these kinds of situations when considering merging (looking at you eproctor :p I'll take a look through those massive lists in a moment)

 

About my merge files, I just went ahead and fixed them in CK, TES5Edit did not show any errors at all (for anyone who's having trouble in this part) I'm not really having any troubles, but thanks for the suggestion either way :p I'll keep him in mind when I need a TES5Edit slave :D

[redirishlord]

Guilty as charged, my goal was: to find all suitable for merging, discuss and troubleshoot, have the simplest merge instructions for the most gain.

I avoided any mod package with an MCM (they seem to get "corrupted" when observed in game), a loose scripts folder (concerned about scripts depending on a specific plugin name), loose textures and meshes (didn't want to have those in the overwrite feet needing to be made into a "mod"). In general I tried to anticipate any plugins that would fight over navmesh, but that was just guesswork.

[Maledark]

In the REGS - SRLE Special Instructions & Compatibility Guide, the Weathered Road Signs esp for Expanded Towns and Cities (optional file) installation should be mentionned. My bad, thanks neo.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Maledark

[Neovalen]

Not really... I don't use the esp.

[keithinhanoi]

That is what I work with xD  Yes, that is the REGS merge, except the HF plugin. 

 

The name is familiar so he must've posted something intelligent either here or in the nexus :p 

 

Just to make everything clear, this was just to "prove" that the script can't handle overwriting properly (at least not 100%) so avoid these kinds of situations when considering merging (looking at you eproctor :p I'll take a look through those massive lists in a moment)

 

About my merge files, I just went ahead and fixed them in CK, TES5Edit did not show any errors at all (for anyone who's having trouble in this part) I'm not really having any troubles, but thanks for the suggestion either way :p I'll keep him in mind when I need a TES5Edit slave :D

Noobzor has helped out with some things in ETaC, and you'll find he posts quite a lot on the Nexus comments thread for the TES5Edit Plugin Merge Script.

 

Anyhow, I think I know why you're having troubles with the merges to work correctly.

 

Whenever merging plugins that provide patch modifications for one or more masters, it's critical that they are all grouped together when loaded up in TES5Edit. So in other words, you can't have any plugins that aren't going to merged sitting sandwiched between plugins that will be merged.

 

In most cases (but not all, in my experience), users will see an error when they try to run the script when there are other plugins somewhere between that are not part of the merge. 

 

If you read through the TES5Edit Plugin Merge Script comments thread, you will see that Matortheeternal confirms grouping the plugins together with nothing else between as good practice, and in fact says it's best just to select only the plugins you are planning to merge when starting TES5Edit, and let the program automatically load any corresponding master plugins.

 

Although I've not gotten to a point where I needed to do it yet, it seems that this same logic should be applied when merging patches with their masters, and even merging several groups of plugins that serve as masters to other patch plugins.

 

So, I did a test by installing RBB in modular "mode" with everything you had in your example, except the Wyrmstooth patch. After sorting my plugins, I needed to manually rearrange the load order so everything RBB was in a group, and loading after the last non-RBB master called out by any member of that group.

 

I checked in WyreBash for any out-of-order master lists, and noticed that the masters for the Better Fast Travel + RBB Long Boats patch were inversed. However, since I didn't want to merge BFT as well, I just left that - but it's important to note that the patch changes may not be quite right in the merged plugin, depending on how the patch edits were done. Everything else checked out fine, so I loaded them up in TES5Edit, so the left-pane looked like this:

 

 

Then, I ran the plugin merge script on all the RBB plugins, with the default settings - so FormID renumbering was ON. FormID renumbering would be safe, because if there are any new FormIDs added by RBB Row Boats, Large Boats and Long Boats that are identical after the first two prefix digits, they would need to be renumbered so you get unique records as expected.

 

Checking in game, nothing has been changed into an incorrect object at the Solitude docks, but I did find a couple strange things there:

 

The first thing was a duplicated rowboat object, with the first instance being FormID XX0299D - which is placed by Dawnguard, and then patched by RBB, and the second instance being FormID XX16854, placed by BFT, but not patched by RBB. If you can believe it, I think this is just something that is an oversight, because when I checked all of your modular separate plugins from RBB v2.3.2 there is no RBB Rowboat + BFT patch that disables the BFT-placed boat (FormID XX16854) in favor of the Dawnguard placed one. So I guess you can consider finding that duplicate rowboat a "bug" report! ;)

 

The second thing was a long boat further out in the bay placed by Skyrim (FormID 00026109), removed by REGS - Better Docks, and then placed back with a bobbing boat by RBB. Again, I checked the individual RBB plugins, and to maintain the changes made by Better Docks, the record should have been carried forward into the RBB Long Boats - REGS.esp plugin as disabled. Just to be sure, I also tried looking at the "normal" and Sea of Ghosts compatible versions of the modular Better Docks for Solitude, and they both disable that same long boat.

 

So that's two bug reports for RBB. :D  Here are pics showing them with RBB active, and not active:

 

 

Looking into all of this has taken quite a bit of time, so I'll stop with looking at the Solitude docks. But as far as I can tell, the merged RBB plugin I made is working as it should.

 

It's easy to reproduce the merged patch as I've outlined above, but I can PM my resulting merged plugin if you like. Just let me know.

Edited August 30, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[Nearox]

@keith: Thanks to you too for sharing your knowledge on merging REGS esps, and for the detailed report! 

 

@everyone: I know the conflict resolution section of REGS-SRLE Compatibility Guide needs updating, but I don't have the time during the next few days. I also cannot give you my own .esp at the moment because a lot of non-SRLE/REGS mods are also in the compatibility file as masters. I had used it some weeks ago for testing some things and wasn't paying attention to saving it to a new esp. Either way, at some point I'll remove the conflict resolution part and simply provide an esp because 1) I personally CBA to write it all down and 2) many people prefer an esp anyways. Just know I can't do it right now, so please don't send me PMs anymore about it :P 

[Ganda]

@redirishlord I haven't had a functioning load order in quite a while, but from what I remember some MCM mods could be safely merged, such as most of isoku's (the only ones I remember). Plus, as long as loose files don't overwrite each other then there is no problem to merge stuff (if using MO no problem even if they overwrite). But scripts and navmesh, you are right about those :p Nice work! :D

 

@keithinhanoi Awesome! You have actually found the issue, thanks :p About those two boats, they aren't actually bugs, but if you want to talk about it just pm me (that doesn't have anything to do with REGS anymore :p) About the bft patch, for merging, just sort masters inside TES5Edit, it'll work, that was what Neo taught me some time ago (couldn't find the conversation :/)

 

 

 

@everyone Me and Nearox have decided to make our testing results available in real-time (you can see the results just as we finish testing). Here is the flickr gallery where they are all stored (both singular mods and mod combinations). For anyone helping us with the merges, don't forget to take a look at these last 3 pages as they contain a lot of tips and good practices overall from people who actually know how to work with TES5Edit :p

 

Hurray for the glorious REGS users!

[redirishlord]

I think you are correct about isoku's MCM mods, but in general I wind up with corrupted menus if I try to incorporate any plugins with MCM.

I'm not sure about scripts, but enough folks wiser than I in the ways of modding have warned against it that I took heed.

Keith nailed it with the advice about not having masters hiding out in the TES5Edit load order. I strategically loaded all my suitable mods into an early and late group making sure that any masters were entirely before the merge group in order. Here's the result (not for the faint of heart)

[spoiler=Master Merge Early]H17c-Argonian FinsN12i-Insanity's SorrowF06d-Episode ParallaxN28b-UNP Boots 4H03-83Willows 101 BugsN03-Aradia Kato OutfitH16f-Compatibility Brutish + Refined ArgoniansH17d-dredtentN23c-skyforged weaponsN31-UNP Smithy SexN08b-Ghosu Weapon PAck 1G13c-Ash RocksQ10c-Treacleman Moonpath PatchE07-Chesko Lorebased Loading ScreensN33a-Warmonger Armory VanillaH08a-BrowsH15b-HDT PE items MTMH19a-The Eyes of BeautyI03c-Lefthand RingsD25-No Combat Boundaries LegendaryJ04-DG Rune Weapons FX ReplacerI05e-01ERAN12a-The BastardM02a-Clams drop pearlsE18b-Equipable MapN22-Scarlet Dawn ArmorD01-Appropriately Attired JarlsD06-Dead Body CollisionN33b-Warmonger Armory DLCH24c-Merida HairG06a-FootprintsG06b-Footprints - AshH04-BeardsN02b-HDT Test SkirtsS03g-Bloodthirst Vampire FeedingM01b-Arrow Duration 60L17-Symphonies of SkyrimN10a-Gladiator ArmorG13d-Sulfur RocksQ01b-Neutral HjerimN30a-MashUp UNPG13a-Moss RocksN18a-NorthgirlE10b-Race Menu OverlayH08b-SG EyebrowsM34c-Interactive Clutter RecipesG13b-Moss Rocks DBM20c-SkyTEST USKPH20a-Race Menu Plugin XPMSEN24-TS WhipcaneI18b-Tavern Clothes - MTMH24f-Test MeridaH19b-The Eyes of Beauty - Elves EditionN26-UNP Academy DropoutN28a-UNP Boots 2N28c-UNP Leather ClothesK09a-WEBS ExtendedM23b-Yield 2.0N29b-Calyps InvestigatorN09a-el Gilded DoubletD07b-fFast travel Speed Mult_4D24-Humans drop human partsN01-AethEbonyCrownReplacerF03a-Skyfalls + Skymills DG DB FS WTF03a-Skyfalls DB FS small waterfallsR11b-Falskaar WildlifeM26b-Become a HighwaymanH14b-Ethereal Elven OverhaulL08-Random ThunderL07-IHSSK21b-Book Covers SkyrimM28a-Campfire CookingR02k-Understone Keep RepairM28a-Campfire Cooking AlchemyQ13-Solsteim The Lost LevelsG08b-Weathered Road SignsN14a-Lore Weapon ExpansionK20b-Better White PhialN04a-Black Sacrament DB ReplacerI03c-Lefthand Rings DGM28c-Cooking Expanded DBD27-Size Does MatterD26-RV MarkersM28d-Cooking AlchemyK21c-BCS - ISB PatchK21a-Improved Skill BooksK21c-BCS CCOR PatchR19b-MAS Immersion PatchK21c-TCIY BCS PatchN33a-Warmonger Armory Leveled ListM28a-Campfire Cooking DBM28b-Cooking ExpandedM28c-Cooking Expanded HFM28a-Campfire Cooking DG

 

[spoiler=Master Merge Late]R21f-ORS Dremora UpdateI12a-Sky Haven Temple M&M3H07-Birds HFN14c-Lore Weapon Expansion Daedric CrescentN14b-Lore Weapon Expansion GoldbrandQ08-The Honored DeadR21e-ORS Chapters LinkerG21-Skyrim Improved Puddles DG DB HFR13b-TOS Laintar Dale HFR13b-TOS Oakwood HFQ09-LoraineD22-DBMiscL05-Dragon Shout VoiceK14-Radiant & Unique Potions Poisons & BoozeD28-Waterbreathing Breathless EmergeN12c-Third Era - DwemerN25a-Unique UniquesJ07b-dD DG DB EBT SIC PatchL18-Immersive Sounds CompendiumK19a-Soul Gems DifferL18-ISC AOS PatchL18-ISC CCO PatchL18-ISC EBT PatchN12f-Insanity's ShieldsN21a-Scoped BowsH14c-EEO USP PatchN07-Jet Dwemer BowsR13b-TOS Amber GuardP01b-Legendary Companion PerkE17-Dungeon Quest AwarenessR13b-TOS Granite HallM02c-Ingredients of TamrielG02a-Skyrim Flora OverhaulC07b-Snowbound AcresD21-Cloaks USKP PatchR09b-HF Chimneys FSR11f-Falskaar CloudsN27c-Light Blades ArmorN05a-Bob's ArmoryK13-Pilgrims DelightN02a-Amiella OutfitQ06a-bhabhilonR07a-Hold Border BannersR09b-HF Chimneys - ETaCK19b-Oblivion Black Soul Gem CreationR20a-PP Ogmunds TombR04a-High Hrothgar OverhaulQ14-Sword of SigdanQ15a-AB TelVanni HouseE11a-Race Compatibility OSKP OverrideJ09-Block SparklesQ06b-Dwemer AutobladeM07-Gildergreen RegrownN04c-Black Sacrament ArmorN06-Bouncy Bodices Booties Belts StockingsN13a-Lady of DeathN32-Ursine Armor PackR20b-PP Windcaller PassN17-Medusa and Drakul ArmorsR20c-PP Engelmann RestN12b-Insanity's ChrysamereR10b-RBB Rowboats HF HotfixN12k-Insanity's Umbra SwordN12e-Insanity's Empire LongswordsS01a-AS - LALS01b-Starting Spell ChoiceS01c-Patch SSC - LAL