Clarification on Mods with INI Configurations

[Brambleshire]

Greetings kind folks,

Could you please clarify what exactly I'm supposed to do for STEP mods that have INI configurations such as Fuz Ro D-oh and SSE Display Tweaks? The instructions here are just a little vague here.

1. Click  > Create empty mod, and name it (CONFIG) Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice.
2. Copy the entire SKSE/ path from the source mod into the new mod.
3. Delete all content under SKSE/Plugins/ except the INI file.
4. Prioritize this configuration mod just after the source mod in MO such that the INI will override that of the source mod.
   
   On step 2 where it says copy the SKSE/ path, what exactly is the path? I thought a path was the a / b/ c/ d of where a file is located? I took it to mean to copy everything inside the SKSE folder. 
   
   On step 3 it says to delete everything except the .ini. But in which folder do I delete it? The original or the new mod?
   
   If I understand 2 correctly, there would be no .ini in the new mod because I only copied the SKSE/ path. Sorry I'm silly, but could someone please elaborate a little on what exactly I'm supposed to do? Thanks again.

[z929669]

1 hour ago, Brambleshire said:

On step 2 where it says copy the SKSE/ path, what exactly is the path? I thought a path was the a / b/ c/ d of where a file is located? I took it to mean to copy everything inside the SKSE folder.

The "SKSE/ path" is the full contents under and including the SKSE folder. A path is a directory structure.

1 hour ago, Brambleshire said:

On step 3 it says to delete everything except the .ini. But in which folder do I delete it? The original or the new mod?

Since you are creating a mod, why would you alter the original mod?

I will reword the instructions a bit to address what's confusing you.

 

Have another look at the wiki instructions for this mod

[Brambleshire]

So basically, the reason why I am confusing myself is because I was trying to follow those instructions now, instead of later after launching skyrim?

[z929669]

2 hours ago, Brambleshire said:

So basically, the reason why I am confusing myself is because I was trying to follow those instructions now, instead of later after launching skyrim?

Yes, that's probably the case. The INI file for this particular mod isn't generated until you launch the game while this mod is installed.

Doing this is totally optional though. It's just a good practice for anything with an INI a configuration or other editable file shipping with the mod. This way it won't be overwritten when updating and merging the mod. For this mod and others that don't ship with the INI file, it's actually a bit redundant.

[Brambleshire]

Ok, got it. 

Now just to make sure I understand it, let me put it in my own words:
**launched skyrim
1. go back to MO and revisit the mods that have instructions for setting up one of these (CONFIG) XXXX mods. (ie. display tweaks, fuz ro d'oh, etc)
2. copy the entire SKSE path from the original mod folder, into the folder for  the new empty mod I created "(CONFIG) XXXX".
3. Now that I launched the game, I can delete everything under "(CONFIG) XXXX > SKSE > Plugins" that is not a .ini file.

Is that correct so far? 

Well, thats what I've done. 
For the (CONFIG)Display Tweaks folder, i see:
SSEDisplayTweaks.dll 
SSEDisplayTweaks.ini

Therefore I will delete SSEDisplayTweaks.dll. Correct?

Now for the (CONFIG)Fuz ro d'oh folder, i only see:
Fuz Ro D'oh.dll

Why is there no .ini here? Is something wrong?

[z929669]

4 hours ago, Brambleshire said:

Ok, got it. 

Now just to make sure I understand it, let me put it in my own words:
**launched skyrim
1. go back to MO and revisit the mods that have instructions for setting up one of these (CONFIG) XXXX mods. (ie. display tweaks, fuz ro d'oh, etc)
2. copy the entire SKSE path from the original mod folder, into the folder for  the new empty mod I created "(CONFIG) XXXX".
3. Now that I launched the game, I can delete everything under "(CONFIG) XXXX > SKSE > Plugins" that is not a .ini file.

Is that correct so far? 

Well, thats what I've done. 
For the (CONFIG)Display Tweaks folder, i see:
SSEDisplayTweaks.dll 
SSEDisplayTweaks.ini

Therefore I will delete SSEDisplayTweaks.dll. Correct?

Now for the (CONFIG)Fuz ro d'oh folder, i only see:
Fuz Ro D'oh.dll

Why is there no .ini here? Is something wrong?

Most people will find the runtime-generated files in Overwrite (unless they are assigning a mod to hold all such runtime-generated files, which I do) once the game is launched. Such files+paths can then be moved into the custom 'config' mod from Overwrite. This only matters if you edit said files with custom changes and prevents losing said changes if the mod is updated or makes it simpler to keep track of your mod-editable files.

For Fuz, the comparison would look like this:

 

For mods that ship with the config file, you would obviously see this file in both mods, but your custom mod overrides the original so that you have one safe place to make changes without worry of losing them (or just for keeping track of these things).

 

 

[ButchDiavolo]

6 hours ago, Brambleshire said:

Ok, got it. 

Now just to make sure I understand it, let me put it in my own words:
**launched skyrim
1. go back to MO and revisit the mods that have instructions for setting up one of these (CONFIG) XXXX mods. (ie. display tweaks, fuz ro d'oh, etc)
2. copy the entire SKSE path from the original mod folder, into the folder for  the new empty mod I created "(CONFIG) XXXX".
3. Now that I launched the game, I can delete everything under "(CONFIG) XXXX > SKSE > Plugins" that is not a .ini file.

Is that correct so far? 

Well, thats what I've done. 
For the (CONFIG)Display Tweaks folder, i see:
SSEDisplayTweaks.dll 
SSEDisplayTweaks.ini

Therefore I will delete SSEDisplayTweaks.dll. Correct?

Now for the (CONFIG)Fuz ro d'oh folder, i only see:
Fuz Ro D'oh.dll

Why is there no .ini here? Is something wrong?

Adding my two cents.

It looks like you misunderstood the directions (which is easy to do unfortunately). It is rather complicated for new modders. I will try to simplify it a bit.

1. You create the (CONFIG) mods and do nothing with them as of yet (so no moving of files). The reason being that there are no files created yet to put in them. The config files are only created after you run Skyrim the first time. <-- This is the part most people misunderstand.

2. *launch skyrim*

3. Go back to MO and you will see that in "overwrite" you now have the created config files. These are the files you need to move to their respective (CONFIG) mods, keeping the file structure (SKSE/plugin/...). And that is it.

IMPORTANT: Never delete the dll files (i.e. SSEDisplayTweaks.dll) The dll files are what makes the mods work. In these case: no dll-files means no mod.

[Brambleshire]

LOL ok now I think I got it. I'm just going to take whatever is in overwrite and put it in the CONFIG mod folder. Thats it.

So why do the instructions say something about deleting stuff?
 

1. Delete all content under SKSE/Plugins/ except the INI file.

What exactly, am I deleting here? and to confirm this is the folder of the CONFIG mod right?

Also, if I add additional mods, how do I know which ones it is a good idea to do this with? Do I want to do this with every mod that puts stuff in overwrite?

I'm sorry to be a pain, but something about the way its written down is so unclear to me and my minds all scrambled.

Thanks again yall!

Edited February 27 by Brambleshire

[ButchDiavolo]

2 hours ago, Brambleshire said:

LOL ok now I think I got it. I'm just going to take whatever is in overwrite and put it in the CONFIG mod folder. Thats it.

So why do the instructions say something about deleting stuff?
 

1. Delete all content under SKSE/Plugins/ except the INI file.

What exactly, am I deleting here? and to confirm this is the folder of the CONFIG mod right?

Also, if I add additional mods, how do I know which ones it is a good idea to do this with? Do I want to do this with every mod that puts stuff in overwrite?

I'm sorry to be a pain, but something about the way its written down is so unclear to me and my minds all scrambled.

Thanks again yall!

You are not being a pain. You have questions, we have answers. Except in this case:

Delete all content under SKSE/Plugins/ except the INI file.

I actually have no idea what is meant by that. It is very... ambivalent. I can't check in my loadorder right now, because I made a booboo and am reinstalling everything (again). But, the only thing that should end up in the CONFIG mod is the ini file. Nothing else. I guess that is what is meant.

As for the Overwrite folder: it is considered "good modding practise" to have an empty overwrite. So yes, always make a CONFIG mod for every mod that puts files in Overwrite. There aren't many mods that put files in Overwrite nowadays and those that do usually put ini or other configuration files there.

An alternative to creating separate config mods is creating an empty mod called SKSE Output and dropping all the configuration files in that. it as the same effect, but it is all in one place instead of separate CONFIG mods. But, STEP advises separate CONFIG mods so perhaps it is better to stick to the official line, especially if you are a novice modder.

[Greg]

56 minutes ago, ButchDiavolo said:

An alternative to creating separate config mods is creating an empty mod called SKSE Output and dropping all the configuration files in that. it as the same effect, but it is all in one place instead of separate CONFIG mods. But, STEP advises separate CONFIG mods so perhaps it is better to stick to the official line, especially if you are a novice modder.

I just setup the skse64_loader.exe executable configuration to create new files in a mod named SKSE Output and setup the SSEEdit.exe executable to create new files in a mod named SSEEdit Output. This way pretty much everything goes into an appropriate output mod without having to fiddle with the files in Overwrite. Technically it's not as clean as @z929669 recommends, but it's easier and serves mostly the same purpose.

[z929669]

5 hours ago, Greg said:

I just setup the skse64_loader.exe executable configuration to create new files in a mod named SKSE Output and setup the SSEEdit.exe executable to create new files in a mod named SSEEdit Output. This way pretty much everything goes into an appropriate output mod without having to fiddle with the files in Overwrite. Technically it's not as clean as @z929669 recommends, but it's easier and serves mostly the same purpose.

I do the same, and it's probably something we should add to the guide. We've discussed it before though, and I recall it being a sticky point for some of the other curators who advocate using Overwrite. Overwrite never gets used in my setup.

 

6 hours ago, ButchDiavolo said:

Delete all content under SKSE/Plugins/ except the INI file.

This was the convoluted compromise outcome. The idea is to make it simple by avoiding recreation of the directory structure. Effectively, install the same mod twice under two different names (original and CONFIG) and simply delete all of the folders/files that are not wanted in the 'config' version. This is arguably less error prone than recreating the dir structure manually.

I advocate doing what Greg mentioned and not even creating the somewhat redundant "CONFIG" mods. Simple. I actually send all of my SKSE output into my SKSE64 mod, because when it's updated, only the Scripts folder is touched, and none of the runtime output we are discussing conflicts with this. So whether or not you manually install SKSE scripts or install/merge with MO, it works (now that SKSE is on Nexus with "Mod Manager Download" option). Even my grass cache output lands in my SKSE mod.

This is what I'd like to recommend for all of our applicable Bethesda guides. We've discussed this before, and I got pushback at the time from other admins :\ The argument was that if it goes into Overwrite, it forces the user to consider it and it's source so that it could be dealt with accordingly. Meh. It's always runtime output related to Script Extender when following our guides. EDIT: Actually, I think the full argument is to leverage the built-in MO mechanism in dealing with this output (MO exclamation warning indicator when content is detected in Overwirte forces the user to acknowledge and deal with it on a case-by-case basis).

Otherwise, one could just use "Create mod" from Overwrite when something winds up there. I don't like this, because it's possible to get a mixed bag of stuff in Overwrite such that the mod being created is also a variable mixed bag. Sending all such runtime output to the Script Extender mod is the cleanest approach, IMO and applies to most Bethesda games, IIRC. Sending to a separate Script Extender Output mod also works fine, but it is one additional mod and basically redundant.

There are many ways to skin this cat, and I'm all for removing the CONFIG mod instructions and anyting having to do with Overwrite maintenance from our guides.

EDIT2: Is it still even necessary to create the SKSE.ini file and populate it as such (see below)? Is the same true for the other Bethesda games utilizing Script Extender variants??

[ButchDiavolo]

6 hours ago, z929669 said:

I do the same, and it's probably something we should add to the guide. We've discussed it before though, and I recall it being a sticky point for some of the other curators who advocate using Overwrite. Overwrite never gets used in my setup.

 

This was the convoluted compromise outcome. The idea is to make it simple by avoiding recreation of the directory structure. Effectively, install the same mod twice under two different names (original and CONFIG) and simply delete all of the folders/files that are not wanted in the 'config' version. This is arguably less error prone than recreating the dir structure manually.

I advocate doing what Greg mentioned and not even creating the somewhat redundant "CONFIG" mods. Simple. I actually send all of my SKSE output into my SKSE64 mod, because when it's updated, only the Scripts folder is touched, and none of the runtime output we are discussing conflicts with this. So whether or not you manually install SKSE scripts or install/merge with MO, it works (now that SKSE is on Nexus with "Mod Manager Download" option). Even my grass cache output lands in my SKSE mod.

This is what I'd like to recommend for all of our applicable Bethesda guides. We've discussed this before, and I got pushback at the time from other admins :\ The argument was that if it goes into Overwrite, it forces the user to consider it and it's source so that it could be dealt with accordingly. Meh. It's always runtime output related to Script Extender when following our guides. EDIT: Actually, I think the full argument is to leverage the built-in MO mechanism in dealing with this output (MO exclamation warning indicator when content is detected in Overwirte forces the user to acknowledge and deal with it on a case-by-case basis).

Otherwise, one could just use "Create mod" from Overwrite when something winds up there. I don't like this, because it's possible to get a mixed bag of stuff in Overwrite such that the mod being created is also a variable mixed bag. Sending all such runtime output to the Script Extender mod is the cleanest approach, IMO and applies to most Bethesda games, IIRC. Sending to a separate Script Extender Output mod also works fine, but it is one additional mod and basically redundant.

There are many ways to skin this cat, and I'm all for removing the CONFIG mod instructions and anyting having to do with Overwrite maintenance from our guides.

EDIT2: Is it still even necessary to create the SKSE.ini file and populate it as such (see below)? Is the same true for the other Bethesda games utilizing Script Extender variants??

I (vaguely) remember that during LE times there were many more mods that put files into Overwrite, not just SKSE mod configs. I believe Racemenu was one. So at that time it would make sense to keep an eye on Overwrite and move the output files around accordingly. But these days it is just SKSE outputs, so an SKSE Output quasi-mod would make more sense. After the first time of putting those files in SKSE Output, you can basically forget about it.

Putting it in the SKSE64 mod is another option, but personally I think a dedicated output mod would make more sense. i.e. easier to find if needing to check the config files. And of course the naming is an instant reminder of what it is, for newer modders. As the original discussion above shows, the more technical elements of modding can be very confusing. So keeping it as simple as possible would be best.

As far as the SKSE.ini goes, I am not aware that any other mod adds those details to the game? It could be added to SkyrimPrefs.ini, again, I think this is the simplest way of adding them.

 

[Greg]

If @DoubleYou and @TechAngel85 agree, I suggest changing the instructions to so that skse_loader.exe creates files in a new SKSE Output mod. If my Fallout 4 profile, it looks as if may be only MCM/Settings/FO4FixesAndTweaksByAurelianis.ini at the time I setup this profile.

I think the current method is too confusing and is error-prone since it requires moving e.g. SKSE\Plugins\Fuz Ro D'oh.ini to one mod and SKSE\Plugins\SkyrimUncapper.ini to another mod.

[TechAngel85]

6 hours ago, Greg said:

If @DoubleYou and @TechAngel85 agree, I suggest changing the instructions to so that skse_loader.exe creates files in a new SKSE Output mod. If my Fallout 4 profile, it looks as if may be only MCM/Settings/FO4FixesAndTweaksByAurelianis.ini at the time I setup this profile.

I think the current method is too confusing and is error-prone since it requires moving e.g. SKSE\Plugins\Fuz Ro D'oh.ini to one mod and SKSE\Plugins\SkyrimUncapper.ini to another mod.

The only downside that I can think of is if the user ever needs to alter those files, the first place one would think to look is in their respected mod's files (where we place them now). When they aren't there, that would lead to a search of the files, a support topic asking about them, or both. Honestly, it should be very easy to find them using MO wherever they are stored, but not all users are that adept with MO.

[DoubleYou]

I feel that both solutions have drawbacks, and I wish MO2 had more intuitive controls for this situation, but I feel the issue here is simply that the instructions are not as clear as they could be. This is how I would suggest it be written:

1. Double-click Overwrite and navigate to the SKSE/Plugins folder.
2. Drag and drop the Fuz Ro D'oh.ini file onto the Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice mod.

Do note that dragging and dropping the directory does not work, and it must be the file that you drag and drop.

I don't see the point in having a separate empty mod for the file. The main file doesn't contain the ini file, which is why it is created in Overwrite, so the "Prioritize this configuration mod just after the source mod in MO such that the INI will override that of the source mod" line is simply incorrect.