GUIDE [WIP] DDSopt & Texture Overhauls

[z929669]

Discussion thread:
DDSopt Guide by STEP
Wiki Link

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GET DDSopt:
Github Pre-release versions
Official Nexus versions (select pre-release update 4)

[hellanios]

OK, I see. How long will the guide still be in WIP? Are you close in finalizing it?

[phazer11]

To sum it up short and sweetly... The guide will likely be a WIP for quite a time to come if ever. The reason is constantly evolving new methods for handling old problems. Mods are added to the black list now and then and when a solution is found so it can be added again it is then added back, etc.

[Kelmych]

Whether they mention it explicitly or not, all of the STEP guides are WIP. The DDSopt guide incorporates changes that result from testing and use of the approaches to optimizing, and it also tracks updates in mods in the STEP guide and the pack guides currently under development. Recent approach changes have included using different optimization parameters for normal maps from textures as well as for for uncompressed and compressed textures, and separating exterior textures from other textures to support reducing exterior texture sizes. The mod table in the guide was recently updated to provide recommendations for optimizing mods in STEP 2.2.7 . Meanwhile, other parts of the guide haven't changed very much.

[Luisangre]

Hello fellow STEPPERS.

I believe there is a bug with RaceMenu mod and DDSopt.

If the file default.dds is processed, your character will have whitish/ purplish skin on character creation.

The mod only has 5 texture files so finding the file was easy.

This is what DDSopt log says;

 

# default.dds #################################################################

C:\Program Files (x86)\ModOrganizer\mods\RaceMenu\textures\actors\character\overlays\default.dds

processing:

Format           : DXT5 to A8R8G8B8

Dimensions       : 128x128 to 1x1 - 8 to 1 levels

 

notes:

Planar image detected, collapsing to size 1x1.

Texture was compressed.

delta:            21868 bytes less

[EssArrBee]

You shouldn't be optimizing anything in the Fixes or Interface section.

[z929669]

This sort of problem is a known issue, but it is more to do with the way Skyrim treats texutres that with DDSopt. DDSopt is simply maximizing efficiency by reducing the monochromatic compressed texture to 1x1 uncompressed format. Unfortunately, the game engine does not necessarily know what to do with that. I am not sure what the technical reasons are, but we can sure add this to the INI or the wiki.

 

Kelmych has experience with this mod and DDSopt, so I'll defer to him.

[Luisangre]

The DDSopt/ mod chart highly recommends it;

https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:DDSopt_%26_Texture_Overhauls#tab=STEP_Mod_Texture_Properties

 

These mods are also listed as highly recommended and are also under fixes/ interface;

Consistent older people

Lockpicking interface

Skill interface retexture

 

The introduction also mentions STEP 2.2.7 so I assume this is up to date or am I completely missing something here?

[Luisangre]

Also,

These are the constraints under "Using DDsopt" tab;

https://wiki.step-project.com/images/f/f6/DDSopt_Fig7.jpg

 

These are the ones for optimizing vanilla textures and STEP textures in HQ;

https://wiki.step-project.com/images/9/94/DDSopt_Constraint_Menu_Fig1.jpg

 

Why is "DXTx 1:6 lossy" chosen for the first constraints but "R5G6B5 1:2 lossy" chosen for vanilla/ STEP mods?

Also these seem to be different versions of DDSopt as one has the support tab and the other doesn't.

[Kelmych]

You shouldn't be optimizing anything in the Fixes or Interface section.

That's certainly true for mods with textures used on interface screens; there isn't any point in optimizing these textures. Some mods in Fixes and Interface section have textures that are used for NPCs or creatures, and when this happens we need to look at the textures to see whether they should be optimized.

[Kelmych]

Also,

These are the constraints under "Using DDsopt" tab;

https://wiki.step-project.com/images/f/f6/DDSopt_Fig7.jpg

 

These are the ones for optimizing vanilla textures and STEP textures in HQ;

https://wiki.step-project.com/images/9/94/DDSopt_Constraint_Menu_Fig1.jpg

 

Why is "DXTx 1:6 lossy" chosen for the first constraints but "R5G6B5 1:2 lossy" chosen for vanilla/ STEP mods?

Also these seem to be different versions of DDSopt as one has the support tab and the other doesn't.

The constraints in "Using DDSopt" tab are general purpose recommendations. Some of the Constraints tab parameters rarely change, but the tint/tone map format parameters used depend on whether the tint/tone textures are compressed or uncompressed. The tint/tone maps in the vanilla textures are generally uncompressed so the recommended Constraints tab settings for vanilla tint/tone map textures were set for uncompressed textures. The other format option for these vanilla tint/tone map textures would be R8G8B8; we added a little bit of size reduction with the recommended settings.

 

Some notes are needed in the recommendations for STEP mods since the recommended tint/tone map format depends on the mod; there really isn't a single recommended setting for this format parameter that works with all mods. RaceMenu uses DXT5 compression for tint/tone maps. We haven't done any testing of these RaceMenu textures to see whether it is better to keep DXT compression or change to an uncompressed format if they are reduced in size.

 

The DDSopt guide STEP mod list has the most recent optimization information we have, but we rely on user feedback and testing to identify potential issues. We have done some testing using the guide's recommendations, but not always extensive testing.

[Kelmych]

Hello fellow STEPPERS.

I believe there is a bug with RaceMenu mod and DDSopt.

If the file default.dds is processed, your character will have whitish/ purplish skin on character creation.

The mod only has 5 texture files so finding the file was easy.

This is what DDSopt log says;

 

# default.dds #################################################################

C:\Program Files (x86)\ModOrganizer\mods\RaceMenu\textures\actors\character\overlays\default.dds

processing:

Format           : DXT5 to A8R8G8B8

Dimensions       : 128x128 to 1x1 - 8 to 1 levels

 

notes:

Planar image detected, collapsing to size 1x1.

Texture was compressed.

delta:            21868 bytes less

Ethatron discusses the general issue of collapsing textures in his answer for Q2 in the Technical FAQ tab of the DDSopt guide. He said that this collapsing is a reasonable optimization approach but some hardware has a problem with these 1x1 textures. For example, DDSopt collapses many of the vanilla textures, especially in textures\terrain. There have not been many reports of problems with this; I personally don't have any problems with the collapsed textures from vanilla textures or RaceMenu. We'll add a note in the STEP mod table that there can be problems if this texture is optimized. Perhaps it would be better to either not optimize the textures in RaceMenu or to be more selective about it. One of the tint/tone maps is 2Kx2K so some users may prefer to resize and optimize at least that texture.

[phazer11]

You know I seem to remember posting about having trouble optimizing Skyrim Immersive Creatures, I think it always failed in the tintmask's folder. I'll have to revisit that I gave it up as a bad job at the time.

[Kelmych]

The DDSopt guide has some small updates based on issues with how tint/tone maps were treated. An updated batch file for pre-optimization (sorting) of vanilla textures was added which now moves uncompressed tint/tone maps to the temporary folder that also has uncompressed normal maps. This allows the constraints tab recommended values to be consistent across vanilla and STEP mod textures since any uncompressed tint/tone maps are now optimized along with other uncompressed textures. The constraints tab value for tint/tone maps depends on whether the associated textures are compressed or uncompressed, so it was previously not possible to recommend a single tint/tone map constraints tab format. Now that ordinary textures are assumed to not include any uncompressed tint/tone maps, a single recommendation can be made.

 

Note that even though there is a new batch file it is not necessary to rerun the vanilla texture optimization; the resulting optimized textures in "Vanilla Optimized" will be the same. The optimization results for vanilla textures are the same for the new and previous batch files. The change was made to support consistent parameter recommendations for STEP mods.

 

Comments about the potential problems with collapsed textures with some mods (e.g., RaceMenu) on some hardware were added to the STEP mod tables.

[Nearox]

You know I seem to remember posting about having trouble optimizing Skyrim Immersive Creatures' date=' I think it always failed in the tintmask's folder. I'll have to revisit that I gave it up as a bad job at the time.[/quote']

I also experience dissues with it, so I ddsopted all the other SIC textures and kept the original tint/tone maps. Still a huge reduction. Been playing for more than a month with it and haven't experienced any issues. DDSopted all to 1k textures and .5k normals I think (or maybe I did 50% reduction on all, can't remember exactly...)

[Luisangre]

@Kelmych

Thank you for the updates and explanations!