Extended UI (by MrJack)

[z929669]

Discussion topic:
Extended UI by MrJack
Wiki Link

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This is a LE mod supported by Dear Diary, which itself is in testing now as a companion mod to Completionist - Skyrim Completion Tracker (NG), which is also in testing.

The one downside is that this mod comes with a BSA that must be extracted, since it's not compatible with SSE AE. The plugin is also incompatible, but that is remedied with use of Extended UI - Settings Loader

Nevertheless, this mod offers some significant UI enhancements, including allowing more information to be exposed on the Skills/Perks UI (see mod description for details).

Installation

Install the Main File.

Click [Yes] to extract the BSA when prompted. NOTE: The prompt appears because this is an LE mod with an LE BSA, which MO knows isn't supported in SSE.

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This assortment of interface mods will require a lot of testing against our current interface mods. I expect that if we adopt one or more of these new solutions, some of our current guide solutions will become obsolete/redundant.

[Mousetick]

I use it with DDDM. I converted it to Form 44 in CK and ESLified it in xEdit.

It improves the skills & perks UI, fits more information at once on the screen, supports different aspect ratios. Has an MCM to configure it.

For use with DDDM: install this first, then DDDM overwrites it. That's all.

[Mousetick]

Regarding the issue with this mod's BSA you mentioned there, have you tried installing it in MO2 yet?

I see I unpacked the BSA for my installation, but it was long ago and I don't remember how/why I did it. I guess it's probably because of the following.

When installing this mod, MO2 prompts to unpack its BSA (which it normally doesn't do):

The prompt is provided by a MO2 'BSA Extractor' plugin which is configured by default to trigger when the installed mod is from an 'alternate source':

I don't know what characterizes an 'alternate source', it may simply be: mod's game is different from MO2 instance's game. In this mod's case, LE vs. SE.

Anyway, extracting the BSA at that point resolves the issue without overly complicating the installation. Unfortunately, the default answer is 'No', which is not safe. Asking the user to manually select 'Yes' increases the risk of misstep and CTD down the line, which is not good for the STEP Guide.

[z929669]

9 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Regarding the issue with this mod's BSA you mentioned there, have you tried installing it in MO2 yet?

Yes, I installed Extended UI using MO. I believe MO threw a warning about the plugin being LE, which led me to investigate and ultimately to find the Extended UI - Settings Loader mod, which resolved that bit.

9 hours ago, Mousetick said:

 see I unpacked the BSA for my installation, but it was long ago and I don't remember how/why I did it. I guess it's probably because of the following.

When installing this mod, MO2 prompts to unpack its BSA (which it normally doesn't do):

The prompt is provided by a MO2 'BSA Extractor' plugin which is configured by default to trigger when the installed mod is from an 'alternate source':

I don't know what characterizes an 'alternate source', it may simply be: mod's game is different from MO2 instance's game. In this mod's case, LE vs. SE.

Anyway, extracting the BSA at that point resolves the issue without overly complicating the installation. Unfortunately, the default answer is 'No', which is not safe. Asking the user to manually select 'Yes' increases the risk of misstep and CTD down the line, which is not good for the STEP Guide.

I found the only_alternate_source boolean setting to be quite misleading and unintuitive. I long ago got tired of being prompted to "extract BSA" for every mod that had one, so I checked the "Remember selection" box and clicked [No] waaaay back then to make it stop. I assume this changed my own only_alternate_source boolean to 'false'. If that's correct, I would have named this boolean install_prompt or likewise, because that name is totally misleading and makes me think it's referring to mods installed outside of the API-mediated automation. <-- my assumptions here were incorrect. The boolean hover description: "Only trigger BSA extraction for alternate game sources (default: true)" ... regardless, this plugin's behavior doesn't change for me if I change the boolean or disable the plugin entirely (and restart MO): I still have the Archives tab in right pane, I can still extract BSAs from there, and I still never get the "Extract BSA" prompt dialog under any circumstances related to this plugin or it's settings. This is an LE mod (per the downloaded file metadata). I get the same behavior with LE and SE files under my SSE MO instance. Something's not working correctly.

The MO2 team should have left this at 'false' by default, as some users will "Enable archive parsing", which I presume opens up visibility to this default dialog (I haven't verified) After verifying, I found that this 'Workaround' has nothing to do with the BSA Extractor plugin.:

Due to the headaches caused by people extracting BSAs and unwittingly subverting expected asset-load behavior of the game, we avoid the subject entirely these days, given that "Enable archive parsing" is disabled in MO2 by default (IIRC) and the potential confusion is circumvented.

Furthermore, the default is 'No' as you indicate, which is a good thing in all cases but this particular edge case where the BSA isn't SSE compatible evidently.

Unfortunately, the Extended UI mod's Nexus attributes require permission to alter it's assets, so the Extended UI - Settings Loader MA doesn't fix this problem (I presume for that reason). I've reached out to the MA, but I don't expect Mr Jack is active on Nexus for the past several years. To use this one will require a viable workaround, and none of the present options seem convenient.

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UPDATE: Well, testing that boolean set to 'true' doesn't bring back the Extract BSA prompt for me even after restarting MO, so I have no clue what it does or how to revert that dialog so that it appears for me again.

UPDATE2: I was also wrong about "Enable archive parsing" having anything at all to do with BSA Extractor plugin. The former only allows MO to scan BSAs for asset conflict compares ... I guess I should have known.

UPDATE3: Disabling the BSA Extractor plugin has no impact for me. I still see the Archives tab in the right pane and still have option to extract BSAs. Now I'm guessing that it's broken or behaving unexpectedly do to my using an instanced MO installation.

Maybe @GSDFan knows what's up with MO2 in my case ... see updates and yellow text.

[Mousetick]

5 hours ago, z929669 said:

UPDATE: Well, testing that boolean set to 'true' doesn't bring back the Extract BSA prompt for me even after restarting MO, so I have no clue what it does or how to revert that dialog so that it appears for me again.

My guess is that you're not getting the prompt regardless of the 'only_alternate_source' setting because you had previously answered 'No' and checked 'Remember selection'. The 'Remember selection' choice is probably stored somewhere in the Windows registry... or you could try this button:

5 hours ago, z929669 said:

UPDATE2: I was also wrong about "Enable archive parsing" having anything at all to do with BSA Extractor plugin. The former only allows MO to scan BSAs for asset conflict compares ... I guess I should have known.

UPDATE3: Disabling the BSA Extractor plugin has no impact for me. I still see the Archives tab in the right pane and still have option to extract BSAs. Now I'm guessing that it's broken or behaving unexpectedly do to my using an instanced MO installation.

The name of the plugin 'BSA Extractor' is misleading/confusing... Its only feature, as described on the plugin config panel (see my previous screenshot), is to 'offer a dialog during installation of a mod to unpack all its BSAs'. It only provides the UI and the glue, the actual BSA parsing and extraction is a core feature of MO2, built into MO2 itself, not in any plugin.

Which is why the Archives tab and 'Extract...' option, or the 'Archive parsing' experimental option, exist even without this plugin.

--

Anyway, with all this mess, I honestly don't think this mod is worth it. Sure it's nice and I personally use/like it, but I don't think it falls into the 'essential' category. It's a nice to have QoL improvement, that's all. And it's not a requirement for DDDM, merely an option.

Lastly, it's so old it doesn't support newer ultrawide display aspect ratios, with no hope of it being ever updated. Though it's possible that DDDM has taken care of that since it overwrites its Stats menu (interface/statsmenu.swf) and does support 21:9 or 32:9. This would have to verified with appropriate monitor.

[Greg]

8 hours ago, z929669 said:

UPDATE: Well, testing that boolean set to 'true' doesn't bring back the Extract BSA prompt for me even after restarting MO, so I have no clue what it does or how to revert that dialog so that it appears for me again.

I suggest looking in ModOrganizer.ini to see if the setting is stored here. I know BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=true is stored in the [Plugins] section, but I don't know whether the "Never ever offer to do this again" is stored in [Plugins] but it may add BSA%20Extractor to the [pluginBlacklist] section to effective disable that plugin.

8 hours ago, z929669 said:

UPDATE2: I was also wrong about "Enable archive parsing" having anything at all to do with BSA Extractor plugin. The former only allows MO to scan BSAs for asset conflict compares ... I guess I should have known.

Yeah, "Enable archive parsing" is only used to scan BSAs for asset conflicts although it does not scan the game BSAs for performance reasons.

[z929669]

2 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Anyway, with all this mess, I honestly don't think this mod is worth it. Sure it's nice and I personally use/like it, but I don't think it falls into the 'essential' category. It's a nice to have QoL improvement, that's all. And it's not a requirement for DDDM, merely an option.

Lastly, it's so old it doesn't support newer ultrawide display aspect ratios, with no hope of it being ever updated. Though it's possible that DDDM has taken care of that since it overwrites its Stats menu (interface/statsmenu.swf) and does support 21:9 or 32:9. This would have to verified with appropriate monitor.

I tend to agree. Not worth supporting all of the ways it could go wrong for some people. We'd need to add special instructions for configuring MO and again broach the BSA extraction subject, which is an additional headache. Too bad, because the consolidated skills UI is super nice. I'll be running it in my personal game for sure. It was surprisingly easy to set up DDDM with all optionals.I went with the font update strictly for the monospaced font in the console. Works great with Font Overhaul too (just let that one mod override).

Still working out the overall config, but alas, Extended UI is a bit of a support headache with no simple solution it seems.

29 minutes ago, Greg said:

I suggest looking in ModOrganizer.ini to see if the setting is stored here. I know BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=true is stored in the [Plugins] section, but I don't know whether the "Never ever offer to do this again" is stored in [Plugins] but it may add BSA%20Extractor to the [pluginBlacklist] section to effective disable that plugin.

Tried that as well but I didn't look too deeply. I don't want to turn off these features but rather get back to what a new user might see.

[GSDFan]

13 hours ago, z929669 said:

I found the only_alternate_source boolean setting to be quite misleading and unintuitive. I long ago got tired of being prompted to "extract BSA" for every mod that had one, so I checked the "Remember selection" box and clicked [No] waaaay back then to make it stop. I assume this changed my own only_alternate_source boolean to 'false'. If that's correct, I would have named this boolean install_prompt or likewise, because that name is totally misleading and makes me think it's referring to mods installed outside of the API-mediated automation

It has been a while, but I believe that if “only_alternate_source” is set to true then archives not related to the current game will be asked to be extracted. If set to false then it should ask on any mods archive when installed, which I just tested on my MO2 v2.4.4 install. This is only for when installing a mod and is the expected actions. this setting is under the [Plugins] section of ModOrganizer.ini and is BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=false.

13 hours ago, z929669 said:

I still have the Archives tab in right pane, I can still extract BSAs from there,

This is to be expected as it is a default action.

13 hours ago, z929669 said:

UPDATE: Well, testing that boolean set to 'true' doesn't bring back the Extract BSA prompt for me even after restarting MO, so I have no clue what it does or how to revert that dialog so that it appears for me again.

As for the resetting of the dialog choices pressing the “Reset dialog Choices” button should revert your choices.

When I have the “only_alternate_source” set to false it will first ask to unpack the archive on install. When I look at Modorganizer.ini I get the following entry:

[DialogChoices]

unpackBSA=65536

And when I tell it to remember to remove the archive, I get an additional entry:

[DialogChoices]

unpackBSA=16384

removeUnpackedBSA=16384

Pressing the reset button will remove both of these entries. Try looking in the ModOrganizer.ini for these settings, they probably will be at the very bottom.

 

[z929669]

I checked permissions on this mod, and it looks like we can upload "bug fixes" with credit to the MA. This should allow us to extract this mod's BSA and incorporate it into the Step patch as long as we credit the MA on our Nexus page and require the original mod.

This essentially renders obsolete all of the files from this mod besides the ReadMe (because the plugin will be overridden by Extended UI - Settings Loader), but we'd be in compliance I think.

The installation procedure would simply instruct to select 'No' on BSA extraction to avoid the need to provide guidance on BSA extraction.

 

On 6/1/2023 at 12:01 AM, GSDFan said:

It has been a while, but I believe that if “only_alternate_source” is set to true then archives not related to the current game will be asked to be extracted. If set to false then it should ask on any mods archive when installed, which I just tested on my MO2 v2.4.4 install. This is only for when installing a mod and is the expected actions. this setting is under the [Plugins] section of ModOrganizer.ini and is BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=false.

This is to be expected as it is a default action.

As for the resetting of the dialog choices pressing the “Reset dialog Choices” button should revert your choices.

When I have the “only_alternate_source” set to false it will first ask to unpack the archive on install. When I look at Modorganizer.ini I get the following entry:

[DialogChoices]

unpackBSA=65536

And when I tell it to remember to remove the archive, I get an additional entry:

[DialogChoices]

unpackBSA=16384

removeUnpackedBSA=16384

Pressing the reset button will remove both of these entries. Try looking in the ModOrganizer.ini for these settings, they probably will be at the very bottom.

When you let MO extract a mod's BSA, does MO install as loose files into the mod itself with proper paths or into a file-system folder chosen by the user?

[Greg]

If the BSA Extractor plugin is enabled as GSDFan suggests, the user is prompted to extract files from the BSA file(s) when installing a mod that contains BSA file(s). If the user selects Yes, the files are extracted directly into the mod folder and the user is asked whether to delete the redundant BSA.

The other option is to select the Archives tab in the right pane, right click on a BSA and select Extract. This opens a Select Folder dialog in which the user has to explicitly select which folder to extract the files. This can be error prone if the user selects the wrong folder.

[z929669]

1 hour ago, Greg said:

If the BSA Extractor plugin is enabled as GSDFan suggests, the user is prompted to extract files from the BSA file(s) when installing a mod that contains BSA file(s). If the user selects Yes, the files are extracted directly into the mod folder and the user is asked whether to delete the redundant BSA.

Yeah, @GSDFan's note helped me to figure it out. What I don't know for absolute certain is the state of the BSA Extractor plugin by default, and I'm not willing to mess with reinstalling MO and connecting to SSE to find out ... just don't need the headache of sorting out new issues that might cause right now.

So after some testing, these are my findings:

Setting only_alternate_source=true for the BSA Extractor plugin in the GUI causes ONLY this change in modorganizer.ini ...

[Plugins]
BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=true  ;I'm pretty sure this is the default

 

Setting only_alternate_source=false for the BSA Extractor plugin in the GUI causes ONLY this change in modorganizer.ini ....

[Plugins]
BSA%20Extractor\only_alternate_source=false

 

If I untick 'Enabled' on the BSA Extractor plugin, ONLY the following is changed (it's set to 'true' if I tick it again)...

[PluginPersistance]
BSA%20Extractor\enabled=false  ;I'm pretty sure this is the default

 

If I have the BSA Extractor plugin enabled and only_alternate_source set to 'true', I get the prompt when ...

[DialogChoices]
unpackBSA=16384

 

If I tick "Remember Selection" in that dialog, I get (as GSD mentioned previously) ...

[DialogChoices]
unpackBSA=16384
removeUnpackedBSA=16384   ;This is NOT default. This line doesn't appear in the INI by default

(I removed removeUnpackedBSA=16384 line after testing this, since we know that is default)

 

In my instance, I previously had ...

[DialogChoices]
unpackBSA=65536

(I was NOT getting the dialog at all with this setting, thus my issues described previously. I've no idea how I caused this setting in the first place, so it's controlled by something I can't find ... it's NOT enabling/disabling archive parsing)

 

Manually editing modorganizer.ini, reverting back to the following fixes everything, and I have the dialog back again, which I think is the default state. This prompts only for 'foreign' game installers as GDS suggested, because I tested with a reinstall of CACO and wasn't prompted. The BSA is extracted into the mod (thankfully) ...

 

If I'm correct, then installing this mod will be easy-peasy without need to maintain the loose files in our patch if we pick this mod up.

Install the Main File.

Click [Yes] to extract the BSA when prompted. NOTE: The prompt appears because this is an LE mod with an LE BSA, which MO knows isn't supported in SSE.

 

[Mousetick]

20 hours ago, z929669 said:

If I'm correct, then installing this mod will be easy-peasy without need to maintain the loose files in our patch if we pick this mod up.

Install the Main File.

Click [Yes] to extract the BSA when prompted. NOTE: The prompt appears because this is an LE mod with an LE BSA, which MO knows isn't supported in SSE.

Yes indeed, this would work. It is primordial that the user create a new MO2 instance from scratch and not reuse an existing one in order to guarantee a 'pristine' ModOrganizer.ini with all the correct default BSA Extractor settings and dialog choices. Otherwise, all bets are off.

20 hours ago, z929669 said:

In my instance, I previously had ...

[DialogChoices]
unpackBSA=65536

(I was NOT getting the dialog at all with this setting, thus my issues described previously. I've no idea how I caused this setting in the first place, so it's controlled by something I can't find ... it's NOT enabling/disabling archive parsing)

This is the result of you previously choosing 'No' and ticking 'Remember selection' in the BSA Extractor dialog:

(I just tested it and looked at the changes in ModOrganizer.ini, that's how I found out)

If you go to Tools > Settings > General > Reset Dialog Choices, that INI section gets removed:

Edit: It may be wise to revise https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/SkyrimSE:2.2.0#Mod_Organizer_-_SkyrimSE_Initialization and make it super-clear that the user MUST create a new instance from scratch. The first paragraph in particular is a little ambiguous and may be prone to confusion or error (emphasis added):

Quote

FIRST, follow the System Setup Guide. The below instructions describe how to initialize a SkyrimSE instance in Mod Organizer (MO). If MO was installed as a Portable application, the instructions below will need to be interpreted accordingly. If a SkyrimSE instance was created in Step 1 or otherwise, simply select the instance. Otherwise:

[Kattmandu]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:06 PM, Mousetick said:

Lastly, it's so old it doesn't support newer ultrawide display aspect ratios, with no hope of it being ever updated. Though it's possible that DDDM has taken care of that since it overwrites its Stats menu (interface/statsmenu.swf) and does support 21:9 or 32:9. This would have to verified with appropriate monitor.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but this mod has a widescreen fix for Extended UI under the optional files (for those of us who don't like or want to use Dear Diary).

 

[z929669]

5 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Yes indeed, this would work. It is primordial that the user create a new MO2 instance from scratch and not reuse an existing one in order to guarantee a 'pristine' ModOrganizer.ini with all the correct default BSA Extractor settings and dialog choices. Otherwise, all bets are off.

This is the result of you previously choosing 'No' and ticking 'Remember selection' in the BSA Extractor dialog:

(I just tested it and looked at the changes in ModOrganizer.ini, that's how I found out)

If you go to Tools > Settings > General > Reset Dialog Choices, that INI section gets removed:

Edit: I may be wise to revise https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/SkyrimSE:2.2.0#Mod_Organizer_-_SkyrimSE_Initialization and make it super-clear that the user MUST create a new instance from scratch. The first paragraph in particular is a little ambiguous and may be prone to confusion or error (emphasis added):

Indeed. That makes sense. I tested "Remember selection", but only when clicking 'Yes'. I failed to test the 'No' scenarios. Good points to consider.

3 hours ago, Kattmandu said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but this mod has a widescreen fix for Extended UI under the optional files (for those of us who don't like or want to use Dear Diary).

 

Also a good catch. Still need to work out variations and practicality in addition to determination if DDDM is something we want to pick up for the guide.

[Kattmandu]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

Also a good catch. Still need to work out variations and practicality in addition to determination if DDDM is something we want to pick up for the guide.

I'm giving the warm version of DDDM a try.  I'm attempting to force myself to like it.   But there's aspects of the vanilla SkyUI that I like better.  I did just install CNO and the patch to make it work with DDDM and really like what CNO does.  There's also a RaceMenu patcher for DDDM which requires the installation of DIP in order to create the patch.

Oh, and the mod author of CNO has apparently made it compatible with CoMAP 4.0 so the DLL workaround is no longer needed.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Kattmandu