DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 182

[Saint_Chewy]

42 minutes ago, sheson said:

I see. Let me know what happens with these two toml files then.

I made the second file artificially larger to differentiate between them in case something happens to be different.

EngineFixes.toml 6.63 kB · 0 downloads EngineFixes.toml 9.65 kB · 0 downloads

I tried the first file 6.63 kB .toml with DynDOLOD.esm disabled to make sure I didn't crash and I did not. I then ran again with DynDOLOD.esm enabled and did not crash. It also seemed like the stutter was fixed because I did not stutter where I normally did which is around Fort Amol / Darkwater Crossing area. I made it almost all the way to Riften and then the exact same stutter kicked in. Gradual at first but if you keep walking it just grows in intensity. I continued my test to Windhelm to see if the stutter would stop and it did not. So this file just seemed to delay the stutter for me.

Next I tried the 9.65 kB .toml the same way. I did not crash with DynDOLOD.esm disabled, but when I enable it I crash as soon as the loading screen starts. I was unable to coc anywhere without it crashing. .Net Framework still did not generate a crash log for those crashes either.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Saint_Chewy

[sheson]

9 minutes ago, Saint_Chewy said:

I tried the first file 6.63 kB .toml with DynDOLOD.esm disabled to make sure I didn't crash and I did not. I then ran again with DynDOLOD.esm enabled and did not crash. It also seemed like the stutter was fixed because I did not stutter where I normally did which is around Fort Amol / Darkwater Crossing area. I made it almost all the way to Riften and then the exact same stutter kicked in. Gradual at first but if you keep walking it just grows in intensity. I continued my test to Windhelm to see if the stutter would stop and it did not. So this file just seemed to delay the stutter for me.

Next I tried the 9.65 kB .toml the same way. I did not crash with DynDOLOD.esm disabled, but when I enable it I crash as soon as the loading screen starts. I was unable to coc anywhere without it crashing. .Net Framework still did not generate a crash log for those crashes either.

 

Anything different with this vesion?

EngineFixes.toml

[Saint_Chewy]

1 hour ago, sheson said:

Anything different with this vesion?

EngineFixes.toml 6.63 kB · 1 download

Unfortunately I get the same results as the last test. I did not stutter where I normally did and I made it almost all the way to Riften and then the exact same stutter kicked in. I apologize for taking up so much of your time, but I know we are close to figuring this out.

Also apologies for asking a dumb question, but for one of my tests I had disabled DynDOLOD from the MCM and I still had stutter, but apparently the test script that you provided that did not make me stutter also disabled the dynamic LOD. Why do you think it is that the test script stopped my stuttering?

Edited November 3, 2022 by Saint_Chewy

[sheson]

50 minutes ago, Saint_Chewy said:

Unfortunately I get the same results as the last test. I did not stutter where I normally did and I made it almost all the way to Riften and then the exact same stutter kicked in. I apologize for taking up so much of your time, but I know we are close to figuring this out.

Check what happens with this.

It would be great if you could test the minimum setup with the latest game runtime 1.6.640, SKSE 2.2.3 and SSE Engine Fixes 6.1.1 and its default settings.

EngineFixes.toml

[Saint_Chewy]

5 hours ago, sheson said:

Check what happens with this.

It would be great if you could test the minimum setup with the latest game runtime 1.6.640, SKSE 2.2.3 and SSE Engine Fixes 6.1.1 and its default settings.

EngineFixes.toml 6.63 kB · 0 downloads

Okay so first I reinstalled Skyrim and used the 1.6.640 .exe, installed SKSE 2.2.3 and SSE Engine Fixes 6.1.1. I left the .toml default for my first test run. I received the stutter that I was receiving before around the Fort Amol / Darkwater Crossing area. I then used the .toml you provided and received delayed stutter that I now get at Riften. This time to check as well I ran around the entire map to see if the stutter would stop and it did not. It still gets progressively worse the more I play which is the same behavior as before when we started troubleshooting.

After that didn't work I set my old Skyrim back up and tried the .toml you provided and its the same results as above; delayed stutter starting at Riften now.

I also wanted to just recap with you as this might help as we have done quite a bit of troubleshooting over the last week.

This is my load order I am using for the testing:

+DynDOLOD_Output
+DynDOLOD Resources SE
+(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.5.39 - 1.5.97
+Address Library for SKSE Plugins
+PapyrusUtil SE - Modders Scripting Utility Functions

1. I know that the default settings on EngineFixes.toml work if I do not have DynDOLOD Resources SE or DynDOLOD.esm enabled together - individually enabled they are fine with SSE Engine Fixes.

2. The only thing currently active in DynDOLOD Resources SE is the SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex script and everything else is hidden in MO2. If I hide that script and leave SSE Engine Fixes and DynDOLOD.esm enabled I do not get that stutter as DynDOLOD.esm is not calling on the script (I am not a mod creator so I have no idea if that is accurate or not so forgive me if I am wrong)

3. Everything in DynDOLOD_Output is hidden except DynDOLOD.esm If I disable DynDOLOD.esm and leave SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex in DynDOLOD Resources SE along with SSE Engine Fixes I do not get that stutter as the script is laying dormant in the folder since DynDOLOD.esm cannot call on it (again please forgive me if I am wrong here).

4. Now I from the troubleshooting so far it would look like SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex would be the culprit? Maybe when DynDOLOD.esm is calling it, something goes haywire with SSE Engine Fixes? I know you said that the script works fine and I am sure it does because you are a wizard, I am just spitballing here and maybe something with stick. I am unable to test with only DynDOLOD enabled without SSE Engine Fixes as my game will crash during the loading screen when I try to use coc.

Thank you again for all your help so far Sheson

Edited November 4, 2022 by Saint_Chewy

[sheson]

11 hours ago, Saint_Chewy said:

Okay so first I reinstalled Skyrim and used the 1.6.640 .exe, installed SKSE 2.2.3 and SSE Engine Fixes 6.1.1. I left the .toml default for my first test run. I received the stutter that I was receiving before around the Fort Amol / Darkwater Crossing area. I then used the .toml you provided and received delayed stutter that I now get at Riften. This time to check as well I ran around the entire map to see if the stutter would stop and it did not. It still gets progressively worse the more I play which is the same behavior as before when we started troubleshooting.

After that didn't work I set my old Skyrim back up and tried the .toml you provided and its the same results as above; delayed stutter starting at Riften now.

I also wanted to just recap with you as this might help as we have done quite a bit of troubleshooting over the last week.

This is my load order I am using for the testing:

+DynDOLOD_Output
+DynDOLOD Resources SE
+(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.5.39 - 1.5.97
+Address Library for SKSE Plugins
+PapyrusUtil SE - Modders Scripting Utility Functions

1. I know that the default settings on EngineFixes.toml work if I do not have DynDOLOD Resources SE or DynDOLOD.esm enabled together - individually enabled they are fine with SSE Engine Fixes.

2. The only thing currently active in DynDOLOD Resources SE is the SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex script and everything else is hidden in MO2. If I hide that script and leave SSE Engine Fixes and DynDOLOD.esm enabled I do not get that stutter as DynDOLOD.esm is not calling on the script (I am not a mod creator so I have no idea if that is accurate or not so forgive me if I am wrong)

3. Everything in DynDOLOD_Output is hidden except DynDOLOD.esm If I disable DynDOLOD.esm and leave SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex in DynDOLOD Resources SE along with SSE Engine Fixes I do not get that stutter as the script is laying dormant in the folder since DynDOLOD.esm cannot call on it (again please forgive me if I am wrong here).

4. Now I from the troubleshooting so far it would look like SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex would be the culprit? Maybe when DynDOLOD.esm is calling it, something goes haywire with SSE Engine Fixes? I know you said that the script works fine and I am sure it does because you are a wizard, I am just spitballing here and maybe something with stick. I am unable to test with only DynDOLOD enabled without SSE Engine Fixes as my game will crash during the loading screen when I try to use coc.

Thank you again for all your help so far Sheson

Plugins contain data. The game code is calling/executing the scripts.

The script exists since DynDOLOD 2.36 was released 5 years ago. The code inside the OnUnLoad event didn't change since then and the tests revealed that the code does not matter. Especially the tests with the "empty" test script show that it is the victim of an issue and not the cause.

You reported that the issue does not happen without SSE Engine fixes. The test revealed that changing settings for SSE Engine Fixes influences the issue. That means that SSE Engine Fixes is involved.

The actual culprit is most likely something that was changed/updated/added recently, probably outside of SSE Engine Fixes. We know things work fine since years and still do since so there is only one report about an issue involving SSE Engine Fixes.

Something getting worse and worse over time sounds like a memory leak or a buffer that fills with data that is not cleaned or freed.

Is there any change when going into a building or child worldspace (walled city).
Any change after using executing pcb from the game console?
Any change when setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 in SkyrimPrefs.INI?

See what happens if you use SSE Engine Fixes 5.6.0 https://www.nexusmods.com/Core/Libs/Common/Widgets/DownloadPopUp?id=181373&game_id=1704

The actual fix or workaround depends on what we find.

[Saint_Chewy]

4 hours ago, sheson said:

Plugins contain data. The game code is calling/executing the scripts.

The script exists since DynDOLOD 2.36 was released 5 years ago. The code inside the OnUnLoad event didn't change since then and the tests revealed that the code does not matter. Especially the tests with the "empty" test script show that it is the victim of an issue and not the cause.

You reported that the issue does not happen without SSE Engine fixes. The test revealed that changing settings for SSE Engine Fixes influences the issue. That means that SSE Engine Fixes is involved.

The actual culprit is most likely something that was changed/updated/added recently, probably outside of SSE Engine Fixes. We know things work fine since years and still do since so there is only one report about an issue involving SSE Engine Fixes.

Something getting worse and worse over time sounds like a memory leak or a buffer that fills with data that is not cleaned or freed.

Is there any change when going into a building or child worldspace (walled city).
Any change after using executing pcb from the game console?
Any change when setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 in SkyrimPrefs.INI?

See what happens if you use SSE Engine Fixes 5.6.0 https://www.nexusmods.com/Core/Libs/Common/Widgets/DownloadPopUp?id=181373&game_id=1704

The actual fix or workaround depends on what we find.

I tried SSE Engine Fixes 5.6.0 first and unfortunately no change; still stuttering at the same location.

For my next test when the stuttering got really bad outside Riften I went inside and the FPS/frametime was perfect. I ran around for several minutes and there was no stutter. Left Rfiten and the stutter picked right up again. I tried running pcb at that point and there was no change.

Lastly I tried uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 and there was no change with that either

[sheson]

4 minutes ago, Saint_Chewy said:

I tried SSE Engine Fixes 5.6.0 first and unfortunately no change; still stuttering at the same location.

For my next test when the stuttering got really bad outside Riften I went inside and the FPS/frametime was perfect. I ran around for several minutes and there was no stutter. Left Rfiten and the stutter picked right up again. I tried running pcb at that point and there was no change.

Lastly I tried uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 and there was no change with that either

Generate a LOD mod with DynDOLOD 2.98 to verify we are not overlooking anything. Just do the Tamriel worldspace.

[Saint_Chewy]

1 hour ago, sheson said:

Generate a LOD mod with DynDOLOD 2.98 to verify we are not overlooking anything. Just do the Tamriel worldspace.

Well this was honestly unexpected, but I get the exact same issue with DynDOLOD 2.98. Its also the exact same scenario as well. If I hide either SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex, DynDOLOD.esm or SSE Engine Fixes the stutter will go away.

I also just reinstalled Windows 10 last month during my month of trying to troubleshoot this. My wife's computer is Windows 11 and also recently installed and I am able to replicate the issue on her computer so I don't think there is anything on my computer that would be causing the stutter when the game is running?

Also you had mentioned using a workaround and currently the best thing that has worked so far with our troubleshooting is that test SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex script. You had also said that with this test script the dynamic LOD is not working properly. From my few tests running with it I have noticed that the windmills appear to work along with the water wheels. The only thing that I have noticed is that sometimes the dynamic LOD for waterfalls doesnt work correctly and will flicker when I am nearby. I know I shouldn't use this script since its not working fully, but if this is the tradeoff between flickering waterfalls or unplayable stutter I would gladly take the flickering waterfalls any day. I was able to run around the map twice even with the test script so it seems stable enough for me if you think its okay that I use this as a workaround.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Saint_Chewy

[sheson]

1 hour ago, Saint_Chewy said:

Well this was honestly unexpected, but I get the exact same issue with DynDOLOD 2.98. Its also the exact same scenario as well. If I hide either SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex, DynDOLOD.esm or SSE Engine Fixes the stutter will go away.

I also just reinstalled Windows 10 last month during my month of trying to troubleshoot this. My wife's computer is Windows 11 and also recently installed and I am able to replicate the issue on her computer so I don't think there is anything on my computer that would be causing the stutter when the game is running?

Also you had mentioned using a workaround and currently the best thing that has worked so far with our troubleshooting is that test SHESON_DynDOLOD_Worshipper.pex script. You had also said that with this test script the dynamic LOD is not working properly. From my few tests running with it I have noticed that the windmills appear to work along with the water wheels. The only thing that I have noticed is that sometimes the dynamic LOD for waterfalls doesnt work correctly and will flicker when I am nearby. I know I shouldn't use this script since its not working fully, but if this is the tradeoff between flickering waterfalls or unplayable stutter I would gladly take the flickering waterfalls any day. I was able to run around the map twice even with the test script so it seems stable enough for me if you think its okay that I use this as a workaround.

That was totally expected, especially after testing with the old version of SSE Engine Fixes did not make a difference as well.

There is something else is addition to SSE Engine Fixes that needs to happen to have a vanilla script command going weird all of sudden, otherwise we would have had thousands of reports in the past years about this. Typically, the number one suspect in these case are Skyrim INI settings, but I have not seen anything that sticks out in the INIs you uploaded and no stutter happened after putting the INIs into the MO2 profile I made for this issue with the full DynDOLOD.esm you uploaded etc.

There is no workaround yet, we are still in the middle of troubleshooting. 

If you want to stop troubleshooting, then I suggest to not generate any dynamic LOD or to disable the large reference system by setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 and IgnoreLargeReferences=1 in the DynDOLOD_SSE.ini while keeping the scripts from DynDOLOD Resources SE.

Use the default EngineFixes.toml, so the issue happens as usual and set VerboseLogging = true. Do the test, upload c:\Users\[USERNAME]\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SKSE\EngineFixes.log (might as well upload every other log that gets updated with the same timestamp, like skse64.log for example)

[Saint_Chewy]

58 minutes ago, sheson said:

That was totally expected, especially after testing with the old version of SSE Engine Fixes did not make a difference as well.

There is something else is addition to SSE Engine Fixes that needs to happen to have a vanilla script command going weird all of sudden, otherwise we would have had thousands of reports in the past years about this. Typically, the number one suspect in these case are Skyrim INI settings, but I have not seen anything that sticks out in the INIs you uploaded and no stutter happened after putting the INIs into the MO2 profile I made for this issue with the full DynDOLOD.esm you uploaded etc.

There is no workaround yet, we are still in the middle of troubleshooting. 

If you want to stop troubleshooting, then I suggest to not generate any dynamic LOD or to disable the large reference system by setting uLargeRefLODGridSize=5 and IgnoreLargeReferences=1 in the DynDOLOD_SSE.ini while keeping the scripts from DynDOLOD Resources SE.

Use the default EngineFixes.toml, so the issue happens as usual and set VerboseLogging = true. Do the test, upload c:\Users\[USERNAME]\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SKSE\EngineFixes.log (might as well upload every other log that gets updated with the same timestamp, like skse64.log for example)

Oh no I want to continue troubleshooting I just know that I have taken up so much of your time and I just feel bad. I will do the test you asked and will upload shortly. Thank you for your help I am very grateful.

Edit: Logs are attached now

skse64.log skse64_steam_loader.log skse64_loader.log PapyrusUtilDev.log EngineFixes.log

Edited November 4, 2022 by Saint_Chewy

[Tetrol88]

Odd and amusing thing going on - 

Updated to latest version, re-ran Dyndolod - and now I am finding little "Easter eggs" all over the place - inside the Whiterun gates, at the entrance to Riverwood, just outside of White River Watch etc (only been Helgen - Riverwood - Whiterun area so far)

What? - various candles - Candle Horns, Silver Candlesticks etc - and using more informative console they are vanilla resources placed by Dyndolod itself. Some example references are D3106C07, D310799F, D3105607, D310826E

Nothing game breaking, but all a bit odd

[sheson]

6 minutes ago, Tetrol88 said:

Odd and amusing thing going on - 

Updated to latest version, re-ran Dyndolod - and now I am finding little "Easter eggs" all over the place - inside the Whiterun gates, at the entrance to Riverwood, just outside of White River Watch etc (only been Helgen - Riverwood - Whiterun area so far)

What? - various candles - Candle Horns, Silver Candlesticks etc - and using more informative console they are vanilla resources placed by Dyndolod itself. Some example references are D3106C07, D310799F, D3105607, D310826E

Nothing game breaking, but all a bit odd

Read the first post which log and debug log to upload when making posts.
https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs
https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots

Read https://dyndolod.info/FAQ "Out of place or floating objects"

[Tetrol88]

All well and good but ALL the references are Dyndolod ones - the base IDs are from Dyndolod.esm - eg Candlehorn 260162F0 and the refIDs are Dyndold.esp - all are placed at entrances/exits to settlements or dungeon areas. A singleshot with more informative console overlay showing the references is one just inside of the Whiterun gates, but have seen them in lots of places - town entrances (eg Riverwood, Rorikstead) and on the approach roads to Dungeons eg White River Watch

[sheson]

2 hours ago, Tetrol88 said:

All well and good but ALL the references are Dyndolod ones - the base IDs are from Dyndolod.esm - eg Candlehorn 260162F0 and the refIDs are Dyndold.esp - all are placed at entrances/exits to settlements or dungeon areas. A singleshot with more informative console overlay showing the references is one just inside of the Whiterun gates, but have seen them in lots of places - town entrances (eg Riverwood, Rorikstead) and on the approach roads to Dungeons eg White River Watch

Read the first post which log and debug log to upload when making posts.

Read https://dyndolod.info/FAQ "Out of place or floating objects"
Test with new game, wait in the exterior for the DynDOLOD initialized message before moving. If the problem goes away, the updating of an existing save game with old DynDOLOD plugins went wrong. Follow the instructions how to update DynDOLOD.
Some mods are made with disregard to generating LOD or require updated rules and configs for best compatibility. This is especially true for mods modifying the walled cities. Users are asked and welcome to provide feedback to the official DynDOLOD support forum in order to get everything working with as much compatibility as possible. Include a link to the mod and screenshots (with open console / form id) to show the issues if possible. If the reference is added by a DynDOLOD plugin, follow the "pluginname_formid" information found in the Editor ID of the reference to find the plugin from which this reference originates. Also see How to ignore all references of a child worldspace for copying to parent worldspace and LOD.

https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots
If the form ID points to a DynDOLOD plugin, load the plugin into xEdit and look up the reference. Take note of the Editor ID, which is typically of the format pluginname_formID for the source plugin and reference.

The screenshot shows the pluginname_formid is hf_lakeview_avantgarden_exesp_029999

Looking up the reference in xx0029999 in HF_Lakeview_AvantGarden_EX.esp shows it uses a STAT base record type and Clutter\GlazedCandlesStatic02.nif, while the screenshot shows MSTT base record type and GlazedCandlesStatic02_havok.nif, so it looks like got replaced by something. The reference in the DynDOLOD plugin should have the same position as the original reference, unless maybe if base object swapper is involved. As requested before, provide log and debug log and any information about what mod(s) you are using that changes those lanterns to MSTT / *_havok.nif.