DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 182

[EazyH]

Hey folks! I have a question. I have a few very scattered trees about the size of Bent Pines. They don’t have dedicated 3D LOD however, so the billboards created don’t work well and lead to a very noticeable transition. What I have done instead since these trees are so scattered was use custom rules for the mesh- LOD 4: FULL, LOD 8: FULL, LOD 16: FULL, VWD and FarLOD

Results are acceptable and much better than the billboards.

 

Yesterday I tried the same settings but w/ FarFULL instead, and I can’t tell if it was just my imagination, but at first glance it looked slightly better than FarLOD (Which would make sense), but if it would generally lead to a *much* bigger performance impact, I can live with FarLOD.

 

So my question is basically how big of performance gap is there (in general) between FarLOD and FarFULL when using Full rules, and would there be a sizeable visual difference between the two settings? 
 

Thanks!

Edited June 22, 2022 by EazyH

[sheson]

1 hour ago, sheson said:

You did not say which DynDOLOD version you are using.
You did not say which Bent Pine II version or download option you are using.
The Bent Pines II mod includes a 3D LOD model and a DynDOLOD rule file (as noted in the DynDOLOD docs). The mod does not include Billboards.
DynDOLOD Resources SE includes an improved 3D LOD model and DynDOLOD 3 Alpha includes updated rules for Bent Pines.

Using the full models for all object LOD levels is not recommended, especially if dedicated 3D tree LOD models exist.

FarFull and FarLOD are settings for dynamic LOD. If no 3D tree LOD model exists, FarLOD falls back to FarFull automatically.
AFAIK none of the Bent Pines should have dynamic LOD.

Nobody else but you can actually measure the performance impact of the different settings for your load order. in fact, you already tested the visual and performance impact in the game yourself.

 

You did not say which DynDOLOD version you are using.
You did not say which Bent Pine II version or download option you are using.
The Bent Pines II mod includes a 3D LOD model and a DynDOLOD rule file (as noted in the DynDOLOD docs). The mod does not include Billboards.
DynDOLOD Resources SE includes an improved 3D LOD model and DynDOLOD 3 Alpha includes updated rules for Bent Pines.

Using the full models for all object LOD levels is not recommended, especially if dedicated 3D tree LOD models exist.

FarFull and FarLOD are settings for dynamic LOD. If no 3D tree LOD model exists, FarLOD falls back to FarFull automatically.
AFAIK none of the Bent Pines should have dynamic LOD.

Nobody else but you can actually measure the performance impact of the different settings for your load order. in fact, you already tested the visual and performance impact in the game yourself.

[EazyH]

1 hour ago, sheson said:

You did not say which DynDOLOD version you are using.
You did not say which Bent Pine II version or download option you are using.
The Bent Pines II mod includes a 3D LOD model and a DynDOLOD rule file (as noted in the DynDOLOD docs). The mod does not include Billboards.
DynDOLOD Resources SE includes an improved 3D LOD model and DynDOLOD 3 Alpha includes updated rules for Bent Pines.

Using the full models for all object LOD levels is not recommended, especially if dedicated 3D tree LOD models exist.

FarFull and FarLOD are settings for dynamic LOD. If no 3D tree LOD model exists, FarLOD falls back to FarFull automatically.
AFAIK none of the Bent Pines should have dynamic LOD.

Nobody else but you can actually measure the performance impact of the different settings for your load order. in fact, you already tested the visual and performance impact in the game yourself.

Thanks for your response. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

 

I’m using DynDOLOD 3 (sorry, thought I was on the  DynDOLOD 3 forum and not 2). This is not for Bent Pines II. The trees I’m referring to however are big and about that size. A Sakura tree (sakuratree.nif is specified) and a few weeping willows(treewillow01 and 02 for example), none w/ 3D LOD. They are very spread out and hand placed, hence the rules I used. So you’re saying that in that case, FarLOD and FarFULL would yield the same results? I must have misunderstood something I read that mentioned sitting it to full w/ FarLOD was a possibility (Don’t remember the exact wording but I read it in the docs when reading about custom statues.

 

Also touching on Bent Pines: when DynDOLOD 3 alpha was relatively new, I constantly ran into issues where Bent Pines would use the billboards instead of the 3D LOD. Back then, you recommended deleting the billboards from TexGen, then after that it worked as intended. I assume I no longer need to do that anymore then? Back then I may have been still learning how the custom rules worked though, so it may have been user error.

 

The last thing I will touch on is for custom statues from Mandragora. Unlike some of the vanilla statue placement, I noticed custom rules alone didn’t work out the box for some of these meshes. Once I made the reference persistent w/ vwd flag however, I was able to have DynDOLOD catch it and had distant LOD w/ the above rules. Is that typically the case for making DynDOLOD catch a static reference that isn’t a tree? And do the rules matter or were the “persistent, vwd, isfullLOD” flags enough?

 

Sorry if any of these questions come across as Elementary, learning a bit more little by little and elevating the look of my LOD

Edited June 22, 2022 by EazyH

[sheson]

47 minutes ago, EazyH said:

Thanks for your response. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

 

I’m using DynDOLOD 3 (sorry, thought I was on the  DynDOLOD 3 forum and not 2). This is not for Bent Pines II. The trees I’m referring to however are big and about that size. A Sakura tree (sakuratree.nif is specified) and a few weeping willows(treewillow01 and 02 for example), none w/ 3D LOD. They are very spread out and hand placed, hence the rules I used. So you’re saying that in that case, FarLOD and FarFULL would yield the same results? I must have misunderstood something I read that mentioned sitting it to full w/ FarLOD was a possibility (Don’t remember the exact wording but I read it in the docs when reading about custom statues.

 

Also touching on Bent Pines: when DynDOLOD 3 alpha was relatively new, I constantly ran into issues where Bent Pines would use the billboards instead of the 3D LOD. Back then, you recommended deleting the billboards from TexGen, then after that it worked as intended. I assume I no longer need to do that anymore then? Back then I may have been still learning how the custom rules worked though, so it may have been user error.

 

The last thing I will touch on is for custom statues from Mandragora. Unlike some of the vanilla statue placement, I noticed custom rules alone didn’t work out the box for some of these meshes. Once I made the reference persistent w/ vwd flag however, I was able to have DynDOLOD catch it and had distant LOD w/ the above rules. Is that typically the case for making DynDOLOD catch a static reference that isn’t a tree? And do the rules matter or were the “persistent, vwd, isfullLOD” flags enough?

 

Sorry if any of these questions come across as Elementary, learning a bit more little by little and elevating the look of my LOD

I moved the posts to the DynDOLOD 3 Alpha thread.

https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules#Dynamic-LOD-Options
"LOD means to use a LOD model (LOD Level 0) if available or fall back to a full model if needed."

If no 3D tree (object) LOD model exist it has to use the full model.

You need to disable billboards because you are generating standard tree LOD (e.g. you do not check Ultra). if not generating ultra tree LOD, standard tree LOD always takes preference if billboards exist. The mesh mask rules for object/dynamic LOD only apply to trees that can not have standard tree LOD, either because a billboard does not exist or because of other technical reasons, like tilt angle or a tree being placed in the same area as as the walled cities for example).
If the ultra option is checked, then the mesh mask rules apply, e.g. they define what object LOD level uses which LOD asset for every (matched) tree.

Mesh mask rules match based on the full model filename and the other mesh mask settings. https://dyndolod.info/Help/Mesh-Mask-Reference-Rules
The Persistence or VWD/Has Distant LOD flags on references/base records do not matter for DynDOLOD LOD generation.
IsFullLOD flag is converted to object/dynamic LOD as always.
https://dyndolod.info/DynDOLOD-Reference

[EazyH]

Thank you, it is very likely I had tree ticked at the time as I was becoming familiar with the tool. Appreciate the response. Also I submitted a message because I thought the thread was deleted and there was an error but please feel free to ignore if you get it.

[eternalraven]

zippedlogs.7z

On 6/21/2022 at 3:56 AM, sheson said:

I moved the post to the DynDOLOD 3 Alpha thread.

Read the first post which log and debug log to upload (both for TexGen and DynDOLOD in this case)

If making screenshots, use tfc to enable the free camera mode to get closer to LOD or if that makes the problem go away, try to use a small fov to "zoom" into the problem.

Double check that no third party billboards are installed. Use TexGen to generate all required and desired billboards. https://dyndolod.info/Help/Tree-Grass-LOD-Billboards#3rd-Party-LOD-Billboards

If you are certain this happens with a billboard generated by TexGen, zip and upload all the billboard files (dds and txt) that Texgen generated.

When I ran Dyndolod I had a very minimal modlist installed: Address Library, Papyrus Util, Dyndolod Resources, Skyrim Realistic Overhaul, Cathedral Water, Water Mod, SMIM, Skyrim Fixes Collection, Ancient trees (textures/meshes only, no esp), Blended Roads, Realistic Aspen trees, Particle Patch Water Effects and Brightness Fix, USSEP, Wintersun, Wyrmstooth, Forgotten City (in case its relevant).

I checked every single mod and did not find any billboards. Except for Realistic Aspen Trees, but that does not affect pine trees and does not appear to have an impact on the result (I have this issue even without it).

I will copy the log and debug logs. I will try to take a better screenshot when I can play Skyrim again. 

For now I've uploaded the logs in a zipped file. Here is the link to the file sharing service in addition to the files below https://ufile.io/4fhdcwwb

I do not know how to upload texgen output with the 3MB cap these forums have. Even zipped it reads 58MB. (Nevermind, figured it out, just uploaded the files for tree lods)

zippedlogs.7z

lodgen.7z

Edited June 22, 2022 by eternalraven
I found the files just for tree billboards, zipped and uploaded it.

[sheson]

46 minutes ago, eternalraven said:

zippedlogs.7z 177.66 kB · 1 download

When I ran Dyndolod I had a very minimal modlist installed: Address Library, Papyrus Util, Dyndolod Resources, Skyrim Realistic Overhaul, Cathedral Water, Water Mod, SMIM, Skyrim Fixes Collection, Ancient trees (textures/meshes only, no esp), Blended Roads, Realistic Aspen trees, Particle Patch Water Effects and Brightness Fix, USSEP, Wintersun, Wyrmstooth, Forgotten City (in case its relevant).

I checked every single mod and did not find any billboards. Except for Realistic Aspen Trees, but that does not affect pine trees and does not appear to have an impact on the result (I have this issue even without it).

I will copy the log and debug logs. I will try to take a better screenshot when I can play Skyrim again. 

For now I've uploaded the logs in a zipped file. Here is the link to the file sharing service in addition to the files below https://ufile.io/4fhdcwwb

I do not know how to upload texgen output with the 3MB cap these forums have. Even zipped it reads 58MB. (Nevermind, figured it out, just uploaded the files for tree lods)

zippedlogs.7z 177.66 kB · 1 download

lodgen.7z 1.92 MB · 0 downloads

Which billboard is the one you have the problems with? The path contains the name of the plugin, full model filename without .NIF and the form ID of the tree base record as reported by More Informative Console.

If you have MO2 you can simply check the right window data tab which mod supplies a loose file.

[eternalraven]

49 minutes ago, sheson said:

Which billboard is the one you have the problems with? The path contains the name of the plugin, full model filename without .NIF and the form ID of the tree base record as reported by More Informative Console.

If you have MO2 you can simply check the right window data tab which mod supplies a loose file.

The billboard for treepineforest01.nif, and treepineforestsnowl01.nif. Any tree that uses those models has the issue. This is with vanilla trees - skyrim.esm. I am not at my gaming PC so I can't load up the game with More Informative Console to get the rest of the information, this has been a pervasive issue though so I remember what tree model specifically has the problem (but not the formID).

[sheson]

37 minutes ago, eternalraven said:

The billboard for treepineforest01.nif, and treepineforestsnowl01.nif. Any tree that uses those models has the issue. This is with vanilla trees - skyrim.esm. I am not at my gaming PC so I can't load up the game with More Informative Console to get the rest of the information, this has been a pervasive issue though so I remember what tree model specifically has the problem (but not the formID).

I need to know the form ID of the tree base record to know which billboard files to check and to find entries in the log for it.
Doublecheck the virtual data folder in MO2 for the mod that contains the billboard(s) in question. The form ID helps to identify the exact files.

I am not going anywhere (for longer than a day), so you can upload stuff whenever you find the time.

Also upload the log and debug log from DynDOLOD. The zipped logs only contain the TexGen logs.

[Dez756]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:45 AM, sheson said:

Hi - upgraded to Dyndolod 3.0 Alpha 95 after using 2.93 successfully for a long time.  I ran xLodgen and Texgen (as well as Dyndolod) using the instructions here and at the main site. 

The results, using Happy Little Trees, Veydosebrom, JK's Skyrim, Majestic Mountains and EEK's Renthal, are fantastic throughout Tamriel. 

But when I go to Riften, I get an immediate CTD whenever I am able to see the Gates (North or South).  When I disable the Dyndolod plugins, though, I can look at those gates without issue. 

I'm pulling my hair out on this.  My main question is should I concentrate on Dyndolod or are there other issues you think I should check first.

Thanks for your anticipated help.

Updated all texture and mesh mods.  Downloaded the most recent version of xLodgen.  Ran that, Texgen and Dyndolod.  xLodgen and Texgen ran without errors.  Dyndolod had many warnings, most it seems associated with Bruma (which I think is expected per the mod page?).  After everything was done and the results in my load order, I went to Riften and the game CTD'd as soon as I looked at the North Gate.  I'm pretty sure it's the North Gate that is the problem because I traveled there again after disabling the Dyndolod plugin in MO2, entered Riften, saved and quit.  I then reloaded that save after re-enabling the plugins, exited Riften from the same gate and was able to look everywhere, including at the two guards.  The game CTD'd when I turned to look at the gate.

I've looked at the logs and the summary and don't see anything I can identify as related to the Riften Gate and, even if I could, I'm not sure what I need to do to fix such a problem.  The logs are uploaded here.  No bugreport was produced.  The debug logs are at the links below.

I have a lot of mods but I'll note that I've managed to get them all to work without, prior to this, any issues, including any CTDs.  I've used prior versions of xLodgen and Dyndolod successfully.  Even with the current issue, Tamriel is a beautiful place with Dyndolod in the load order.  Just can't look at the Riften Gates.

I'm going to run through the checklist for CTDs you provided in your response to my initial post.

Help me, Sheson, you're my only hope.

https://ufile.io/tlnefh0y

https://ufile.io/27ug2ycn

DynDOLOD_SSE_log.txt TexGen_SSE_log.txt

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dez756

[sheson]

7 hours ago, Dez756 said:

Updated all texture and mesh mods.  Downloaded the most recent version of xLodgen.  Ran that, Texgen and Dyndolod.  xLodgen and Texgen ran without errors.  Dyndolod had many warnings, most it seems associated with Bruma (which I think is expected per the mod page?).  After everything was done and the results in my load order, I went to Riften and the game CTD'd as soon as I looked at the North Gate.  I'm pretty sure it's the North Gate that is the problem because I traveled there again after disabling the Dyndolod plugin in MO2, entered Riften, saved and quit.  I then reloaded that save after re-enabling the plugins, exited Riften from the same gate and was able to look everywhere, including at the two guards.  The game CTD'd when I turned to look at the gate.

I've looked at the logs and the summary and don't see anything I can identify as related to the Riften Gate and, even if I could, I'm not sure what I need to do to fix such a problem.  The logs are uploaded here.  No bugreport was produced.  The debug logs are at the links below.

I have a lot of mods but I'll note that I've managed to get them all to work without, prior to this, any issues, including any CTDs.  I've used prior versions of xLodgen and Dyndolod successfully.  Even with the current issue, Tamriel is a beautiful place with Dyndolod in the load order.  Just can't look at the Riften Gates.

I'm going to run through the checklist for CTDs you provided in your response to my initial post.

Help me, Sheson, you're my only hope.

https://ufile.io/tlnefh0y

https://ufile.io/27ug2ycn

DynDOLOD_SSE_log.txt 1.84 MB · 0 downloads TexGen_SSE_log.txt 173.84 kB · 0 downloads

The logs seem OK. No root node and no texture resolution errors that are known to cause direct CTD.

Upload the crash log from .Net Framework or Crash Logger if using runtime 1.6.

[sheson]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:03 PM, DarthVitrial said:

Good luck ^^;
Sorry the logs/bugreport didn't have the full details on what was racing with what.

I didn't try to reproduce yet but see what happens with this test version https://mega.nz/file/1Ap1xSIJ#0rH-NiyQAD5QdWvDlgPb6l3I8cldU9vF4NK5mH5AL0o

[4sakN]

Access violation at address.

Tried searching 0124d1cb in form ID. And CreateWorshipper in Editor ID. Have no idea how to search for these errors or the origin of the problem. Have run through my plugins with Check for Errors and cleaned what I could. 

https://ufile.io/qwnfpnsg

Honestly, if someone could let me know how to search for the origin of the problem, that's all I need, but I appreciate any help.

[Dez756]

4 hours ago, sheson said:

Upload the crash log from .Net Framework or Crash Logger if using runtime 1.6.

I've never had to do that and don't know where they are located.  Can you advise?

[sheson]

2 hours ago, 4sakN said:

Access violation at address.

Tried searching 0124d1cb in form ID. And CreateWorshipper in Editor ID. Have no idea how to search for these errors or the origin of the problem. Have run through my plugins with Check for Errors and cleaned what I could. 

https://ufile.io/qwnfpnsg

Honestly, if someone could let me know how to search for the origin of the problem, that's all I need, but I appreciate any help.

The memory address at which the exception happens has nothing  to do with form IDs. CreateWorshipper is a function in the program.
There are still plugins that have deleted references that should be cleaned.

Load the cell 00009924 in xEdit. Let me know if/which plugins are listed between Skyrim.esm and BSHeartland.esm.

As you can see in xEdit, BSHeartland.esm deletes the CELL. I can not think of a good reason why this is done (someone enlighten me if this is done for a reason), so it might be a wild edit.
Removing the overwrite from BSHeartland.esm should let the process run through. Let me know in case there is still a problem.

Next DynDOLOD 3 Alpha version will deal with this more gracefully either way.

1 hour ago, Dez756 said:

I've never had to do that and don't know where they are located.  Can you advise?

Typically they end up in the MO2 overwrite folder.