Fallout 76 - new game from Bethesda!

[rootsrat]

Here we goooo!

 

[baronaatista]

Set in West Virginia, and appears to be the earliest game in the series' universe thus far - Oct. 27th, 2102 (Fallout 1 takes place in 2161).

 

I'm slightly disappointed as I was really hoping we could go back to the west coast.  The NCR, WC Brotherhood and Caesar's Legion are the most memorable and interesting factions in the franchise, and I'm truly not sure why BGS seems not to want to touch them. 

 

That being said, while the location doesn't quite pique my interest (at least not on the surface - there are definitely ways to make WV a genuinely interesting region), the date does;  I'm imagining this will be essentially when the first vaults are opening in the universe - it's entirely possible Vault 76 is the very first vault to open.  Technically,  there really shouldn't be Super Mutants.  Nor should there really be established settlements for the most part.  Will ghouls be a thing?  Will radiation be more of a hazard?  This is before people managed to tame any significant part of the wasteland - will the world be more dangerous?  Will they finally commit to making a real, full-fledged survival mode?

 

Anyway, despite the fact that I personally have heavily criticized Fallout 4 in the past for it's poorly written story (moreso, dialogue) and it's jumbled mess of half-finished mechanics;  the game is a ton of fun to play, and I am legitimately excited to find out about the latest installment.

[baronaatista]

Oh god.  Strong rumors that it is an online, survival-RPG akin to Rust.

 

Please no.

 

No, Bethesda.

[DarkladyLexy]

I going to say it do we really need another Fallout Base game so soon?

[rootsrat]

Personally I am just waiting for E3 to see what it's going to be :)

 

Shame it's not a new full fledged TES.

[Majorman]

I have pretty low expectations after seeing what FO4 looked like. The whole tragedy is that Fallout 4 abandoned its RPG roots and story-driven gameplay for sandbox action play and sold very well. There is no turning back now, I'm afraid, which means that the franchise is dead to me. It suits me fine, though, as I still have Tides of Numeria and both Pillars of Eternity on my wishlist.

[Shadriss]

... which means that the franchise is dead to me.

Only just now?

 

I played the originals (1 &2) back in the 90's. They were straight up (and messed up...) RPGs, and I enjoyed the series far more back then. Bethesda's attempts to make this universe bigger and better have ended up, instead, flat and uninsipred. I gave them a shot - plenty, in fact. Despite my statement here, I do own all of the games they've released for Fallout. I keep hoping they will somehow get it right, get back to the style, gameplay, and storytelling that made the franchise noteworthy in the first place. They haven't. At this point, I'm not sure I have it in me to give it another try... especially if it does turn out to be MMO in some way. 

 

Seriously, Bethesda - why another FO title when a great many have been waiting thier turn for another TES game that ISN'T online MMO? Isn't it our turn now?

[baronaatista]

ESO is why there is no new Elder Scrolls game.  They're making a ton of money off it from what I've heard, and are clearly continuing to push expansions and so on.  

 

The next round of Bethesda games are all likely to incorporate online features in some way, as that's where the money is these days, and they are well suited (at least thematically) to have these features.  An Elder Scrolls VI with online elements would bury ESO.  Yet another Fallout allows them to start up a new little money making machine while keeping the ESO gravy train rolling.

 

I also don't agree that the Bethesda Fallout games have been bad.  The major issue for me that they consistently have across all their games is tone.  If you look at Fallout 4 in terms of it's story structure it is remarkably similar to New Vegas;  there are multiple factions in conflict with one another and the winners and losers of that conflict are shaped by the players actions.  You are pulled into the storyline by a mysterious actor who you are constantly on the heels of but never able to catch, looking for revenge, information and so on.  Then at some point the game flips - you realize things aren't quite as they seem and the world opens up for you to explore and learn about the forces at play.  No choice is wholly good, and its up to you to decide where your (or your character's) morality lies.

 

Where Fallout 4 fails is it's tone;  there is a very light, silly / quirky kind of tone to the whole game which just starkly contrasts the setting.  It's supposed to be a nuclear apocalypse where largely isolated groups of humanity are struggling to survive, under constant threat from all manner of horrible creatures, savage raiders, radiation poisoning, etc.  You still want to keep it funny of course, humor has always been a staple of the franchise - and weird.  Just not light and silly.  It should feel like the Walking Dead meets Preacher or something (actually that's a thing I've said for a while now - Garth Ennis would be a great writer for Fallout).

 

The game also has major issues with it's writing, particularly with how factions are written - the character and motivations of the various factions involved, which was a strong suit of New Vegas;  Look at Caesars explanation of his motivations in NV, where he goes into Hegelian Dialectics, and then look at Father's explanation for the Institute;  they want to help humanity survive the apocalypse... by replacing it with synths?  

 

Anyway my point is that those are related and very fixable problems.  And I have heard that longtime lead writer Emil Pagliarulo works in a different position in the company now... and rumors that Chris Avellone is working for BGS currently...

 

All that said, what they announce at E3 could change my tone on this dramatically... we shall see.

[Majorman]

I also don't agree that the Bethesda Fallout games have been bad.  The major issue for me that they consistently have across all their games is tone.  If you look at Fallout 4 in terms of it's story structure it is remarkably similar to New Vegas;  there are multiple factions in conflict with one another and the winners and losers of that conflict are shaped by the players actions.  

 

Bethesda's Fallout games are not bad. But Fallout 4 is a terrible Fallout game and an abysmal RPG. The protagonist's backstory makes the RP elements too linear - there is no chance a sane parent out for revenge will root for the Institute ever. It also lacks consequences for the most part - one can work for the institute almost to the very end and then betray them in the end. New Vegas, for example, blocks certain factions' storylines very early as you start working for the competition. Dialogues are badly written and often the choice of a line by the PC leaves to exactly the same response. Some characters are not lore friendly and even break FO's internal logic - like the infamous kid in the fridge. The factions that you mention are poorly designed - the whole idea is more suitable to a Blade Runner game than to Fallout. And again, considering lore-friendliness - compare the life-like synths to the other bulky metal robots in the series - how has a post-apocalyptic world managed to achieve such an evolution in robotics without any industry running whatsoever.

 

And everybody and their grandma in Bethesda FO games has an access to FEV and creates super-mutants (FEV was supposed to be a super-secret experimental substance).

 

Also, the axing of the SPECIAL mechanics for a streamlined, idiot-proof perk based system was a big "f*ck you" to veteran fans.

 

I think that I could get into FO 4 though, if it bore another name and was marketed as an action game with some RP elements, but then BioShock Infinity is a better story-driven action game with RP elements and GTA V is a better sandbox action game.

[baronaatista]

... I actually agree with just about all of that, yeah.  The fact that it's called 'Fallout' just doesn't bug me all that much.  

 

I do think most of those problems stem from poor writing though (and yes, fair enough a lot of questionable game design), and that a shift in focus on the development side could clear up most of the issues.  That being said, the overall direction of Fallout 4 does leave me generally wary of what's to come.  I think they could turn it around with a focus on storytelling and non-linear / branching quests and hopefully striking a more mature tone... I'm not sure that's where they're going as a company though.

 

Anyway, I hold out hope.  BGS games are my favorite games.  There's so much about every one of them that I don't like;  each game feels to me like a partially-completed masterpiece.  Regardless, there is something about the basic mechanics of the games, something in the way Bethesda designs worlds, something in the lore and history of each universe...  they draw me in, like nothing else.  

[Starac]

People, did you really expect good writing, good RPG elements, good quests, after abomination called Skyrim? Fallout 4 is just continuation of the same. 

The last decent game from Bethesda was Fallout 3. And it was just decent.   

[Shadriss]

ESO is why there is no new Elder Scrolls game...

 

I also don't agree that the Bethesda Fallout games have been bad.  

To the first, I reluctantly agree - I enjoy a few MMOs, and they've been a cash cow for a long time. My problem with that idea, in this case, is that as a MMO, the single-player narrative is essentially destroyed by the MMO format. Many companies have tried (with some more successful than others) to make the MMO story seem player driven, but the fact is that it isn't, and I am far more compelled by story lines than I am leveling up and grinding.

 

To the second, I never once said they were bad - I said that I preferred it in the original games where it was a straight RPG, and not an Action/RPG Hybrid. While the open world engines Beth uses work fairly well with it, and it could certainly have been good, they are, as Starac mentioned, 'just decent'. It's gone downhill from there. Majorman summed up many of my problems nicely.

 

...Fallout 4 is a terrible Fallout game and an abysmal RPG. The protagonist's backstory makes the RP elements too linear... It also lacks consequences for the most part... characters are not lore friendly and even break FO's internal logic... factions that you mention are poorly designed... everybody and their grandma in Bethesda FO games has an access to FEV and creates super-mutants (FEV was supposed to be a super-secret experimental substance)... the axing of the SPECIAL mechanics for a streamlined, idiot-proof perk based system was a big "f*ck you" to veteran fans.

Since they took up the torch and ran with Fallout, it has been progressively getting 'dumbed down', and FO4 was what finally killed it as a series for me. The setting is a good one - hence the reason it's still going - but the execution has been getting further and further away from its roots the longer they've gone. Of course, you already agreed with those points for the most part. 

 

I do think most of those problems stem from poor writing though (and yes, fair enough a lot of questionable game design), and that a shift in focus on the development side could clear up most of the issues. 

 

There's so much about every one of them that I don't like;  each game feels to me like a partially-completed masterpiece.  Regardless, there is ... something in the way Bethesda designs worlds, something in the lore and history of each universe...  they draw me in, like nothing else.  

The writing you refer to is the largest portion of my problem. The mechanics should support the story, not gloss over it as has been done in FO4 (Base building? Seriously? Dangit, Jim, I'm a parent on a mission to save my kid, not a city engineer!), and the over simplification of some of those mechanics in an effort to make them more accessible to people is a crime against the games roots.

 

I do agree with your comment about partially completed masterpieces - each FO has had great potential and a good setting. It's why I've always managed to convince myself to buy the newest one, hoping it will be the one to get it right. But with three full games in the bag, they seem to be missing the mark by further each time, and I find myself unable to have any real hope for a good - not decent, good - Fallout game.

 

Which, I believe, it pretty much what I said in the first place. :)

[baronaatista]

Yeah, I agree of course. It’s just that these games are the only games on the market that scratch that particular itch for me... Pillars of Eternity is close, but I do still want modern mechanics, and there’s something about first person perspective...

 

I say the modding community needs to take matters into our own hands, and build the perfect RPG off the Skyrim SE platform ;)

[Shadriss]

I say the modding community needs to take matters into our own hands, and build the perfect RPG off the Skyrim SE platform ;)

AMEN.

[baronaatista]

Oh... Oh God.  Is anyone seeing this?  It's like they decided to take everything I feared and make it even worse...  I'm speechless right now.