ACCEPTED Skyrim Realistic Overhaul (by Starac)

[Trexasle]

He wants a comparison, between TPC's Textures and Default game textures I think something like this.

 

 

https://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/20801-5-1349536110.jpg

[z929669]

 

 

 

 

 

Very good advice! I see that you learned a lot  

 

I also have a very good advice; remove this TPC nonsense completely.

 

 

 

Just as soon as you create textures for all of Skyrim

 

Actually, TPC is a fairly comprehensive compendium of Skyrim textures from the modding community (although I have not personally evaluated each of Cestral's choices compared to vanilla). If you read Cestral's description, it sounds like a lot of effort was spent on picking these, so I defer to his picks as a baseline over which to install those textures that I know I want.

All textures? No way i'm gonna do this.

 

This is not easy to do, especially how i do it, and it's time consuming. And i don't have any benefit from this.

 

Btw, i did not say to you that you should not use other mods.

 

But this Cestral guy knows nothing about moding. And people expect his analysis!?

I "accept" his analysis indeed, especially since he has qualified his methodology (i.e., comparing textures in-game). Ultimately, his methodology is an aesthetic that I agree with philosophically.

 

And I was just kidding about you fixing all textures ... I know that is not possible unless you were earning a salary ;)

 

I am certain that we can agree that Bethesda artists did not give all of the Skyrim textures the same level of care (else why would Starac bother?).

 

you should take a look at the final result of TPC yourself in-game and critique his choices. I'd appreciate an analysis from a texture artist

Looks like i was wrong about you?

 

I told you once that Skyrim is primarily a console game. So textures, meshes and UV-mapping cannot be better.

 

All i need is to see these 2 pics from TPC:

 

 

Could you post screens of the same with vanilla and your personal preference (i.e., PC version), noting the offending details?

 

My cup is not yet full ...

Could you be more specific?

 

An you know how my textures look. 

I just want to know what you specifically don't like about the above images (this is not a challenge, I just want your insights).

 

I appreciate your work over any texture that directly conflicts, and that is why I suggested copying your textures into the Data directory last. What I am looking for is your opinion on some of Cestral's picks that do not conflict with your textures and why you think that his picks are not better than vanilla in-game.

 

Just saying that if you disagree with TPC, I'd like more specifics as to why you don't like this solution --not in comparison to your work, but rather in comparison to other options, including other mods as well as vanilla. Just a few examples to help me understand your comment, "remove this nonsense completely" ... are there no benefits at all to Cestral's mod in your opinion? I suspect that you may be generalizing just a bit

[Spiffyman]

That sign does not fit in well with the world. It feels very fake compared to everything else...

[Starac]

 

 

 

 

 

Just as soon as you create textures for all of Skyrim

 

Actually, TPC is a fairly comprehensive compendium of Skyrim textures from the modding community (although I have not personally evaluated each of Cestral's choices compared to vanilla). If you read Cestral's description, it sounds like a lot of effort was spent on picking these, so I defer to his picks as a baseline over which to install those textures that I know I want.

All textures? No way i'm gonna do this.

 

This is not easy to do, especially how i do it, and it's time consuming. And i don't have any benefit from this.

 

Btw, i did not say to you that you should not use other mods.

 

But this Cestral guy knows nothing about moding. And people expect his analysis!?

I "accept" his analysis indeed, especially since he has qualified his methodology (i.e., comparing textures in-game). Ultimately, his methodology is an aesthetic that I agree with philosophically.

 

And I was just kidding about you fixing all textures ... I know that is not possible unless you were earning a salary ;)

 

I am certain that we can agree that Bethesda artists did not give all of the Skyrim textures the same level of care (else why would Starac bother?).

 

you should take a look at the final result of TPC yourself in-game and critique his choices. I'd appreciate an analysis from a texture artist

Looks like i was wrong about you?

 

I told you once that Skyrim is primarily a console game. So textures, meshes and UV-mapping cannot be better.

 

All i need is to see these 2 pics from TPC:

 

 

Could you post screens of the same with vanilla and your personal preference (i.e., PC version), noting the offending details?

 

My cup is not yet full ...

Could you be more specific?

 

An you know how my textures look. 

I just want to know what you specifically don't like about the above images (this is not a challenge, I just want your insights).

 

I appreciate your work over any texture that directly conflicts, and that is why I suggested copying your textures into the Data directory last. What I am looking for is your opinion on some of Cestral's picks that do not conflict with your textures and why you think that his picks are not better than vanilla in-game.

 

Just saying that if you disagree with TPC, I'd like more specifics as to why you don't like this solution --not in comparison to your work, but rather in comparison to other options, including other mods as well as vanilla. Just a few examples to help me understand your comment, "remove this nonsense completely" ... are there no benefits at all to Cestral's mod in your opinion? I suspect that you may be generalizing just a bit

I know what you want, and i have already told you that you just need to look at my textures. 

 

TPC combines Skyrim HD and Serious HD with my mod. 

And earlier i have explained you that these 2 mods are amateur work. They use photos and make simple seamless textures from it. 20 minutes job to create one texture.

Also 90% of these textures lack details, they look plastic and blurry, they don't blend good... Normal maps are very bad because in many cases you must create them from more then one layer. Etc.

 

I can write much more about this but i'm not sure do you understand this?

 

TPC is personal compilation. It includes other peoples work, so some textures are normally good, aka SMIM, Water, Flora overhaul... But this is already included in STEP compilation which did a better job. I also don't like all that is included in STEP, but it is better then TPC. So why do you even bother with it?

[Farlo]

I know what you want, and i have already told you that you just need to look at my textures. 

 

TPC combines Skyrim HD and Serious HD with my mod. 

And earlier i have explained you that these 2 mods are amateur work. They use photos and make simple seamless textures from it. 20 minutes job to create one texture.

Also 90% of these textures lack details, they look plastic and blurry, they don't blend good... Normal maps are very bad because in many cases you must create them from more then one layer. Etc.

 

I can write much more about this but i'm not sure do you understand this?

 

TPC is personal compilation. It includes other peoples work, so some textures are normally good, aka SMIM, Water, Flora overhaul... But this is already included in STEP compilation which did a better job. I also don't like all that is included in STEP, but it is better then TPC. So why do you even bother with it?

I think he's looking for more than a "well look at them!" and personally this answer is a little lacking from someone boasting about their work so much.  More details and examples would help on two faces.  On one, your insights would provide another mind on the matter and help us determine the "best" textures, both through whatever empirical means we can and by allowing us to pick at a texture artist's brain.  On top of that, it will probably be good advice for other authors looking to improve their own work.  

 

If you can write more, please do.  The more information there is, the more we can all understand about textures and develop better criteria for analyzing them.  As far as TPC, it compiles all the conflicting graphics mods to both make it easier for users to install and Cestral has put a ton of work into comparing the textures and selecting the best available.  Once again, your insights on his choices (beyond "mine are best") would be greatly appreciated here and will help both Cestral and the community "develop their tastes" as it were to make the whole process even better.

 

TL;DR - Prove it.

[z929669]

I know what you want, and i have already told you that you just need to look at my textures. 

 

TPC combines Skyrim HD and Serious HD with my mod. 

And earlier i have explained you that these 2 mods are amateur work. They use photos and make simple seamless textures from it. 20 minutes job to create one texture.

Also 90% of these textures lack details, they look plastic and blurry, they don't blend good... Normal maps are very bad because in many cases you must create them from more then one layer. Etc.

 

I can write much more about this but i'm not sure do you understand this?

 

TPC is personal compilation. It includes other peoples work, so some textures are normally good, aka SMIM, Water, Flora overhaul... But this is already included in STEP compilation which did a better job. I also don't like all that is included in STEP, but it is better then TPC. So why do you even bother with it?

 

Again, I agree that you work is superior, and I personally disagree with mixing Serious/Skyrim HD in with your work (I prefer yours + vanilla and nothing else).

 

What I want from TPC is those assets that are NOT covered by the three major overhauls (e.g., SMIM, water, flora, etc). The reason taht we employ TPC is that it reduces the STEP install burden on the user and serves as a model for where we are headed with STEP. A largely automated install of the best of the best.

 

We would like your insights and that of other authors to do this best. STEP is not complete

[JudgmentJay]

As a non-graphic artist I don't see anything wrong with SkyrimHD or SeriousHD textures. I trust that you're right about the quality of their work behind the scenes, but the end user (like me) doesn't really care about that so long as it looks good. I never really had a problem with the "install SHD first then overwrite with SRO" method of old STEP, but TPC looks just as good to me and reduces the number of mod packages I have to install. Win-win in my opinion.

[Starac]

I know what you want, and i have already told you that you just need to look at my textures. 

 

TPC combines Skyrim HD and Serious HD with my mod. 

And earlier i have explained you that these 2 mods are amateur work. They use photos and make simple seamless textures from it. 20 minutes job to create one texture.

Also 90% of these textures lack details, they look plastic and blurry, they don't blend good... Normal maps are very bad because in many cases you must create them from more then one layer. Etc.

 

I can write much more about this but i'm not sure do you understand this?

 

TPC is personal compilation. It includes other peoples work, so some textures are normally good, aka SMIM, Water, Flora overhaul... But this is already included in STEP compilation which did a better job. I also don't like all that is included in STEP, but it is better then TPC. So why do you even bother with it?

I think he's looking for more than a "well look at them!" and personally this answer is a little lacking from someone boasting about their work so much.  More details and examples would help on two faces.  On one, your insights would provide another mind on the matter and help us determine the "best" textures, both through whatever empirical means we can and by allowing us to pick at a texture artist's brain.  On top of that, it will probably be good advice for other authors looking to improve their own work.  

 

If you can write more, please do.  The more information there is, the more we can all understand about textures and develop better criteria for analyzing them.  As far as TPC, it compiles all the conflicting graphics mods to both make it easier for users to install and Cestral has put a ton of work into comparing the textures and selecting the best available.  Once again, your insights on his choices (beyond "mine are best") would be greatly appreciated here and will help both Cestral and the community "develop their tastes" as it were to make the whole process even better.

 

TL;DR - Prove it.

I don't want to prove anything.

 

Simple, if you have gift for this kind of art, that's it. You will resonate with me within a second. If not, well that's a problem, and trying to explain will be a long time process. I don't have time for this. Kinda obvious.

 

I'm gonna give you just some pieces (i already did actually), and the rest is your job. 

Your guidance should be vanilla textures cause they fit Skyrim perfectly. While quality is bad, artistically they are superb. Just follow this line.

 

And yes i would help Cestral but to remove my mod completely from his compilation. This dude has never asked me for permission to use my mod. And i have stated this under the credits and permissions from the beginning. Actually i have asked him to remove it, but he refused.

 

Btw, only one person has asked for permission, and thats Brumbek - SMIM creator.

 

Things like this will piss me off and i'm gonna remove SRO completely from Nexus. I'm just waiting for one thing to see will it happen.

 

Again, I agree that you work is superior, and I personally disagree with mixing Serious/Skyrim HD in with your work (I prefer yours + vanilla and nothing else).

 

What I want from TPC is those assets that are NOT covered by the three major overhauls (e.g., SMIM, water, flora, etc). The reason taht we employ TPC is that it reduces the STEP install burden on the user and serves as a model for where we are headed with STEP. A largely automated install of the best of the best.

 

We would like your insights and that of other authors to do this best. STEP is not complete

You are confusing me z929669 :) 

 

And why do you think that this Cestral dude knows better then you, i mean which textures to use? It is vice versa actually!

 

I know that his batch file automatically install textures. What you simply need to do is to ask him to create another batch file which will install textures that you picked, by your order.

 

As a non-graphic artist I don't see anything wrong with SkyrimHD or SeriousHD textures. I trust that you're right about the quality of their work behind the scenes, but the end user (like me) doesn't really care about that so long as it looks good. I never really had a problem with the "install SHD first then overwrite with SRO" method of old STEP, but TPC looks just as good to me and reduces the number of mod packages I have to install. Win-win in my opinion.

You need only 5 mods and HD DLC to have HUGE graphical difference. This means simplicity and quality.

 

TPC requires about 50-60.  

[Besidilo]

You need only 5 mods and HD DLC to have HUGE graphical difference. This means simplicity and quality.

 

TPC requires about 50-60.  

 

Actually 40 mods, excluding Parallax mods (which not everyone uses) and the "big three" (SRO, HD2K and SHD).

 

Personally, I like your textures better than the other two, but I don't like the vanilla textures enough to not replace them with something else. Although it might be a good idea to just use SRO and exclude HD2K and SHD since they obviously aren't the same quality, but arguably, they are still an improvement over vanilla textures.

[z929669]

You are confusing me z929669 :) 

Glad to help ... ;)

And why do you think that this Cestral dude knows better then you, i mean which textures to use? It is vice versa actually!

I agree that I am the best chooser of things I like, but I don't have the time to mimic Cestral's efforts AND help to run this site and STEP ... so I appreciate his efforts in my stead, as do many others I am sure

I know that his batch file automatically install textures. What you simply need to do is to ask him to create another batch file which will install textures that you picked, by your order.

This is essentially what we are doing. Cestral's work is a good proof of concept for new mod users and is representative of where we are going with STEP; however, we will go further in expanding the idea.

 

Technically, Cestral is not redistributing your work, but rather suggesting a context to others for its use (just as we are in STEP). However, I would personally respect an author's wishes not to have their work suggested in a context that they dislike, so perhaps he will work with you aesthetically such that you can stomach the result. Else, he will not, and you will not be happy, and we will miss updates to SRO to be sure ....

 

... now, I for one would like to hear your suggestions for those 5 (more?) mods that you recommend for Skyrim PC.

[Korentin]

Personally, I've gone from being a S.T.E.P. user to basically only using HD DLC, SRO, SMIM, parts of Vurts, RCI, and WATER as enviroment texture replacers. These are all quality works that have been reiterated on for a long time by dedicated and talented individuals, since before I started playing actually. I've come to appreciate just how good the "vanilla" textures really are and I think many tend to go overboard when it comes to modding, installing higher resolution textures for marginal if any actual real increase in quality while really playing the game.

 

It worries me when STEP contributors talks almost disdainfully about "vanilla" and even worse doesn't even seem to be playing the game anymore.

 

Now I am well aware of it being my own opinion and that modding at its core is about actually modifying the game according to your own or a "mission" goal like with STEP, I just like to say that a more complex procedure isn't necessarily a better one. Often just the opposite, again in my opinion.

 

And Starac, I really hope that your textures will be available somewhere even if you do decide to remove them from Nexus. I wish you wouldn't but I understand why you'd do it :)

[frihyland]

And why do you think that this Cestral dude knows better then you, i mean which textures to use? It is vice versa actually!

 

I know that his batch file automatically install textures. What you simply need to do is to ask him to create another batch file which will install textures that you picked, by your order.

 

As a non-graphic artist I don't see anything wrong with SkyrimHD or SeriousHD textures. I trust that you're right about the quality of their work behind the scenes, but the end user (like me) doesn't really care about that so long as it looks good. I never really had a problem with the "install SHD first then overwrite with SRO" method of old STEP, but TPC looks just as good to me and reduces the number of mod packages I have to install. Win-win in my opinion.

You need only 5 mods and HD DLC to have HUGE graphical difference. This means simplicity and quality.

 

TPC requires about 50-60.  

TPC was a one shot inclusion in STEP because we didn't have time to do all that testing ourselves.  Future releases of STEP will use our own custom installer.  Cestral is gone for now and I'm not so sure he will be back so TPC will likely fade away anyhow.

 

Also I have to agree with getting rid of SkyrimHD and SeriousHD, I've certainly never used them for my own game.  The only other texture overhaul that I find artistically good is Insanity's texture pack which I used before discovering SRO.

 

In any case you don't have to worry about this stuff in the future as we are in full control of STEP and we will always respect your wishes. I hope you won't do anything drastic because of one guy who isn't even around anymore.

[frihyland]

Personally, I've gone from being a S.T.E.P. user to basically only using HD DLC, SRO, SMIM, parts of Vurts, RCI, and WATER as enviroment texture replacers. These are all quality works that have been reiterated on for a long time by dedicated and talented individuals, since before I started playing actually. I've come to appreciate just how good the "vanilla" textures really are and I think many tend to go overboard when it comes to modding, installing higher resolution textures for marginal if any actual real increase in quality while really playing the game.

 

It worries me when STEP contributors talks almost disdainfully about "vanilla" and even worse doesn't even seem to be playing the game anymore.

 

Now I am well aware of it being my own opinion and that modding at its core is about actually modifying the game according to your own or a "mission" goal like with STEP, I just like to say that a more complex procedure isn't necessarily a better one. Often just the opposite, again in my opinion.

 

And Starac, I really hope that your textures will be available somewhere even if you do decide to remove them from Nexus. I wish you wouldn't but I understand why you'd do it :)

TC and I came to the same conclusion for 2.2 thats why we cut so many mods, to get back to basics.

 

As far as playing Skyrim I am personally playing Morrowind now and will be back to skyrim in a few months,  I don't think its possible to play a game continuously for more than a couple months, you need good long breaks.

[z929669]

OK, let's get back to SRO and Starac's views and questions to him about his mod before this topic goes off on a tangent. We can open another thread to talk modding philosopies

 

I'll re-pose my question to Starac (see my previous post).

[frihyland]

Yeah that's actually a good question, what are your top 6 graphics mods that you think complement SRO? I would guess SMIM and Vurts Flora Overhaul, not so sure about the rest.