Crash post non-FWE UI Install Check

[SergeTroy]

Hello all, this is my first crack at the 'Clear and Present Danger' guide in practice, with some subtractions from the Core list as I'll note.  The big item going ahead right now is that I am not using FWE and have no intention of doing so for my own personal aesthetic.  Not too suprisingly I ran into a stumbling block when after I'd finished setting up the basic game including the UI basemins the fixes (as per the guide) I attempted to run FOSE through Mod Organizer, which is how I imagine you're supposed to launch a modded game profile, and the game crashed, and locked up, forcing me to unlock with task manager.  So now I'm wondering what I did wrong and thought I'd look to the boards for whatever suggestions you can give me.  :)

 

I'm really not sure where to start, so let me first throw out the exact list that makes up what I threw together for the 'Base UI' section of my own modded setup.  Spoiler tag for space.

 

[spoiler=Personalized Base UI Mods]1. DarNified UI a11 7z version
2. DarNified UI a11 hotfix
- For this mod, on its download via the Archive Install, I chose Manual as with the base
3. Advanced Recon Trap Detection
4. Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision – Detect Traps Patch (merged per guide with above)
5. Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision

- Chose to NOT unpack / extract the BSA(s)

X. Mr Burkes key

- Have not as of yet done anything with this mod beyond downloading it. Neither installed nor enabled (obviously)

6. Advanced Recon Range Finder
7. I Dream of Electric Sheep (Cyborg – Thermal and Nightvision Implants)
- Chose to NOT unpack / extract the BSA(s)

8. Advanced Recon Stealth Armor

- Chose ‘Relaxed: Stealth Field (25 point) when sneaking and standing still’
- Chose to NOT unpack / extract the BSA(s)

9. DYNAVISION – Dynamic Depth of Field
10. The Imaginator for FO3 – Visual Control Device
11. CINEMATECH – Film Grains and Styles
12. Directors Chair – Total Visual Control
13. Adjustable HUD – aHUD
14. Immersive HUD – iHUD
15. UIO – UI Organizer

 

 

Be aware that while LOOT was used to sort the load order, I did not clean the mods (beyond the Bethesda base .esm's) nor did I create anything like a merge / bash patch (not there yet, and it wasn't said in the guide that I should for testing at this stage).

 

My Load order looks like this, per sorting from LOOT

 

[spoiler=Load Order] 0 0 Fallout3.esm
1 1 Anchorage.esm
2 2 ThePitt.esm
3 3 BrokenSteel.esm
4 4 PointLookout.esm
5 5 Zeta.esm
6 6 Detect Traps.esm
7 7 Advanced Recon Tech.esm
8 8 ImaginatorFO3.esp
9 9 CINEMATECH.esm
10 a aHUD.esm
11 b iHUD.esm
12 c DarNifiedUIF3.esp
13 d Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp
14 e Detect Traps - DLC.esp
15 f Detect Traps - Perk.esp
16 10 Advanced Recon Gear.esp
17 11 Detect Traps - The Traponator 4000.esp
18 12 Advanced Recon Tech.esp
19 13 Advanced Recon Range Finder.esp
20 14 IDreamOfElectricSheep.esp
21 15 DYNAVISION - Dynamic Lens Effect.esp
22 16 Directors Chair - Fallout 3.esp
23 17 Advanced Recon Armor.esp
24 18 Advanced Recon Armor-Stealth With Drawn Weapon.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

Now, one thing I'm wondering about is if I messed up somehow in the 'Cleaned Vanilla ESMs.'  I'm pretty sure I followed the instructions there to their entirety, but let me run that by you:  After I'd cleaned each of the .esms (Save Fallout3 of course), I closed out of Mod Organizer and went to <Fallout 3 GOTY\Mod Organizer\overwrite> and found the folder created, "FO3Edit Backups" which contained the un-cleaned .esm's (I assume based on both the guide and the fact of their own size in kb's).  Outside of the FO3Edit Backups but still in <Fallout 3 GOTY\Mod Organizer\overwrite> were the 5 cleaned .esms, each a little smaller than the uncleaned ones.  I cut the cleaned .esm's and navigated to <Fallout 3 GOTY\Mod Organizer\mods> where in a newly created folder (titled "Cleaned Vanilla ESMs") I pasted the newly cleaned .esm's.  I than went back to the FO3Edit Backups folder and moved the "originals' backups" to the <Fallout 3 GOTY\Data folder>.  Per the guide, I renamed each .esm to it's original naming convention (e.g., Anchorage.esm).  I did receive a warning message from windows in regards how this can cause issues with file paths (or something like that, I didn't copy down the info) but proceeded.  Once finished, I found the listed mod in MO's main panel called 'Cleaned Vanilla ESMs' and check-marked it across all profiles, confirming each time auto archive invalidation was still checked.

 

Last thing I have is a screen shot I will try and post of MO when it's on the current profile set up.  Obviously let me know if there's further information I can provide.  Thank you so much for taking the time just to read all this, and more so if any suggestions come to mind.

 

 

Also, be aware I'm not using the SteamLauncher mod, because I really don't care about the overlay, etc.

 

EDIT: I've gone to the INI editor in MO and corrected the [Fonts] section of Fallout.ini so that there is only one 'sFontFile_5,' the "sFontFile_5=Textures\Fonts\Darn_Sui_Generis_Otl_13.fnt"

 which was an error I apparently have not been the only one to make.  I also changed - in FalloutPrefs.ini,  under [Grass] - 'fGrassStartFadeDistance' from the guide recommended 18000 back to the original 7000, just in case (performance hit, I dunno.  3 cells is fine by me). 

 

Editx2: I see that in the Data tab of MO's right pane (where other tabs going left to right are, 'Plugins, Archives, (Data), Saves, & Downloads) that there are 6 red mod listings highlighted in red which I assume to indicate errors.  5 for Cleaned Vanilla ESMs, and 1 for DarNified UI a11 HOTFIX.  I don't know what to do with the hotfix (I'd hoped that was done as correctly as it could have been, not being included in the guide), but in regards the Cleaned Vanilla ESMs:

 

Due to the conflict errors I’m seeing in the MO Data Panel, I will be unchecking the ‘Cleaned Vanilla ESMs,’ removing that folder from the <C:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 3 goty\Mod Organizer\mods> path and moving it to <C:\Games\Odd Mod Backups>*, along with cutting the uncleaned vanilla .esms from the Fallout 3 GotY Data folder, and replacing them with the cleaned .esms.  Let’s see how that works out.

Result: It didn’t.  Same crash.  In MO, there are now 2 alerts rather than 1 in the ‘Problems’ area.

- There are files in your overwrite mod, no guided fix (that was already there)
- AND NOW Missing Masters, no guided fix (that’s new).
Reversing steps taken ...

 

*Note that the  Odd Mod Backups was just a folder I created for just-in-case purposes.

 

So, I'm really confused.  I can see I may have done something wrong with the DarN's UI a11 HF, seeing as that wasn't included in the standard guide, but why are the Cleaned Vanilla ESMs acting up (or being listed as conflicts (red highlight)) when I'm really sure I followed the steps there to a T.  The one mod I'm thinking of beyond those is the Advanced Recon Stealth Armor, as that's not at all part of the Base UI section, and it may have issues, I dunno.  Frus-Strating.  gah!

Edited October 19, 2015 by SergeTroy

[GrantSP]

I think you should acquaint yourself with how MO does what it does by reading the wiki and/or watching the tutorial videos.

 

What you describe as 'conflict errors' in the Data tab are 'conflicts' but not always something that needs to be fixed, ie. errors. That is the Data panel panel is only showing you which mod is "winning" the conflict and which ones are "losing". This is part of modding practice, mods you install provide files that replace existing ones and you need to decide if that is what you wanted, in this case you do.

 

As for the DarN Hotfix, the better option would have been to 'merge' that into the existing DarN mod but placing it directly after the original mod in the left-hand pane does the same thing.

 

You will probably find it easier to follow the existing guides used here in STEP and just omit the FWE references, that will provide you with the order of most mods used by FO3 players.

[SergeTroy]

GrantSP, thank you for replying but I don't think you really read through my full post ... that or I didn't provide the full level of detail necessary, in which case I apologize.  I have actually watched a number of tutorial videos (mostly Gopher's I'll admit) and read through the 'Clear and Present Danger' guide (as well as the Quick Start DDSopt Guide, the Fallout Guide, and the Mod Organizer Guide).  I can't deny that in some places I may have skimmed, but mostly when it was clear I was not approaching that stage yet (DDSopt as one example).

In this particular instance, Fallout 3 will launch through the 'default' fose launcher on the desktop, but has no real success through MO.  Previous to coming on Kelmych's fantastic guide, I had never cleaned the Bethesda plugins before (mostly because I ran into issues between how a tutorial / guide would describe cleaning and the options available in the xEdit version I had (outdated material, you know)).  So for that reason I was concerned I had done something that messed with the set up of things (the appearance (from my understanding) of using both the un-cleaned .esms (in data) and the cleaned .esms (in mod) really made / makes me wonder).  I have also never used the fINIp3 mod before, but that - honestly - went through without a hitch, so again I'm unsure.  As stands, I'm considering re-doing the set up but making sure to actually put in the Updated Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch & Stutter Remover ahead of when the guide recommends.

[GrantSP]

Your method of cleaning the DLC is fine and the Data tab messages are what is expected.

The biggest issue you have described thus far is the failure of FOSE to run correctly. If you can run FOSE from the desktop then there is no reason for MO NOT to run it also.

 

In your last post you mention the UUFO3 patch and Stutter Remover, neither of which are mentioned in your OP.

Is what you describe as your load order what you are trying to run or is this just a small subset? The naming of the profile in that screenshot makes me wonder if you are in fact creating separate profiles for each section and hoping they will all work together.

[SergeTroy]

The load order described is indeed exactly what I have, save for the optional .esp file for adding Mr. Burke's key (which I've had problems with in the past as have a lot of people).  The only reason this particular profile was named 'Fixes and UI' was based off of Kelmych's recommendation, with 'Fixes and UI' being intended as the starting point with what's already there for other fixes to be added (such as UUFO3 and Stutter Remover).  Prior to that there were the 3 profiles recommended, and named exactly as per the guide (my imagination was lacking).  'Default,' 'Vanillla Fallout3,' and 'Clear and Present Danger.'  It should be mentioned that when I ran FOSE from the desktop, it did not have DarN's UI in place, very obviously just from the launch screen (well, the first screen where New Game is an option).  FOSE was working, GetFOSEVersion was fine (='d '1' I believe), but as all the .ini changes were in the virtual editor, I guess that the desktop version wasn't doing much for me.

 

In all honesty, I'm actually really considering just redoing this whole thing in NMM, as the last time I did it there I didn't have any issues save that I wasn't really able to incorporate Mr. Burke's key into the mix (which I'm still not sure was or was not an issue more related to cleaning of the .esm's, or if it's just adding keys in, or what).  OTOH, I might just go through the guide in full but without checking at every section start and finish to see whether or not everything is working fine.  I'd still create the new section profile, but more for review after.  (Apologies if I'm starting to lose coherence, just a combo of tired, frustrated, and not eating right, :p). 

 

I am definitely thrown by the FOSE option.  I just don't know where that issue is coming from.  Base game was a clean install, cache verified correctly; the biggest difference is that normally I haven't before used a virtual area for anything.  Is it the .ini's?   It's just really damn weird.  (BTW, epic jealousy of your VRam, currently working with a slightly buffed AMD 7950 and 2 GP VRAM).

[GrantSP]

I'm biased, but I strongly urge you to resist going back to NMM to set this up. The problems you will face will far outweigh the benefits of using something familiar.

So, just install the guide as it is described so you feel comfortable with the process. Afterwards create a new profile and redo it without the mods you don't want, ie. FWE & its patches.

Once you have a working modded game running through MO you will see why so many people use it over NMM. It's just the initial confusion that needs to be removed. This is why these guides exist, to ease the process.

[Kelmych]

I expect you have done this already, but review the Troubleshooting section of the guide. I've included all the problems that other users have noted. If you are having problems starting the game with FOSE using an MO profile that has only the Steam-installed plugins (Bethesda ESMs or the cleaned version of these) there aren't many things that can cause a CTD.  The only INI problem I had was when the multicore tweak wasn't used; you should try starting with and without it. Are you using an English version of FO3; there are sometimes problems with other FO3 versions as users have discussed in the Mod Organizer Support forums on the site? If the LAA addition didn't get set right it would cause a CTD. I'm assuming you are not using ENBoost since you didn't mention it.

 

To see if Mod Organizer virtual file system is working properly try using Free Commander, setup as an application within Mod Organizer. It you look at the Fallout 3 GOTY\Data directory you should see the mod plugins and resources in the current profile.

 

Some of the mods in your list are not ones that are listed on the UIO page as being supported. You will need to check these to see if they are being setup correctly by UIO.

[SergeTroy]

I'm biased, but I strongly urge you to resist going back to NMM to set this up. The problems you will face will far outweigh the benefits of using something familiar.

So, just install the guide as it is described so you feel comfortable with the process. Afterwards create a new profile and redo it without the mods you don't want, ie. FWE & its patches.

Once you have a working modded game running through MO you will see why so many people use it over NMM. It's just the initial confusion that needs to be removed. This is why these guides exist, to ease the process.

I am going to continue with MO, I just have a strong reaction to my system rejecting me (needed to walk away for a while, :D)  I'm thinking right now it might very well be the .Ini that I messed up on, though I'm not sure how, or it's just as likely (more likely, honestly) to be part of the 4 mods I threw in (Dynavision, Cinematech, the Imaginator, and Director's Chair).  I'm going to be extremely ticked if I can't get Dynavision included under any circumstances, that's one mod I require to be included in my setups, but I can live without the other 3 (I just don't see why they couldn't be included).  Honestly, I suspect I just need to do various tweaking through the manual installation, and keep making sectional Profiles and trying to include them all up to the finale.

 

I expect you have done this already, but review the Troubleshooting section of the guide. I've included all the problems that other users have noted. If you are having problems starting the game with FOSE using an MO profile that has only the Steam-installed plugins (Bethesda ESMs or the cleaned version of these) there aren't many things that can cause a CTD.  The only INI problem I had was when the multicore tweak wasn't used; you should try starting with and without it. Are you using an English version of FO3; there are sometimes problems with other FO3 versions as users have discussed in the Mod Organizer Support forums on the site? If the LAA addition didn't get set right it would cause a CTD. I'm assuming you are not using ENBoost since you didn't mention it.

 

To see if Mod Organizer virtual file system is working properly try using Free Commander, setup as an application within Mod Organizer. It you look at the Fallout 3 GOTY\Data directory you should see the mod plugins and resources in the current profile.

 

Some of the mods in your list are not ones that are listed on the UIO page as being supported. You will need to check these to see if they are being setup correctly by UIO.

It definitely wasn't the multicore tweak: although that wasn't part of the non-MO .ini (which is part of the guide, right?), I've used it extensively on all other iterations and it was the only thing that really kept the game running.  No, I'm using a standard US version as a def, I have run into the issue of being gifted non American versions of my favorite titles before and it was always funny when I wondered, "Isn't the PEGI rating a European one?".  I honenstly didn't have Free Commander XE installed this time around as I'm pretty sure from the way I read the guide it wasn't supposed to be (didn't need to be?) by the time of the UI set up.  One odd thing I came on was that I had run Wrye Flash, I just didn't do anything with it (I think I had somehow gotten the idea that I needed to run it as soon as I extracted it within MO, not sure where I got that from).  So I had a bashed patch at the end of the mod order that was created previous to the last mod added, I don't really know if that matters (honestly never used Bashed Patch mods before this guide, it's something I'm still working on to pick up in language and usage).

 

I'm going to take another run at things with a more 'purely by the guide' example than previous; no Dynavision, etc., until any one 'section' is completed (first section after the base 'Clean and Present Danger' one being 'Base UI,' than 'Core Fixes,' 'Supplemental UI,' 'Additional Fixes,' and so on).  Definition of patience, coming back at ya ... in X hours.  :D

[Kelmych]

You don't need to run Free Commander, just run any executable through MO like FO3Edit or even Wrye Bash that uses the MO virtual file system. I'd also suggest unchecking the bash patch until more mods are installed since it won't provide any use until some of the other mods are in use, especially until the load order is correct.

 

UIO is used to manage menus provided by mods. I don't think the 4 UI mods you listed (certainly not Dynavision) are affected by UIO. They wouldn't be on the list of mods tested with UIO unless they have menus. If they don't add menus then they should be installed after UIO, and if so I suggest not adding them to your testing until you have the game loading through MO with vanilla Fallout 3 and after that with just the mods that use UIO (as per the guide).

 

There have been reported issues trying to use Dynavision in FO3; I didn't look at the other 3. Dynavision does need an additional Fallout.ini parameter added, by the way.

[13thGeneral]

Sorry, wrong thread (I blame the fact I'm on a tablet).

A somewhat related issue, but different enough to likely have distinguishable solution, and thus a separate thread.

Edited November 3, 2015 by 13thGeneral

[SergeTroy]

Not sure if this is needed or not, but just stating for the record that I have a currently working version of Fallout 3 via Mod Organizer, modded with my preferences and to my satisfaction and many thanks to Kelmych's work at consolidating information and the guide in general.  If there's any real changes to come, it'll likely be based on my current use of Windowed Mode via OneTweak (which seems to be doing what's promised), but more likely, when I get a Video Card and/or a totally new PC with a VRAM of >2GB (and probably an NVidia card, if only to give the damned line a shot).