Mods *not* to clean with TES5Edit

[Naoko]

So, after reading/watching tutorials for TES5Edit and using it to clean my main .esm files, I got the impression that I should use it to clean pretty much everything except skyrim.esm, the unofficial patches and a very small number of mods that contain intentional dirty edits.

 

I'm wondering if there's a comprehensive list of things I should definitely NOT clean (in order to avoid breaking them or creating conflicts where there would be none, etc.), or if that list is so small that it shouldn't be a problem?

 

I've read through several places/guides already, like here https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit#Quick_List_of_What_Not_to_Clean

 

and here https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim_Dirty_Plugins_List#Mods_You_Should_NOT_Clean

 

but the number of things really does seem quite small.

 

Also - I understand that it's usually very important to clean mods in order to avoid conflicts and potential in-game wonkiness/CTDs, but although I just started attempting to mod Skyrim for basic stability/bug-fixes, I did end up with a bunch of stuff in my Mod Organizer folder that I'm not sure should be cleaned or not. There's an SKSE-Scripts mod, as well as PapyrusUtil, Distant Decal Fix and Stable uGridsToLoad in MO so far, and I don't know if they require cleaning. *the mods in the screenshot haven't really been organized yet, as I'm still in the process of installing new ones and figuring out what to clean or not.

 

Apologies if this was explained elsewhere and I missed it >_< I just want to make sure I don't break something on my first attempt, before continuing. :)

Edited July 31, 2015 by Naoko

[pStyl3]

LOOT's warning to not clean GDO has been removed, reasoning is here and here. The plugin is absolutely clean since a long time now, therefore the doNotClean tag wasn't needed anymore.

[kryptopyr]

Is LOOT recommending to clean any of my mods?  I suddenly started getting some reports a few weeks ago that it was.  I think I received similar comments concerning WAF, SPO, and CCO.  I haven't had the time to pursue it, and given that I haven't updated any of those mods within that time period, I can only assume it was a change made to the LOOT recommendations and not something I've missed in one of my files.

[Kesta]

Nothing from LOOT regarding your plugins on my setup, and I use all of them ;)

 

Since you're who you are, I'll avoid sounding too acerb, but simply put : From the programming side, it's only possible to fix the code, not the users. This is explicitly written in the xEdit nexus page, as well as in every documentation/ guide available, that attempting to clean multiple plugins at once will break them :

 

Cleaning multiple plugins at once can and will lead to erroneous cleaning and can in many cases lead to unwanted crashes to the desktop. Please look at the Cleaning Tutorial or watch the cleaning videos. They show both loading the plugins you know are required or show only loading the one plugin and letting TES5Edit load any other dependencies. After applying the filter for cleaning, clean only the one plugin. It is imperative that the process is repeated for each individual separate plugin that you wish to clean.

 

That's from the main page. I know and understand that users unable to read the documentation are a real issue and a PITA. I also understand that you're too benevolent to just answer them with a short "RTFM". But still, that's not an argument to justify so-called "required ITM" imho, or consider the "Clean ITM Records" function not-so-safe.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Kesta

[pStyl3]

I don't know all the exact plugin names you are asking for kryptopyr, but you can check that out here. What I am seeing is e.g. this:

 

- name: 'Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp'
    after:
      - 'Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp'
    tag:
      - Delev
      - Relev
      - Stats
  - name: 'Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp'
    after:
      - 'Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp'
    tag:
      - Delev
      - Relev
      - Stats
  - name: 'Clothing Jewelry & Clutter Fixes.esp'
    tag:
      - Stats

So Kesta seems to be right, no 'dirty' entries!

[zilav]

Load any combination of WAF, CCO, SPO, CCF in Tes5Edit and clean any one of them.

And that's why you should never load mod combinations when cleaning, only a plugin to clean and it's masters.

If injected records are indeed the same in all of those plugins, than xEdit is working fine cleaning them out when several are loaded at once. If you really want them to stay in any possible case, then assign unique Editor IDs per plugin.

[kryptopyr]

Thanks for letting me know about my mods.  I'm not sure why I received several comments about LOOT warnings, but if there was an issue at least it looks like it's been addressed.  Thank you.

 

Believe me, I know that you shouldn't load and clean multiple mods at once.  But some people either don't know this, or they get lazy, or otherwise think that because they've been told that it's perfectly fine to ignore what a mod author has stated on their mod's description page, that it's probably also okay to ignore those other "recommendations" about cleaning mods one at a time.

 

I don't know why people do it, and I agree that it's dumb, but people do it.  I'm aware that you "can't fix the users," but you can avoid breaking them further by making generalized statements telling them it's always perfectly safe to use "Remove Identical To Masters records" to clean files even if a mod author says not to do this.  There is no good reason to clean my mods.  If I make a mistake and a dirty edit gets past me, then this should be brought to my attention so I can properly fix it. 

 

My point here is that there's nothing to be gained, and only the possibility of screwing something up, if a user goes against my recommendation and decides to clean my mods.  The earlier posts in this thread seem to suggest that it's fine, perhaps even advisable, to ignore a mod author's statement regarding cleaning, and that mod author's who make such statements should always be suspect.  I feel that making a blanket statement like that is wrong and will lead to trouble for certain users and mod authors.  It's that particular advice and line of reasoning that I'm objecting to. 

 

I stated in my original comment that if everything is done correctly, there shouldn't be any problems created by attempting to clean my mods.  But encouraging a general disregard of a mod author's directions is dangerous and will only lead to more stupid users who feel justified that they know better than the mod author does.  Are there cases where a mod author says "don't clean my mod" and the mod should still be cleaned?  Sure, of course there are; mod authors certainly aren't infallible.  But recommendations to act counter to an author's directions should always be handled on a case-by-case basis, and with clear and justifiable reasons for doing so. 

[Kesta]

 

 or otherwise think that because they've been told that it's perfectly fine to ignore what a mod author has stated on their mod's description page, that it's probably also okay to ignore those other "recommendations" about cleaning mods one at a time.

 

Touché

 

Yeah, got your point on the issue of "telling people to act counter to an author's directions". Might lead to really dumb situations...

 

I don't feel like arguing more about this clean/noclean ITM stuff, matter of opinions I guess. Plus, a lot of them are harmless in most cases. Truth is, peoples don't have any reasons to trust me rather than mod authors themselves anyway

[kranazoli]

Hi,

 

Is there some kind of workarounds to put his mod some kind of exception in LOOT?

 

https://forum.step-project.com/topic/5655-cant-clean-a-mod-with-tes5edit/?p=140802

 

It is clean, but LOOT always shows its warning title, bla-bla... It is clean. At least, for me I haven't managed to clean it via Tes5Edit.

Apply filter ---> Remove Identical ---> Undelete and disable ref. Nothing.

 

Doesn't have LOOT a whitelist plugin, or anything like that?

It's so frustrating. Why couldn't I tell LOOT "Hey! It's clean".

 

:/

[pStyl3]

Which version of TES5Edit do you use? I'm using the pre-release version 3.1.2 of TES5Edit and I can find those 3 proclaimed ITM's!

Removing: AbandonedPrison01 "Abandoned Prison" [CELL:00021594]
Removing: ReachwindEyrie01 "Reachwind Eyrie" [CELL:000399D1]
Removing: FortNeugrad02 "Fort Neugrad Prison" [CELL:0001CE8A]

Edited September 19, 2015 by pStyl3

[kranazoli]

Which version of TES5Edit do you use? I'm using the pre-release version 3.1.2 of TES5Edit and I can find those 3 proclaimed ITM's!

Removing: AbandonedPrison01 "Abandoned Prison" [CELL:00021594]
Removing: ReachwindEyrie01 "Reachwind Eyrie" [CELL:000399D1]
Removing: FortNeugrad02 "Fort Neugrad Prison" [CELL:0001CE8A]

I guess I have tried that one as well. I'll check it.

 

Checked that again. Test5Edit 3.1.2

 

[00:02] Background Loader: [update.esm] Building reference info.

[00:03] Background Loader: [Dawnguard.esm] Building reference info.

[00:08] Background Loader: [HearthFires.esm] Building reference info.

[00:10] Background Loader: [Dragonborn.esm] Building reference info.

[00:18] Background Loader: [Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp] Building reference info.

[00:18] Background Loader: finished

[00:00] Checking for Errors in [05] Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp

[00:00] All Done!

[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 1219585 Elapsed Time: 00:09

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 389, Removed Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

[undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 389, Undeleted Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

 

Have you tried that version?

Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp

 

 

Checked these ones:

 

[CELL:00021594]

[CELL:000399D1]

[CELL:0001CE8A]

 

On my side they look fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[00:02] Background Loader: [update.esm] Building reference info.

[00:03] Background Loader: [Dawnguard.esm] Building reference info.

[00:08] Background Loader: [HearthFires.esm] Building reference info.

[00:09] Background Loader: [Dragonborn.esm] Building reference info.

[00:17] Background Loader: [Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp] Building reference info.

[00:17] Background Loader: finished

[00:00] Checking for Errors in [05] Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp

[00:00] All Done!

[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 1219585 Elapsed Time: 00:09

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 389, Removed Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

[undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 389, Undeleted Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

 

 

I do not understand. :(

 

How could it be?! It is very strange!

 

EDITED:

 

Could anyone tell me what does this do mean exactly?

Is it good, or bad?...

 

TES5Edit Documentation

 

Main Context Menu

 

"Mark Modified – It will mark the currently selected node and all child nodes as modified. To minimize the chance that XEdit breaks something that it doesn't fully understand when saving, only records that are marked as modified are assembled field by field, sub record by sub record. Any record or even complete group that is not marked as modified is simply copied unchanged as a blob of bytes from the old module file into the newly saved one."

 

https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/TES5Edit_Documentation

 

Sry, do not really got what does it mean. :(

My modding and english knowledge is limited...

 

After I have done all the same ITM cleaning process again nothing changed. Doesn't matter which Tes5Edit I used.

So, nothing changed. And accidently I saw that option at right click menu ---> Mark Modified. I thought, what could happen, if something will be wrong I can reinstall the mod, or revert backup.

 

I was surprised, as I chnaged that option my esp plugin went to bold. Hmmm.... I saved the plugin, inspite of the fact I didn't changed anything. And secondly I was surprised when I saw, the size of the esp file got smaller.

 

Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp          66KB

Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp          63KB (After chosen Mark Modified via Tes5Edit)

 

But, I didn't make anything. As you see above, I have tried to clean those 3 ITM, but nothing happened.

 

After load that smaller, modified plugin again, same the things above, but that time it is kept 63KB.

 

After, I got an esp file I haven't used them yet. Done everything like above. I have chosen Mark Modified and saved that esp file. But the size does not changed.

 

Now, at LOOT I do not get ITM warning for Remove Interior fog plugin. I am not 100% sure it works great, haven't had enough time to test it (with and without).

 

 

So, Dear Skyrim Guru :) what did I made exactly, by accidently?

 

And is it good? Or "harmful", not good, ...

 

ANY(!) support really appreciated.

 

Thank you!

Edited September 20, 2015 by kranazoli

[zilav]

LOOT database is filled with manual user reports, LOOT itself has no idea about the presense and amount of ITM or UDR records. Several things could happened here

1) the original report by someone was wrong but got included into LOOT database without any check by someone

2) new clean version of plugin has been released but LOOT database still contains report for an old version, which again should be removed manually by someone

 

Anything that LOOT shows you is only a hint, not something you should blindly trust and take action. I don't know who exactly posts reports into LOOT database and is there any "quality" control at all. I admit I never read STEP, but this must be clealy stated there for sure.

Edited September 20, 2015 by zilav

[pStyl3]

Remove Interior Fog V2 - Skyrim Nexus Page

 

Screenshots of the 3 ITM's:

- Fort Neugrad Prison

- Reachwind Eyrie

- Abandoned Prison

 

Commit to LOOT's masterlist that added this dirty info:

Link

 

Corresponding post in LOOT's thread:

Post

 

I downloaded a fresh copy of "Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp" (that is, before I wrote my first post regarding this plugin) from the modpage and given that LOOT indeed tells me, that those 3 ITM's are there, I think I do use the 'correct' plugin / version of that plugin; otherwise LOOT wouldn't tell me that it contains 3 ITM's. The CRC value of that plugin is 4FD63CD3 or as LOOT has it stored in it's masterlist 0x4FD63CD3, so this should be the CRC value you see for that plugin in LOOT aswell. If you do not see this CRC value, you are probably not using a fresh and unmodified version of that plugin.

 

As written, I am indeed able to find these 3 ITM's trira posted (see the LOOT thread), so at least two people can find these ITM's, which makes it very likely, that:

- these 3 ITM's are 'correct' and thus

- LOOT's information about those is correct aswell.

 

 

Now. All that said, it is indeed very strange why you don't see those 3 ITM's. You use the most recent version of TES5Edit and seem to be following the correct process to clean them, yet TES5Edit does not find them. So I don't really know why that is happening.

 

What I do see is, that there is a little difference in the number of records TES5Edit processes while loading up "Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp" and it's masters.

 

Your message log: Processed Records: 1219585

My message log: Processed Records: 1219592

 

That is a difference of 7 records. Maybe related to different cleaning results of the official master files? But if that should make a difference .. don't really know.

[kranazoli]

LOOT database is filled with manual user reports, LOOT itself has no idea about the presense and amount of ITM or UDR records. Several things could happened here

1) the original report by someone was wrong but got included into LOOT database without any check by someone

2) new clean version of plugin has been released but LOOT database still contains report for an old version, which again should be removed manually by someone

 

Anything that LOOT shows you is only a hint, not something you should blindly trust and take action. I don't know who exactly posts reports into LOOT database and is there any "quality" control at all. I admit I never read STEP, but this must be clealy stated there for sure.

I guess, you didn't understand what I tried to explain, and question.

Ok, I see maybe masterlist bug, LOOT stuff, bla-bla, ...

 

What I do not understand that what happened with the esp file when I accidently clicked at Mark Modified.

Right Click on an esp file. After that my ESP file size reduced from 66KB -> 63KB

 

But I haven't done anything else than before several times with that esp file.

Clean ITM records process. General ITM cleaning process.

 

+ right click at the .esp file -> Mark Modified and saved.

 

This is what I do not understand, what does it mean:

 

"

"Mark Modified – It will mark the currently selected node and all child nodes as modified. To minimize the chance that XEdit breaks something that it doesn't fully understand when saving, only records that are marked as modified are assembled field by field, sub record by sub record. Any record or even complete group that is not marked as modified is simply copied unchanged as a blob of bytes from the old module file into the newly saved one."

 

https://www.creationk...t_Documentation

 

Sry, do not really got what does it mean. :(

My modding and english knowledge is limited... "

 

I don't know wheter is it good, or not but THIS removed the ITMs warning from LOOT.

If someone could explain that some kind of user friendly, I would be glad.

 

I have never used that before. Now, just accidently.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 20, 2015 by kranazoli

[kranazoli]

Remove Interior Fog V2 - Skyrim Nexus Page

 

Screenshots of the 3 ITM's:

- Fort Neugrad Prison

- Reachwind Eyrie

- Abandoned Prison

 

Commit to LOOT's masterlist that added this dirty info:

Link

 

Corresponding post in LOOT's thread:

Post

 

I downloaded a fresh copy of "Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp" (that is, before I wrote my first post regarding this plugin) from the modpage and given that LOOT indeed tells me, that those 3 ITM's are there, I think I do use the 'correct' plugin / version of that plugin; otherwise LOOT wouldn't tell me that it contains 3 ITM's. The CRC value of that plugin is 4FD63CD3 or as LOOT has it stored in it's masterlist 0x4FD63CD3, so this should be the CRC value you see for that plugin in LOOT aswell. If you do not see this CRC value, you are probably not using a fresh and unmodified version of that plugin.

 

As written, I am indeed able to find these 3 ITM's trira posted (see the LOOT thread), so at least two people can find these ITM's, which makes it very likely, that:

- these 3 ITM's are 'correct' and thus

- LOOT's information about those is correct aswell.

 

 

Now. All that said, it is indeed very strange why you don't see those 3 ITM's. You use the most recent version of TES5Edit and seem to be following the correct process to clean them, yet TES5Edit does not find them. So I don't really know why that is happening.

 

What I do see is, that there is a little difference in the number of records TES5Edit processes while loading up "Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp" and it's masters.

 

Your message log: Processed Records: 1219585

My message log: Processed Records: 1219592

 

That is a difference of 7 records. Maybe related to different cleaning results of the official master files? But if that should make a difference .. don't really know.

Don't really undertood. :/ Sry! :/

I also downloaded again from Nexus. Yes, I saw that records you posted, but whatever I tried I haven't cleaned them.

 

I still do not really know, how did you remove those ITMs?

 

The general ITM cleaning method? As I posted the screens? That process doesn't removed for me nothing. After the last step UDR I could close Tes5Edit and didn't saved anything, because didn't remove anything.

 

I must say, I didn't searched topics and so on...

 

Interesting. Still don't get it...

[kranazoli]

[CELL:00021594]
[CELL:000399D1]
[CELL:0001CE8A]

 

 

 

 

 

But, these are all in Skyrim.esm file. I haven't done anything by manual. :O

You manually searched ITMs, I am LOST!

 

I also have those Blocks as well, now checked it.

But still got it, how did you managed to clean those 3 ITMs.

 

My side always:

 

[00:02] Background Loader: [update.esm] Building reference info.
[00:03] Background Loader: [Dawnguard.esm] Building reference info.
[00:08] Background Loader: [HearthFires.esm] Building reference info.
[00:09] Background Loader: [Dragonborn.esm] Building reference info.
[00:17] Background Loader: [Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp] Building reference info.
[00:17] Background Loader: finished
[00:00] Checking for Errors in [05] Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp
[00:00] All Done!
[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 1219585 Elapsed Time: 00:09
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 389, Removed Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00
[undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 389, Undeleted Records: 0, Elapsed Time: 00:00

 

Nothing to remove. No ITMs.

 

Someone let me know if I get it. :)

 

 

I just chose that, and after LOOT warning has gone away and my .esp file size reduced from 66KB -> 63KB

But, I didn't make anything by manually, or direct. This was just an accident. And I have no idea what does it did?

What does that option make(made)...

 

On your side these lines looked like somehow like that?

 

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 389, Removed Records: 3, Elapsed Time: 00:00
[undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 389, Undeleted Records: 3, Elapsed Time: 00:00

 

That's the point I don't understand.

I have never read topic for cleaning ITMs records. Just 10 sec, and everything worked fine auto.

 

(LOOT topic, GitHub, WHY?!)  :o :O for cleaning ITMs? I have never heard about that.

 

Tes5Edit

Load esp

Apply Filter...

Remove ITMs

UDR

 

Done! Forgot!

Edited September 20, 2015 by kranazoli