DoubleYou Posted July 26, 2023 Posted July 26, 2023 This topic will house compares for different lighting mods as I go through these. The emphasis of this topic will be on lights themselves, their color, any lens flares or other effects, how much light they cast, and if they cast shadows. Mods to included: Fixes and Tweaks by Aurelianis - Multiple fixes, including some lighting changes FPSL - Lighting and Tweaks Performance - Focus is on lights Lightweight Lighting - Changes lights and weather Thaylar's Settlement Lighting Fixes - Changes Settlement Lights Test Shot 1: Reveal hidden contents This is at the Nuka World Transit Center (now a settlement thanks to Tenhats!). Focus in this shot are lights that are NOT powered by electricity, so oil lamps, candles, fires. Also have a few other lights about, such as the spotlights. Comparison set 1: This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar does a nice job of adding more light to the oil lamp post, and reduces the light from the barrel. It also reduces the light from the spotlights. Aurelianis adds a nice lens flare to the spotlights, and increases the range FPSL changes colors, increases the amount of light given, and adds lens flares Lightweight Lighting notably darkens the scene (it is midnight in the compare). Any real changes to the lights themselves are mostly unnoticeable here other than the much increased amount of darkness. Comparison set 2: This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis As a vanilla bug fix, Thaylar then Aurelianis looks good. Adding the same combo over top of Lightweight Lighting improves the spotlights and the oil lamp post Substituting FPSL instead of Thaylar (as Thaylar is altogether overwritten by FPSL), the colors are greatly improved. The larger radius of lighting is very welcome, as the darkness that Lightweight Lighting can be somewhat overbearing at night in a settlement without adequate lighting. Indeed, FPSL looks very much better when combined with Lightweight Lighting in this way. I feel this combo is the winner of this Test Shot. Bear in mind, this is just one scene, and we need to compare many many other sets of lights, and there are a lot of them, both able to be built in the settlement and hand placed in the world. (Do note that the yellow bottle lanterns I forgot to allow to warm up in this shot, which is the only reason they are dark). Of note, the various options that FPSL provides didn't seem to have any real difference between appearance in this scene. It remains to be seen if there is any performance to be found here. I didn't really notice any difference, but I didn't uncap my framerate on these shots to find out if there was any drastic changes (didn't seem likely). Note that there is no ENB used in these shots either. Test Shot 2 Reveal hidden contents This is at the Mechanist's Lair. I have added the floor and table lamps at varying distances. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar makes some of the floor lamps more sensibly lit. Aurelianis just increases the amount of light from some of the lights FPSL adds a very nice gobo to the Construction light. It also adds a lens flare, that is buggy. The yellow table lamp (on the floor left of the construction light) looks bugged. Lightweight Lighting makes everything darker. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + construction light gobo The theme continues to show that Thaylar and Aurelianis are very good bug fixes and Lightweight Lighting makes everything darker. FPSL doesn't fair well here, only the gobo effect on the construction light shows great promise. This is a vanilla gobo texture, so I assigned it to the construction light for the final shot, which I think works the best. Test Shot 3 Reveal hidden contents Still in the Mechanist's Lair, I have added a small amount of wall lights and the ceiling fan. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar increases the light radii, and probably does it too much on the Cage Wall Lamp (3x vanilla), as it is now illuminating the doorway that shouldn't be receiving any light. The Light Fade on the Fancy Lights make them seem rather dull. Aurelianis increases the light radii. No issues. FPSL adds lens flares that are buggy on these lights, as they will pop in and out. The lights are extremely bright, but they don't illuminate much. It adds the vanilla gobo to the Cage Wall Lamp, which is a very nice touch. The color is also shifted on the Cage Wall Lamp to a cooler color. The Fancy Lights now are shadowed, which suits them quite well. Lightweight Lighting darkens everything. The one wall light is now more yellow, which is tasteful. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + custom tweaks The Cage Wall Lamp is still noticeably too bright when using Thaylar then Aurelianis Adding Lightweight Lighting helps the Cage Wall Lamp not look so bad, but now, since everything is dimmer, you notice the low fade values from Thaylar makes the Fancy lights very dull. Replacing Thaylar with FPSL looks decent, but the light range isn't very large. Tweaked version adds the gobo to the cage wall lamp, alters the radius slightly, fixes the too low fade values on the Fancy Lights, and adds shadows to them. Test Shot 4 Reveal hidden contents Still in the Mechanist's Lair, I have added the hospital light from Workshop Rearranged on the left, the HighTech Floor Lights (the colorful ones), the HighTech wall lights (the daylight white lights on the wall), and the hanging lightbulb on the beam. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar makes the HighTech wall lights more muted and the hanging lightbulb incredibly luminescent. Aurelianis cranks up the hanging lightbulb to where it is overpowering the entire scene. FPSL reduces the hanging lightbulb to basically nil, but adds a buggy lens flare, which flashes on and off as you're moving. It reduces the amount of light from the HighTech wall lights and adds shadows. Lightweight Lighting darkens the scene. It also absolutely kills the HighTech Floor Lights to where they are barely able to give off any light. It does this without even editing them. It seems these are activator lights working off a glow map, and Lightweight Lighting's changes are somehow having an overly drastic effect on them. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + custom tweaks Thaylar and Aurelianis both get the hanging lightbulb wrong and make it overpoweringly brighter than any other light. Adding Lightweight Lighting into the mix makes everything more mute, makes the lights seem almost ambient. Overwriting FPSL with Aurelianis fixes the lens flare from the hanging light bulb, but the light is overpowered. Tweaked version resets hanging lightbulb to vanilla. It also adds shadows to the HighTech Wall Lights and adjusts the range slightly. It fixes the bleed issue on Workshop Rearranged's hospital light by removing the shadow light effect from it, and increases the amount of light it gives off. Test Shot 5 Reveal hidden contents Back at the Nuka World Transit Center, I constructed the three street lamps. Aurelianis doesn't touch these. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting I'm not sure why Thaylar made the change he did, but it looks much worse IMHO. He made them non-shadow spotlights, which just seems to make them useless. FPSL changes the color to be cooler and adds omnidirectional shadows. Lightweight Lighting darkens the scene. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar Lightweight Lighting then FPSL Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar + custom tweaks If you're going to make everything darker, then the lights must be strong enough to be able to light things up. Street lights should put out more light then the tabletop lights, yet in the vanilla game and in all these tweaked versions, the Yellow Table Lamp could hold its own against these street lights. I simply reverted to vanilla and doubled the radius. Test Shot 6 Reveal hidden contents Now at Vault 88, I have added the String Lights (the four light bulbs on a string), the Cycling Light (this light is green color here and set to normal brightness... can be modified via terminal), the Mirror Ball Light (disco ball), and the Track Lights. Also added the undamaged ceiling fan light for good measure. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar makes the String Lights too bright. It turns the Track Lights into a non-shadow spotlight, which looks quite good. Aurelianis makes the Mirror Ball Light have a bigger radius. FPSL makes the String and Track Lights have smaller radii. Lightweight Lighting dims the scene. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + custom tweaks Thaylar then Aurelianis still has the String Lights too bright. Adding Lightweight Lighting makes it more believable, despite the brightness issues. FPSL just makes the String and Track lights too dim. Tweaked version reduces the String Light radius, makes the Track Lights a shadow spotlight, and makes the Mirror Ball Light have a retextured gobo for a more colorful disco light effect. I think I will break out the colorful version into a small mod though instead of including in our tweaks.
DoubleYou Posted July 26, 2023 Author Posted July 26, 2023 Test shot 1: Reveal hidden contents This is at the Nuka World Transit Center (now a settlement thanks to Tenhats!). Focus in this shot are lights that are NOT powered by electricity, so oil lamps, candles, fires. Also have a few other lights about, such as the spotlights. Comparison set 1: This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar does a nice job of adding more light to the oil lamp post, and reduces the light from the barrel. It also reduces the light from the spotlights. Aurelianis adds a nice lens flare to the spotlights, and increases the range FPSL changes colors, increases the amount of light given, and adds lens flares Lightweight Lighting notably darkens the scene (it is midnight in the compare). Any real changes to the lights themselves are mostly unnoticeable here other than the much increased amount of darkness. Comparison set 2: This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis As a vanilla bug fix, Thaylar then Aurelianis looks good. Adding the same combo over top of Lightweight Lighting improves the spotlights and the oil lamp post Substituting FPSL instead of Thaylar (as Thaylar is altogether overwritten by FPSL), the colors are greatly improved. The larger radius of lighting is very welcome, as the darkness that Lightweight Lighting can be somewhat overbearing at night in a settlement without adequate lighting. Indeed, FPSL looks very much better when combined with Lightweight Lighting in this way. I feel this combo is the winner of this Test Shot. Bear in mind, this is just one scene, and we need to compare many many other sets of lights, and there are a lot of them, both able to be built in the settlement and hand placed in the world. (Do note that the yellow bottle lanterns I forgot to allow to warm up in this shot, which is the only reason they are dark). Of note, the various options that FPSL provides didn't seem to have any real difference between appearance in this scene. It remains to be seen if there is any performance to be found here. I didn't really notice any difference, but I didn't uncap my framerate on these shots to find out if there was any drastic changes (didn't seem likely). Note that there is no ENB used in these shots either.
z929669 Posted July 26, 2023 Posted July 26, 2023 No FO4 XP here, so considering that for this particular scene ... Best vanilla-friendly lighting fix: Thaylar Best overall aesthetic + fix: Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis ... but that combo is a departure from vanilla. I would call it a fix though, because vanilla, Thaylar, and Aurelians are all waaaay too bright. Unless there is a gigantic, bright moon in the sky, it makes no sense unless it's necessary to have things this bright at night to play the game. I want big differences between day/night in any game, and Bethesda seems to love overly-bright nights and dungeons/caves in all of their games. Meh. If FO4 is known for its extremely saturated look then maybe Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis is a good choice, but it's a huge departure from vanilla, and I think the colors are waaaaay too saturated for my taste. The spotlights are much too cool in contrast with all other lights ... opposite the color wheel almost. Whats with that spotlight at top of stairs? Is it being cast from the post above and off screen? If it's supposed to be coming from that little spotlight pointing away from Nuka-World, then that needs fixing. Sorry for the crappy drawing:
DoubleYou Posted July 26, 2023 Author Posted July 26, 2023 There are two spotlights: the one in your drawing and one pointing downward from the building, so that is why that is looking off. I see what you mean about the saturation. That might not be the best. I do feel though that vanilla Fallout 4 does have a good deal of saturated colors in it (especially Diamond City), so I don't think it is entirely out of line. I feel like it makes sense the difference between the spotlights (electric powered) vs the fire based lights. Remember this is not a natural in-game scene, but instead a bunch of lights I have placed around for testing purposes only. I certainly consider FPSL and Lightweight Lighting to be more in the 18-Lighting and Weather category, versus the other two are more in the Fixes category, so I likely will patch things using the best from all four.
DoubleYou Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 Test Shot 2 Reveal hidden contents This is at the Mechanist's Lair. I have added the floor and table lamps at varying distances. Comparison set 1 This comparison shows the individual mods by themselves. This helps you familiarize yourself where the changes are coming from. Vanilla --> Thaylar --> Aurelianis --> FPSL --> Lightweight Lighting Thaylar makes some of the floor lamps more sensibly lit. Aurelianis just increases the amount of light from some of the lights FPSL adds a very nice gobo to the Construction light. It also adds a lens flare, that is buggy. The yellow table lamp (on the floor left of the construction light) looks bugged. Lightweight Lighting makes everything darker. Comparison set 2 This comparison shows useful combinations (not patched) of the various lighting mods. Vanilla Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then FPSL then Aurelianis Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + construction light gobo The theme continues to show that Thaylar and Aurelianis are very good bug fixes and Lightweight Lighting makes everything darker. FPSL doesn't fair well here, only the gobo effect on the construction light shows great promise. This is a vanilla gobo texture, so I assigned it to the construction light for the final shot, which I think works the best.
z929669 Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 Best vanilla fix: Thaylar and also Aurelianis Best aesthetic/realism: Lightweight Lighting then Thaylar then Aurelianis + construction light gobo ... but this still alcks some of the fixes. I would patch in the lamp-floor effect from FPSL, which seems to be the only contender that catches this. I think the gobo is very nice, but I would have blurred the lines. They would not be so crisp, and the shape of the light really wouldn't be a square with shrp edges either. Still, the last one has the best balance of aesthetic and fixes, IMO.
DoubleYou Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 I didn't check to see if that was a gobo or not. My main thing with that lamp is the way it bleeds makes it look buggy. I do think that a cool lighting mod could be made using these gobos now that I see how they are used.
DoubleYou Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 So I checked, and the yellow wall lamp looks buggy because it is NOT using a gobo effect for the shadows, but instead uses shadows. There must be a seam in the lamps shade that makes it look buggy.
Greg Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 Do you mean the yellow table lamp near front just to the right of center that has a black line down the middle of the lamp and lighting on the floor?
DoubleYou Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 1:18 PM, Greg said: Do you mean the yellow table lamp near front just to the right of center that has a black line down the middle of the lamp and lighting on the floor? Expand Yes. FPSL adds omnidirectional shadow to it, but the way the light is causes it to look bugged.
DoubleYou Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 Added Test Shot 3 to OP. All Test Shots will now go to OP to keep things organized.
DoubleYou Posted July 31, 2023 Author Posted July 31, 2023 Now, there are definitely more lights than I have covered here, but I feel it rather too difficult to be entirely comprehensive, but I feel we have ample evidence to determine acceptance of these mods. I feel that Aurelianis and Thaylar make some good changes, but require some tweaking for a few lights, which I have done. FPSL seems to suffer from QA issues, needs more tweaks then not, makes subjective changes (removes some grass for some reason?), but has some good ideas. Therefore I feel safe in accepting Thaylar (Aurelianis is already accepted) and rejecting FPSL. Lightweight Lighting seemed to work well enough in my playthrough patched with True Storms, and these compares, so I think we can accept it for now, barring future testing against other weather mods. I disagree with the muteness of the HighTech lights, but it's not a huge issue. There are definitely more lighting mods out there that could be tested, but we can start here.
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