Smooth Shores Patches - Merge when asked?

[mooit]

I just want to say again THANKS, and I really mean a big thanks for everyone's help!

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by mooit

[z929669]

10 hours ago, mooit said:

I just want to say again THANKS, and I really mean a big thanks for everyone's help!

 

No worries. If you use the method @Mousetick describes, you get the best of both worlds: metadata and manual/secure. Then the 'merge' action makes sense and allows you to be more efficient.

I think I will be adding a note about this to our System Setup Guide MO section ... a few people may read it, and it gives us something to link to.

---

Just remember that whenever you install a mod into an existing mod, you get the prompt to 'replace' or 'merge'. Replace does just that: all the mod's content is replaced by whatever it is you are installing. Merge replaces only like-named files in the archive (which are ultimately unpacked and placed into the MO ../mods/ folder) and leaves all other files intact (perfect for adding options under a single mod). It is perfectly valid to install into separate mods as you have done, but with this one, they are only plugins and having them under one mod makes sense (MO provides the "Optional ESPs" and "Hide/Unhide" features to enable/disable single plugins/files inside a mod in the left pane.)

[TechAngel85]

13 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Count me in as one of the folks who doesn't download Nexus mods via MO2 

Mainly for security reasons.

This topic was an interesting read, but this comment is the only one that really peaked my interest. I'm very curious what security reason you have for manual vs using the mod manager? As an IT guy at heart, that isn't making any sense to me unless your VPN will not work with the feature. If it's for malware, well, your computer should be scanning anything that it's downloading so whether that is in Downloads or in the MO folder, the files should be scanned the same.

Very curious!  (our thinking face looks angry...)

[z929669]

2 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

This topic was an interesting read, but this comment is the only one that really peaked my interest. I'm very curious what security reason you have for manual vs using the mod manager? As an IT guy at heart, that isn't making any sense to me unless your VPN will not work with the feature. If it's for malware, well, your computer should be scanning anything that it's downloading so whether that is in Downloads or in the MO folder, the files should be scanned the same.

Very curious!  (our thinking face looks angry...)

Ditto. As I understand it, connecting MO to Nexus API and querying info invokes the same exchange ... perhaps hijacking is the issue from the Nexus page itself.

I rely on the law of large numbers with respect to this sort of exposure. Overly-zealous security consciousness (my subjective POV) is a real hindrance for me getting things done.

[Mousetick]

2 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

Very curious!

Don't get too excited, this is pretty boring stuff 

The thing is, I actually don't use any antivirus/malware/security software (except firewalls and ad-blockers which I do use). I find they're more trouble than they're worth, they're horrible intrusive hacks similar to the malware they're supposed to protect against, they tend to slow down everything and cause all kinds of compatibility issues. I briefly tried MS Defender when Windows 10 came out and quickly disabled it.

I rely on my own set of security "policies" and frequent + comprehensive backups which have served me well and kept me safe for ~30 years of Windows computing (knocking on wood).

One of these policies is to not let any software handle custom protocols off the browser as this mechanism is easily and commonly hijacked by malware.

I'll admit this is borderline overly-zealous, to borrow Z's words.

In my case it doesn't hinder me, as I like to take a look at the archives' contents and I often rename the archive files (many of them are very poorly named by the MAs) inside my browser's downloads folder, before moving them to MO2's downloads folder. It's easier for me to do all this from Windows Explorer, rather than switching back and forth between MO2 and Explorer. I think MO's Downloads tab interface is very poor and cumbersome to use.

I have an IT background too. I can't stand the babysitting of security software and having to exclude a bunch of apps and folders all the time just to get trivial work done. I know what I'm doing, I don't need this kind of 'protection' - thank you very much.

To anyone else reading this: don't follow my example, it's not helpful. Please use security software.

[mooit]

I also have an IT background, but I've lived mainly in the Linux world with it.

I like to express myself to others, with an understanding, that, while we all have our own ideas/likes, dislikes, etc., it's very importance to emphasize, how we should be looking at this, meaning, a point I was trying to express earlier but didn't do so well.

What this really gets down to are personal preferences, some like software to do the work and automate for them, some like to get their hands on, and do things manually.

If there is certainly no point or purpose to manually doing something, then, rhetorically speaking of, why bother. So again, it's all just going to depend on how someone looks at something.

BUT, one of the most important things to always consider/remember, if you really want to learn, then you need to get involved, because always allowing the software to do the job, with no understanding of what is going on, sooner or later can cause you problems, meaning software has bugs, and sooner or later you run into them and face problems, software and hardware aren't perfect.

Most Windows and Apple users do things automated, it's just the mentality of these particular systems, the way they are designed, and how they are marketed to the end-users. Rarely do you find a vast large number of Windows users tinkering all the time, hacking on their system, software, hardware, etc...

But, in the Unix/LInux world of the end-users that are out there, this is different, a larger number of them, are tinkering on their systems, because it's that type of world. Granted, as I like to put it, jokingly, there are the Ubuntu users of the world, that don't care to do much, and do pretty much everything automated.

So for me personally, I've always been an extreme hands on Linux Geek, Slackware, is my weapon of choice for an OS, rock solid, bullet proof.

The thing I can tell you, on both sides of the fence, Windows, Linux or otherwise, those that let the systems do most of the work, are typically the ones, that run into problems all the time, after all, when was the last time, out there in the PC Gaming world, that you never saw anyone having problems?

In PC Gaming, people are always having problems, and they never end, and they have problems, because the vast majority of them, as I call it are Drivers, not Mechanics of their PCs, and if you ever want the most hassle free life in the computer world, you'll need to get under the hood at some point, otherwise, be prepared for a world of issues.

Of course your mileage may vary as we all know, when it comes to issues, so I'm not talking about those, that only sit around and surf the web, check email and watch some youtube, I'm talking about those that do a lot on their computers.

Bottom Line, if I can do things, I do them, I never let software do a job I can do, unless it's just a complete waste of time, and there's nothing to be gained. But in MO2, doing things manually, I believe helps you to have a better understanding of what is going on with the mods, and the whole modding process involved in it.

P.S. On the note of security, hmm, interesting topic, security should always be a concern in everything we do, but is there really any issues here with MO2 automating the work for you, I don't know.

[mooit]

9 hours ago, z929669 said:

No worries. If you use the method @Mousetick describes, you get the best of both worlds: metadata and manual/secure. Then the 'merge' action makes sense and allows you to be more efficient.

I think I will be adding a note about this to our System Setup Guide MO section ... a few people may read it, and it gives us something to link to.

---

Just remember that whenever you install a mod into an existing mod, you get the prompt to 'replace' or 'merge'. Replace does just that: all the mod's content is replaced by whatever it is you are installing. Merge replaces only like-named files in the archive (which are ultimately unpacked and placed into the MO ../mods/ folder) and leaves all other files intact (perfect for adding options under a single mod). It is perfectly valid to install into separate mods as you have done, but with this one, they are only plugins and having them under one mod makes sense (MO provides the "Optional ESPs" and "Hide/Unhide" features to enable/disable single plugins/files inside a mod in the left pane.)

Sorry I don't understand, 'the method' by Mousetick? 

[DoubleYou]

56 minutes ago, mooit said:

Sorry I don't understand, 'the method' by Mousetick? 

The method of manually downloading, then Query Info on the download to fetch the metadata.

[mooit]

34 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

The method of manually downloading, then Query Info on the download to fetch the metadata.

I've never connected to my nexus account with MO2, it's always offline, so I'm not fetching any of the metadata.

THANKS

Edited June 28, 2022 by mooit

[Mousetick]

1 hour ago, mooit said:

On the note of security, hmm, interesting topic, security should always be a concern in everything we do, but is there really any issues here with MO2 automating the work for you, I don't know.

As a general principle, allowing the web browser to run external programs outside of its sandbox is a security risk. This is what happens when MO2 is configured for Nexus "Mod Manager Download" integration: you click on a "Mod Manager Download" link on Nexus in your web browser, the browser launches MO2 (or activates it if it's already running) and hands it the URL to process, then MO2 handles the download from Nexus servers using a custom 'protocol'.

You need to trust that all 4 components are secure:

• The Nexus site may be bugged or compromised.
• MO2 may be bugged or compromised.
• The configuration that associates Nexus links with MO2 on your machine may be compromised.
• The custom 'protocol' may be bugged or may contain holes that can be exploited.

You can use security software that constantly monitors some of these components' state and activity on your machine to potentially detect and stop abnormal behavior. That's one way of reducing the risks.

Or you can prevent the web browser from running external programs (which implies manual download from Nexus web site). This doesn't eliminate the need to use security software altogether, as this addresses only one security area, and there are many many others remaining to be covered.

Each has pros and cons. Typically, the higher the security, the less convenience or vice versa.

[mooit]

Sorry for my poor response on security, I should of said what I was thinking.

The, 'I don't know' part, is, I don't know if there are any known issues at present.

I personally understand everything you just mentioned, as I have an IT background I mentioned earlier.

I personally take the Unix mentality of KISS, that's why I do things manually, to stay away from any and all issues, bugs, or security, etc...

Edited June 29, 2022 by mooit

[z929669]

5 hours ago, mooit said:

I also have an IT background, but I've lived mainly in the Linux world with it.

I like to express myself to others, with an understanding, that, while we all have our own ideas/likes, dislikes, etc., it's very importance to emphasize, how we should be looking at this, meaning, a point I was trying to express earlier but didn't do so well.

What this really gets down to are personal preferences, some like software to do the work and automate for them, some like to get their hands on, and do things manually.

If there is certainly no point or purpose to manually doing something, then, rhetorically speaking of, why bother. So again, it's all just going to depend on how someone looks at something.

BUT, one of the most important things to always consider/remember, if you really want to learn, then you need to get involved, because always allowing the software to do the job, with no understanding of what is going on, sooner or later can cause you problems, meaning software has bugs, and sooner or later you run into them and face problems, software and hardware aren't perfect.

Most Windows and Apple users do things automated, it's just the mentality of these particular systems, the way they are designed, and how they are marketed to the end-users. Rarely do you find a vast large number of Windows users tinkering all the time, hacking on their system, software, hardware, etc...

But, in the Unix/LInux world of the end-users that are out there, this is different, a larger number of them, are tinkering on their systems, because it's that type of world. Granted, as I like to put it, jokingly, there are the Ubuntu users of the world, that don't care to do much, and do pretty much everything automated.

So for me personally, I've always been an extreme hands on Linux Geek, Slackware, is my weapon of choice for an OS, rock solid, bullet proof.

The thing I can tell you, on both sides of the fence, Windows, Linux or otherwise, those that let the systems do most of the work, are typically the ones, that run into problems all the time, after all, when was the last time, out there in the PC Gaming world, that you never saw anyone having problems?

In PC Gaming, people are always having problems, and they never end, and they have problems, because the vast majority of them, as I call it are Drivers, not Mechanics of their PCs, and if you ever want the most hassle free life in the computer world, you'll need to get under the hood at some point, otherwise, be prepared for a world of issues.

Of course your mileage may vary as we all know, when it comes to issues, so I'm not talking about those, that only sit around and surf the web, check email and watch some youtube, I'm talking about those that do a lot on their computers.

Bottom Line, if I can do things, I do them, I never let software do a job I can do, unless it's just a complete waste of time, and there's nothing to be gained. But in MO2, doing things manually, I believe helps you to have a better understanding of what is going on with the mods, and the whole modding process involved in it.

P.S. On the note of security, hmm, interesting topic, security should always be a concern in everything we do, but is there really any issues here with MO2 automating the work for you, I don't know.

I love Linux for the same reasons. My first bout was Fedora, and then I built Gentoo up from a minimal base. I've also tried OpenBSD and Linux Mint (which is a nice alternative to Ubuntu flavors). I even tried building a Linux router once (never finished). All of it was just fun to mess with and learn. I prefer non-Debian. Never ran Slackware. Over the past 10 years, it has been strictly CentOS, which is where I basically live now. I have CentOS 8 running my Plex server using my old Intel i5-760 box. I also maintain this website on CentOS 7 in the cloud. It's always fun to get things working how you want on a Linux box, and I quite like server-ops stuff.

That said, I appreciate well-orchestrated software and ease of use for my gaming/every-day productivity OS (Windows).

[mooit]

35 minutes ago, z929669 said:

I love Linux for the same reasons. My first bout was Fedora, and then I built Gentoo up from a minimal base. I've also tried OpenBSD and Linux Mint (which is a nice alternative to Ubuntu flavors). I even tried building a Linux router once (never finished). All of it was just fun to mess with and learn. I prefer non-Debian. Never ran Slackware. Over the past 10 years, it has been strictly CentOS, which is where I basically live now. I have CentOS 8 running my Plex server using my old Intel i5-760 box. I also maintain this website on CentOS 7 in the cloud. It's always fun to get things working how you want on a Linux box, and I quite like server-ops stuff.

That said, I appreciate well-orchestrated software and ease of use for my gaming/every-day productivity OS (Windows).

Nice, thanks for sharing!

TUX ROCKS! LOL

P.S. I only game in Windows LOL...

I just built a new box; Asus Rog B550F-Gaming mobo, Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA FTW Ultra 3080, dual boot, Win11 & Slackware 15.0, now all my gaming emulators in Linux, like Dolphin should fly with a 3080... LOL

I use game emulators only in Linux...

Edited June 29, 2022 by mooit