DROPPED Viewable Faction Ranks (by Reath1)

[Mousetick]

Never encountered this issue. This mod doesn't change the state of quests, it only reads them - it's completely safe. Don't overreact and remove the mod from your load order just because someone reports a "bug".

It's probably another mod that's changing the Thaneship quests. It's not GDO or RDO because these mods only alter dialogue. They actually check the same conditions for Thaneship as this mod, so they should be "broken" in the same way as this mod, in that guards would greet the player as a Thane for example, and so on.

Since it appears to be a relatively recent issue, it could be related to AE CC content. Favor25x is the quest where the player needs to purchase a house in the hold, the last step before being titled Thane.

Edit: So GDO is actually not broken because it checks more conditions than just the state of Favor25x to determine Thaneship. This mod needs to replicate the same tests GDO is using.

[Mousetick]

@CorneliusC Did you buy any of the new player homes added by AE CC content before you noticed the issue, by any chance?

[CorneliusC]

7 hours ago, Mousetick said:

@CorneliusC Did you buy any of the new player homes added by AE CC content before you noticed the issue, by any chance?

I cannot recall when the issue starts, i don't look that much at the mod, especially not early in game, while the statistics are nice to have, they are somewhat inconveniently listed within the MCM. I actually hoped i could exchange this mod with 'Skyrim Character Sheet', which sadly is not updated yet.

It would be interesting to know if this starts to list the character as Thane when first discovering Whiterun, the very first situation where this counts. I only noticed after visiting the second town/settlement and after my character already being named Thane of Whiterun. In both the last two games i purchased Tundra Homestead (CC) quite early, but i think after the character being named Thane. (I may check later if there are early saves to corroborate this).

[Mousetick]

39 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

It would be interesting to know if this starts to list the character as Thane when first discovering Whiterun, the very first situation where this counts.

It doesn't matter if you have discovered Whiterun (the city) or ever visited it before. Viewable Faction Ranks only checks if you have completed the "Purchase a property in the hold" quest, which in vanilla is the last step in the series of quests required to become Thane of the hold.

I'm speculating that the player homes from CC automatically and silently complete that quest (makes sense otherwise you'd be forced to buy another home), independently of, and out of order with, the Thaneship quest chain.

I don't have the AE CC content, so I can't check myself, but it should be easy to test:

1. Start new game.
2. Check if you are Thane of Whiterun in the Viewable Faction Ranks MCM.
3. Give yourself 10000 gold in the console: player.additem f 10000
4. Buy Tundra Homestead.
5. Check if you are Thane of Whiterun in the Viewable Faction Ranks MCM.

It doesn't mean you are actually Thane, it's just this mod which is giving wrong status.

[CorneliusC]

43 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

• Start new game.
• Check if you are Thane of Whiterun in the Viewable Faction Ranks MCM.
• Give yourself 10000 gold in the console: player.additem f 10000
• Buy Tundra Homestead.
• Check if you are Thane of Whiterun in the Viewable Faction Ranks MCM.

I just did a quick check of the these two assumptions of ours ('Discovery of the town/hold', 'Purchase of a property') with an early level 4 save of mine, character just arrived outside Whiterun (Main Quest: Before the Storm), just discovered Tundra Homestead and the surrounding farms, not even discovered Whiterun. All three windows/ status pages of the mod's MCM are blank, with no information.

After discovering Whiterun; no change in the mod's MCM pages (no thaneship status).

Adding 10000 septims to the character's inventory, buying and visiting (thereby finishing the quest) Tundra Homestead; no change in the mod's MCM pages (no thaneship status).

[Mousetick]

8 hours ago, CorneliusC said:

I just did a quick check of the these two assumptions of ours

Ok, thanks for checking. Coincidentally, Whiterun is a special case: if Balgruf is the Jarl, the player doesn't need to purchase a house. In that case, the player is granted the Thane title at the completion of the Dragon Rising main quest.

These are the conditions that this mod uses to check Thaneship in each hold:

FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail >= 1 OR
FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail >= 1 OR
Favor25x.IsStageDone(25) OR
Favor25x.IsStageDone(200)

These are the conditions that GDO uses to check Thaneship in each hold:

(FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail > 0 OR FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail > 0) AND
Favor25x.GetStage = 200

GDO has a special case for Whiterun:

(FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail > 0 OR FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail > 0) AND
IsQuestCompleted(MQ104 "Dragon Rising") = true

In the discussion about the bug on Nexus, the OP shows the stage for his Favor252 (Thane of Haafingar) and Favor254 (Thane of Eastmarch) is 200. 200 is the last stage of the "Become a Thane" quests, at that point the player is a Thane.

I don't know how far advanced you are in your game, are you still a fake Thane of Whiterun, or have you become a real Thane by now? If you're still fake, you could try this command in the console:

getstage favor253

(it's safe, it does not modify anything, it just reads the state of the quest)

[z929669]

4 hours ago, Mousetick said:

Ok, thanks for checking. Coincidentally, Whiterun is a special case: if Balgruf is the Jarl, the player doesn't need to purchase a house. In that case, the player is granted the Thane title at the completion of the Dragon Rising main quest.

These are the conditions that this mod uses to check Thaneship in each hold:

FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail >= 1 OR
FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail >= 1 OR
Favor25x.IsStageDone(25) OR
Favor25x.IsStageDone(200)

These are the conditions that GDO uses to check Thaneship in each hold:

(FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail > 0 OR FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail > 0) AND
Favor25x.GetStage = 200

GDO has a special case for Whiterun:

(FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail > 0 OR FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail > 0) AND
IsQuestCompleted(MQ104 "Dragon Rising") = true

In the discussion about the bug on Nexus, the OP shows the stage for his Favor252 (Thane of Haafingar) and Favor254 (Thane of Eastmarch) is 200. 200 is the last stage of the "Become a Thane" quests, at that point the player is a Thane.

I don't know how far advanced you are in your game, are you still a fake Thane of Whiterun, or have you become a real Thane by now? If you're still fake, you could try this command in the console:

getstage favor253

(it's safe, it does not modify anything, it just reads the state of the quest)

You should report this to the MA. The GDO conditions are more specific (and more efficient with the nesting). It seems this MA is treating all of those conditions as equal, but the FavorJarlScript.Hold*GetOutofJail conditions would seem to be prerequisites (according to GDO MA), and Favor25x.IsStageDone would seem to be significant indicator based on the former.

I don't know what '25' means, but perhaps this is more correct:

( FavorJarlScript.HoldImpGetOutofJail > 0 OR FavorJarlScript.HoldSonsGetOutofJail > 0 ) AND
( Favor25x.IsStageDone(25) OR Favor25x.IsStageDone(200) )

EDIT: Nice work elucidating this, BTW

[CorneliusC]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:33 AM, CorneliusC said:

It would be interesting to know if this starts to list the character as Thane when first discovering Whiterun, the very first situation where this counts. I only noticed after visiting the second town/settlement and after my character already being named Thane of Whiterun

Just to add to this from going through my early save games:

This 'bug' doesn't happen with Thaneship of Whiterun at all, i believe this is explained with Whiterun Thaneship being also tied to the quest 'Dragon Rising', and the character is being listed as Thane of Whiterun correctly after completing said quest.

First inconsistency happening for my character is at level 9, even before the quest 'Dragon Rising', with the mod's MCM listing the character as Thane of Falkreath, without the character even having visited Falkreath at this point. I checked here with the mentioned console command, but for Falkreath: 'getstage favor258' with the result of 'GetStage >> 200.00', reading the quest as completed.

[Mousetick]

This is the only condition that Skyrim Character Sheet checks:

Favor25x.IsStageDone(25) = true

(there are also special cases for Whiterun and Windhelm)

18 hours ago, z929669 said:

I don't know what '25' means

25 is the quest stage preceding the last one, 200. At stage 25, the player has officially been titled Thane, been given a reward and housecarl. The quest then moves on to stage 200, which does nothing interesting but performs some cleanup.

8 hours ago, CorneliusC said:

I checked here with the mentioned console command, but for Falkreath: 'getstage favor258' with the result of 'GetStage >> 200.00', reading the quest as completed.

Then we can see why this mod thinks you're Thane of Falkreath.

This mod was updated last August, and the Changelog says:

Quote

Minor change to Thane checks to make sure they display if you're Thane

Looks like whatever change was made was incorrect. The MA needs to use same conditions as GDO or Skyrim Character Sheet - I've no idea which is more "correct".

More details if you're curious. After looking at the quests and scripts some more, 200 is a normal 'end state' for the quest, which doesn't imply that the player has actually become Thane. The Favor25x quest is a repeatable, restartable quest. Every time the player changes locations and enters a new hold, Favor25x for that hold is (re-)started. A timer is also started. If the player leaves the hold without having talked to the Jarl to actually get quest objectives, and the timer runs out, the quest is moved to stage 200. I have no idea why it is done that way - the "Become a Thane" quest chain is an interconnected, messy web of quests (perform favor for Jarl, become friends with people in the hold, purchase property in the hold).

So if you're worried about your Falkreath Thaneship quest being broken, I don't think that's the case. You should be able to complete it and the others normally. Even though you never visited Falkreath (the town) you likely entered the hold at some point. In fact you could verify that easily by entering the Falkreath hold and checking the quest stage in the console, it should be 0.

[Mousetick]

I was able to verify the quest behavior and reproduce the issue on a new game in a few minutes. Walked back and forth between Whiterun and Falkreath holds, and magically became 'Thane' of both Falkreath and Whiterun (in this mod's MCM).

Spoiler

Walk from Falkreath hold to Whiterun hold:
- Favor253 starts at stage 0
Walk back from Whiterun hold to Falkreath hold:
- Favor258 starts at stage 0
- After a while, Favor253 stops at stage 200
Walk back to Falkreath hold to Whiterun hold:
- Favor253 restarts at stage 0
- After a while, Favor258 stops at stage 200
and so on and so forth...

[CorneliusC]

Thank you, Mousetick for the comprehensive research and thank you, z929669 for linking this thread to the mod's page posts' section. The author also responded, confirmed that their last addition of checking for stage 200 is responsible and wants to check and fix the script ...

Edited December 19, 2022 by CorneliusC

[Chromana]

Viewable Fraction Ranks has put out version 1.1.11 which apparently fixes the Thane status bug. I know this mod has been removed for STEP v2.2.0 in favour of Skyrim Character Sheet but thought I'd point this out.

I have not tested it and have no vested interest in either mod.

Quote

Version 1.1.11

• • Added text that displays if the player hasn't joined any factions or become a Thane/Champion yet
  • Added a little counter for each page
  • Fixed Thane checking

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Chromana

[kabepo]

The STEP Note for this mod is incorrect in two different ways.

Quote

NOTE: This mod has a reporting issue with respect to making the PC a member of the respective thane faction upon discovering the corresponding settlement/town, even if the respective quests are not completed. See the forum link for more details.

1. From reading the discussion above the mod does NOT make PC a member of the respective thane faction - an older version of the mod incorrectly reported faction info, but did not change faction memberships.

2. The STEP note refers to mod version 1.1.10, and is now out of date. Viewable Faction Ranks version 1.1.11 fixes the Thane checking problem.

No further problems have been reported on the mod's Posts page, after the 1.1.11 release, so I would assume it is safe to add the mod back into the STEP Guide. I liked having access to the Faction, Thane and Champion info this mod provides.

[CorneliusC]

6 hours ago, kabepo said:

No further problems have been reported on the mod's Posts page, after the 1.1.11 release, so I would assume it is safe to add the mod back into the STEP Guide. I liked having access to the Faction, Thane and Champion info this mod provides.

Maybe you'd like to consider using 'Skyrim Character Sheet', which provides also faction information and more in a custom, SKSE-configurable ingame window.

[kabepo]

Quote

Maybe you'd like to consider using 'Skyrim Character Sheet'

Yes, Thanks. I'd not seen that mod yet, since I'm still using STEP Guide 1.0.0. I'll install the mod when I upgrade my STEP profile.