Specifics on Merge and Bashed Patches

[Reytag]

I have followed most of the guide, watched many video tutorials and read many articles on merge and bashed patches yet still have a few questions.

 

One of the reasons for this is a lack of consensus on what is the correct method and another is that many videos do not pertain to Fallout 3 specifically, many bashed patch videos for exampled are for Skyrim and not being an expert I do not know for sure whether or not the steps for one game are exactly the same as another, it could be either way.

 

My reason for unfortunately wanting (well, needing) to complicate my life is that the "general consensus" is that it is best to use both types of patches although one or the other "would do".

Me being me I strive for perfection even if it isn't needed.

 

What I have been able to find out is that first one creates a merge patch in F03Edit and remove the leveled lists from it.

 

Next you create a bashed patch, this is where the confusion starts as most articles seem to approach this as though its only the bashed patch being created, not that a merge patch was created beforehand, or, I have to at least assume this as none of them ever state whether a merge patch was created before or not.

 

What I want to do is therefore create a bashed patch the proper way but taking into consideration that the merge patch was created first.

Additionally, I do NOT want to merge plugins in Wrye Flash.  Why, because it requires disabling said plugins in the mod manager and while testing this is irritating as you have to keep track of why they are unchecked, was it because they are now merged or because you simply have disabled them for various testing scenarios.

I also never plan on having so many mods that I reach the Fallout 3 limit where plugin merging would be required.

 

Now on to the main questions, taking the above into account.

 

1. I assume when creating the bash patch that the merge patch plugin should be checked and enabled in the load order and therefore included in the bashed patch, or not, I saw this once somewhere, just wanting to confirm.

 

2. Which items need to be selected in the left and right panes.  What doesn't help here is that your guide, other articles and videos do not have a general consensus on which should be checked or not, everyone "does it a little different" and nobody states whether a merge patch has been created beforehand or not (in the case of your guide I am almost 100% positive you are only creating a bashed patch).

Do I follow your guides list of "check all except the few listed" regardless of whether a merge patch exists or not or do I have to leave additional categories unchecked?

One video guide mentioned, "as long as there are entries on the right pane, check all those as well as the box on the left pane for which category they fall under".

I have noticed that Wrye Flash will show on the right plugins that you do not actually have enabled in the mod manager anyway.

Common sense would tell me that those should of course be disregarded completely and if those are the only plugins in a certain category then that category on the left would remain unchecked, is that correct?

 

3.  I assume the "Merge Patches" box is not required since I am choosing not to merge and this box in the left pane is only required for that purpose.

 

4.  If no plugins are actually listed on the right would one not leave that category unchecked also on the left?

 

I really did look several days for the answers to the above without any luck, maybe they are too specific and in general nobody cares, am I being too exact?

 

Nonetheless, if you could shine some light and answer a few of the above questions that would be great and enable me to mod my game in as precise a manner as possible.

 

Thank you, especially for having taken the time to write your guide for the benefit of the community in the first place.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Reytag

[Kelmych]

I have followed most of the guide, watched many video tutorials and read many articles on merge and bashed patches yet still have a few questions.

 

One of the reasons for this is a lack of consensus on what is the correct method and another is that many videos do not pertain to Fallout 3 specifically, many bashed patch videos for exampled are for Skyrim and not being an expert I do not know for sure whether or not the steps for one game are exactly the same as another, it could be either way.

Wrye Bash and Wrye Flash work the same way and the videos apply to both. There are only a few small differences, and these are primarily in the list of "bash tags" each supports.

 

My reason for unfortunately wanting (well, needing) to complicate my life is that the "general consensus" is that it is best to use both types of patches although one or the other "would do".

I have no idea what you mean here by both types of patches; see comment at bottom.

 

Me being me I strive for perfection even if it isn't needed.

 

What I have been able to find out is that first one creates a merge patch in F03Edit and remove the leveled lists from it.

The FO3Edit training manual describes creating a "Merged Patch" using a combination of FO3Edit filtering and manual conflict resolution; typically many of these would need to be created. These techniques can be used to create compatibility patches. Most users start with the automated capabilities of Wyre Bash/Flash since it handles a large part of what otherwise needs to be done manually. Additional compatibility patches can be created manually using FO3Edit to handle what the bashed patch was unable to handle. These patches can be built so they can be loaded before the bashed patch and merged by Wyre Flash (usually bash tags need to be added to support this), or they can be loaded after the bashed patch if they have resolved all the conflicts (including the levelled lists) for all the plugins they handle. The patches in the "Wasteland Patch Collection" included in the guide are such patches.

 

Next you create a bashed patch, this is where the confusion starts as most articles seem to approach this as though its only the bashed patch being created, not that a merge patch was created beforehand, or, I have to at least assume this as none of them ever state whether a merge patch was created before or not.

See comment at bottom of response. Wrye Flash only creates a bashed patch.

 

What I want to do is therefore create a bashed patch the proper way but taking into consideration that the merge patch was created first.

Additionally, I do NOT want to merge plugins in Wrye Flash.  Why, because it requires disabling said plugins in the mod manager and while testing this is irritating as you have to keep track of why they are unchecked, was it because they are now merged or because you simply have disabled them for various testing scenarios.

I also never plan on having so many mods that I reach the Fallout 3 limit where plugin merging would be required.

 

Now on to the main questions, taking the above into account.

 

1. I assume when creating the bash patch that the merge patch plugin should be checked and enabled in the load order and therefore included in the bashed patch, or not, I saw this once somewhere, just wanting to confirm.

See comment at bottom. There is no "merge patch plugin".

 

2. Which items need to be selected in the left and right panes.  What doesn't help here is that your guide, other articles and videos do not have a general consensus on which should be checked or not, everyone "does it a little different" and nobody states whether a merge patch has been created beforehand or not (in the case of your guide I am almost 100% positive you are only creating a bashed patch).

Do I follow your guides list of "check all except the few listed" regardless of whether a merge patch exists or not or do I have to leave additional categories unchecked?

The other categories are not affected by whether Merge Plugins is checked. They are typically used to tell Wrye Flash what kinds of objects it should evaluate when providing automated conflict resolution.

 

One video guide mentioned, "as long as there are entries on the right pane, check all those as well as the box on the left pane for which category they fall under".

This isn't always true. The guide would note such situations if they occurred.

 

I have noticed that Wrye Flash will show on the right plugins that you do not actually have enabled in the mod manager anyway.

Common sense would tell me that those should of course be disregarded completely and if those are the only plugins in a certain category then that category on the left would remain unchecked, is that correct?

No. Wrye Bash is a full mod manager that can be used instead of Mod Manager. Part of this capability allows enabling/disabling plugins. STEP used Mod Organizer instead for most purposes since its ability to support multiple sets of mod configurations (called profiles) is extremely useful.

 

3.  I assume the "Merge Patches" box is not required since I am choosing not to merge and this box in the left pane is only required for that purpose.

Yes

 

4.  If no plugins are actually listed on the right would one not leave that category unchecked also on the left?

I would leave it checked in case plugins are later added that will be merged

 

I really did look several days for the answers to the above without any luck, maybe they are too specific and in general nobody cares, am I being too exact?

The Wrye Flash GUI is described briefly in the "What Symbols & Colours Mean" section of the Wyre Bash General Readme. The "Creating a Bashed Patch" subsection of the guide has pointers to the two Wyre Bash Readme pages.

 

Nonetheless, if you could shine some light and answer a few of the above questions that would be great and enable me to mod my game in as precise a manner as possible.

 

Thank you, especially for having taken the time to write your guide for the benefit of the community in the first place.

I have a question before I can answer several of your questions. You use the term "Merge Patch" as if there were a mod or plugin that is identified as a "Merge Patch". I am not aware of any use of this term by Wrye Flash or Mod Organizer. What do you mean by the term? Wrye Flash does not create a separate "merge patch". When it merges compatibility patches they are included in the bashed patch.

 

Wrye Flash uses the term "Merge Patches" where "Merge" is a verb. This feature allows merging multiple "compatibility patches" into the bashed patch. I understand your reasoning for not wanting to use it, but the benefits are significant. Plugin count is limited in Bethesda games and it helps to reduce the number of plugins needed. In Wrye Flash any plugin that can be merged is shown in green. If the compatibility plugin is merged there is a "+" sign in the box for the plugin. If you don't wan't to use the "Merge Plugins" feature uncheck this box.

[Reytag]

Thanks for the detailed reply, for clarification where I say "Merge Patch" I mean "Merged Patch" as created by F03Edit when leaving all plugins selected, hitting ok and then after it loads right click on left pane, go to "other" menu and then click "create merged patch".  I then name the resulting merged patch and it appears as a plugin which is then put at the bottom of the load order (typically).

 

Therefore by "both types of patches" I mean both the "Merged Patch" created in FO3Edit and the "Bashed Patch" created in Wrye Flash.

 

You actually mention the Merged Patch from FO3Edit right after your bashed Patch section, sorry, I missed the "d" from "Merge(d)" which caused the confusion.

 

It has been mentioned in several places throughout my readings that one can create a Merged Patch and a Bashed Patch and use them together as a "superior" solution to just one or the other.

 

Maybe that will clear things up and influence some text above?

 

I am using FOMM as my mod manager.

[Kelmych]

You can create manual patches and the FO3Edit tools used to help build a merged patch can be helpful when building manual patches. I suggest only using manual patches after creating a bashed patch and using FO3Edit to see what is missing. A Merged Patch that doesn't provide conflict resolution is a lot less useful than a bashed patch, so you will not see Merged Patches recommended often on the STEP site.

[Reytag]

 

Thanks Kelmych for all the input and once again for your guide, much appreciated.