TechAngel85

Either process: A) Add DLCs as mods or B) Add USPs to data ...if automated via plugin, are both viable options that are identical in the result. In A, the DLCs are taken from data and thus alters the data folder. In B, the USPs are added to data and thus alters the data folder. Both fix the issue. Both, if automated, requires no user intervention. Both have the potential to confuse the user as to "why" this is happening (the STEP guide would explain the "why" but what about users that do not use the STEP guide?) I really see these options being different but yet equal solutions with the same result regardless of which is used.

Wait! I think I had a brain fart... WB will use the Wizard and not the FOMOD. :facepalm:

Didn't try it with the external installer; however, there is no need to use it so I wouldn't want to instruct users to do that for no reason. It doesn't seem to be working with the internal installer as I tested with Requiem installed and not installed...exactly the same result. The first is selected no matter what. Do you know if this is different for WB users? If it is, I'll leave it. If not, I'm just going to take it out since it isn't working. EDIT: Neither yours or mine FOMOD will run on the external installer (unless I'm doing something wrong). No matter, it doesn't need the external installer.

Not working... your version just installed 8 different ESP files, a ton a string files and installed the 000 Core folder rather than the core textures... I haven't looked at the code yet. Did you even test it? EDIT: yeah...I think I'll stick with my version, but I will convert it back to the BAIN file structure. It's working and your rework is ever longer than the original. They would probably accomplish the same thing in the end but mine seems to be more stable at the moment. I guarantee that it will work with all possible install options. I see what you did with the dependencies. I wasn't too sure on how those worked and I knew MO has had trouble with it in the past so I just steered clear of those and made it a bit more basic which ironically resulted in a few less lines than all those dependencies. I could play around with it to see if I could get it to work probably if I could understand how those things worked exactly. Not exactly my kind of music, btw. EDIT 2: I fixed it. You had "flagDependencies" when it should have been "flagDependecy". Looks like it's working now but will do so more testing later. Honestly there is no real difference between the two. As a said above, your rework is actually a tad longer. Also this bit: <typeDescriptor> <dependencyType> <defaultType name="Optional"/> <patterns> <pattern> <dependencies operator="Or"> <fileDependency file="Requiem.esp" state="Active"/> <fileDependency file="Requiem.esp" state="Inactive"/> </dependencies> <type name="Recommended"/> </pattern> </patterns> </dependencyType> </typeDescriptor>is completely redundant and pointless it would seem. You're basically telling the FOMOD that this option is recommended (selected) if the Requiem.esp file is either active or inactive and as long as it's not missing. However, I don't know if it's a MO thing or would give the same results in WB as well, but it doesn't work whether or not the ESP is present because it gives no warning like it should if you change the selection (according to that guide it should throw a warning). Also, you get the same result in my code without this bit...so it's basically just useless code (at least for MO).

I assume you're talking about the conditional flags and running a section of code depending on which flags are active? I guess I don't know it's full potential then because I thought I was using it as it is suppose to be used. If you rework the code, post it so I can learn what you are doing and better my skills. I do want to point out I had to reset the "custom" flag from On to Off at one point to prevent some unwanted options showing up. It's around the glow texture bit in the code (possibly right before). This was the only way I could prevent the glow options from showing when the user chose not to install them.

The BAIN structure is still there, just one level deeper. I did that to make it easier to manage. I also left the wizard in there because I had planned on reverting that back eventually for an all-in-one installer. It can be reverted within an hour probably. I'd like to know where you learned ConditionalFileIntalls. I've learned everything I know from using other FOMODs as a reference and this guide. Neither that guide or the FOMODs I've referenced use or states anything about those.

Okay, it's been reworked (again). Here is the file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_Nlyy2ueu0ZEYxZW5OZElILU0/edit?usp=sharing Please test is out before uploading it to Nexus. I will provide changes/fixes if needed. I've also updated the ReadMe to include information on how to contact me for FOMOD issues.

If that is the 100% set in stone standard, then I will rework the FOMOD to use it. Won't take that long really. As you said it, it's just simply a PITA to do. I'll have it reworked shortly.

From what I can tell from Nexus, most mods that provide additional language support do so in the form or providing files under their "optional files" sections; thus, allowing the user to only install the languages they need. I'd need examples of mods that do what you are saying before believing that is the standard practice because what I am seeing tells me differently. In fact, I have yet to find a mod that does as you guys are suggesting (granted I haven't look that hard or for that long).

Basically the way it's set up now, they get only the strings they need and nothing else. It's still multilingual, it's just not installing unneeded language files and only installing the languages the user wants. Windows is multilingual as well, but you don't go installing all the available languages do you? I doubt it... You only install the languages you need and nothing else. I don't see the point in installing those unneeded files and if there is no point to them for user that will not need them. What is wrong about allowing the user to choose the language(s) they want and then move on to the rest of the mod installation? Everything comes down to user choice and freedom and the way the FOMOD is set up now (version 2) allows this for the user for all files associated with Soul Gems Differ (except for the Core files; which are installed without choice because they are required). Whether I do it the way I'm doing it (which is nearly already complete) or forcibly install all the associated string files, the end result is the same. The user still gets the language support they need "out of the box" with one install. Unless someone can prove this would not be the case, then I see no reason to change what I've already done. I know I'm being a bit stubborn on this but when I know the end result is the same for the user, I see no point in changing the code (for the third time) for such a small detail. It's like asking a plumber to install a sink then asking him to redo it to install a third knob that is never going to be used and serves no purpose. (The plumber would do it most likely because it's your money and he's getting paid...I'm not). See my point? EDIT: Version 2 is complete, tested and working perfectly (even for multi-language installs)...

Let us please keep our emotions in check and continue in a healthy debate.

There are currently about 7 major things/topics going on both behind the scenes and out for everyone to see. Fear not, we are working on 2.2.9 even if you don't see all the work that is going on.

Okay, here the is progression of each version of the FOMOD: Version 1 Page 1 >> Page 2 >> Page 3 >> Page 4 >> Page 5 Page 1 is the intro. Page 2 the user tells whether or not they're using Requiem and a flag is set. Page 3 user will select language and flag is set. Page 4 will display the ESPs options for the flags set on page 2 and 3. User will select version they want and that will install the appropriate language/version option. Page 4 is the next step. This does not allow multiple language selects. A second FOMOD install would be required for a second language choice. Version 2 Page 1 >> Page 2 >> Page 3 >> Page 4 Page 1 is the intro. Page 2 the user tells whether or not they're using Requiem and a flag is set. Page 3 will display the ESP options for the flag set on page 2. User will select version(s) they want and that will install the appropriate language(s)/version(s) option(s). Page 4 is the next step. This will allow for multiple language installations. I'm now of the opinion version 2 would be best.

The language switch situation would have to be relevant for ALL mod installed, not just Soul Gems Differ meaning if users do this they most likely have most of their mods install twice and use two profiles or use two different MO setups; one for each language. Installing Soul Gems Differ twice like all of the other mods they'd have to do this for would work just fine; however..... The FOMOD is set up to where they can install one from each language if they so choose so the situation has been covered in advance. (i thought about that when updating so I put it in already). The shots will be up in a few minutes (got distracted).

Any happen to take some STEP shots to see what it looks like?

I've already coded it to only install the files associated with the desired language to avoid unnecessary clutter which some users will without a doubt hate as much as I do and eventually complain about. Better to code it right the first time than having to fix it later due to complaints about unnecessary file installs. The shots will be up in a few minutes if the code is working. (about to test it)

No, the DLC are not treated "specially." The Data folder is though and with good reason. Move the DLC out of the Data folder and into the MO mods directory where the rest of your mods are located because the DLC are mods—official mods but still mods. This is one of the smartest and most logical statements I've heard regarding this issue.

Sooo... do the plugins require all the associated language stings to be able to work properly or just the strings for the user's language (English user only needs the English strings)? I really don't care how complicated or simple the code is as long as it works. Users aren't going to see the code. The user experience is more important than simplifying code so whichever works best for the user's point of view is what I'll do and I don't want the FOMOD installing unnecessary files.

Since the strings are tied to the version of the mod the user wants to install there is no way around using conditional flags to capture the choices and install them correctly. The FOMOD is most likely going to be ever bigger because there are now more choices (requiem). There is actually one and only one way around this that I can think of. It would be putting all the language and mod version choices together on one page. This, imo, will look cluttered (and I'm all about clean design); however, this would reduce the FOMOD down. I'll do both versions and post images so you guys can help me decide which is better.

I doubly concur!

(wine is hitting hard and shouldn't be replying to the now...but screw it! ) That's an idea, but then the user would end up with files they don't need and will never need. Not going to do that. Call it my OCD, but that is not acceptable to my level of organization and cleanliness. It must be clutter free! The choice of language shall persist and a clutter free installation from the FOMODs my name is associated with shall remain! (good idea though) The trick is going to get the Requiem choice working with the rest of the FOMOD... still haven't figured that out yet. Will do so when the brain isn't fuzzy! ...it would be super simple if I could simply do "if...else" statements but FOMODs don't work like that.

It does allow that, but you have to write it to install only the files the user needs based on their choice of language and which version of the mod they want to install. Those choices are currently stored in conditional flags. Depending on the flags that are active, a specific section of code runs to install the choices the user chose. The FOMOD most likely isn't going to shrink or be simplified by continuing this method. I can probably tie the stings installation into the selection of desired language and then that would only leave the choice of which version to install. That would shrink the FOMOD down. I'll see what I can do when I update it tomorrow. (again, simplifying this for solely simplifying the FOMOD is pointless as the custom installation method makes up 93% of the the FOMOD code)

OMG!!! This just went from 16 files to 104 files!!!! :O_o: How exactly was this more efficient and better than the 16 files??? I've got to come up with how to write this...thinking this is just as complicated (if not more) for the FOMOD...probably more. (-_-') ...where's my wine? ...going to need a drink.

You are opening a fissure into the depths of hell with this... those compares were brutal!

I can update it if I look at the wizard and can understand it. As for the FOMOD, it was two options. STEP recommended installation and custom installation. That's it. I can easily add in any other preset options if those are spelled out....sort of the purpose of the review that no one did. :: So until then, those are the options it has. It'll probably be tomorrow evening before I can update the FOMOD. Heading to bed shortly and work first thing in the morning.