Mod Organizer 2 Discussion and Feedback

[TechAngel85]

Mod Organizer 2 is now in alpha, which is the 64-bit version of MO featuring support for Fallout 4. Testers are welcome and encouraged!

 

Download the Alpha here: https://github.com/TanninOne/modorganizer/releases

 

This is not a bug report topic! Please report bugs to the GitHub issue tracker.

Thought I'd start this thread for the discussion of MO2 instead of filling the Fallout Support topic with unrelated posts.

[Kesta]

  On 1/15/2016 at 9:23 PM, Tannin said:

Maybe it would help if i add small "open in file manager" to various tabs (saves, downloads, profiles) ?

 

The same for the overwrite would be nice.

[z929669]

  On 1/15/2016 at 9:23 PM, Tannin said:

You can manage your downloads through MO (delete them, hide them for the moment, ...) and MO will correctly remove the associated meta data. We can talk about improving the UI of the download tab (though I would prefer an issue) but I don't want people to feel the need to delete downloads by hand in explorer because THEN I have to consider "manual users" if I want to change anything in how I name or organize the download folder or how I store the meta data.

 

Maybe it would help if i add small "open in file manager" to various tabs (saves, downloads, profiles) ?

 

> It's just a change from what we've been used to for so long that it came as a bit of a surprise.

 

I understand, but there were just too many users having trouble with file permissions. Next release won't even offer portable mode if the MO directory isn't writable. I think this will fix a considerable chunk of support requests which is why I think it's worth it.

 

> I personally offload this from my C drive for space reasons, so I'm glad to here it can be customized.

 

You actually have several options. You can use MO's own path settings to move the individual directories in each instance individually. Windows allows you to move the AppData/Local directory as a whole. Or you can have AppData/Local/Modorganizer as a link/reparse point/junction point/whatever you call it to a different drive.

Bingo!

Indeed. This is the option the average power user would choose (I do it now in Win 10 to overcome some app issues I had).

[GrantSP]

  On 1/15/2016 at 1:29 PM, Tannin said:

What other folder would you suggest? I don't specify appdata directly, i call an api to retrieve a writable location. What other folder can i rely on to exist being writable with user permissions on windows?

For 'downloads and 'mods', I suggest "My Documents"

 

  On 1/15/2016 at 5:32 PM, Tannin said:

That's pretty much what has been implemented. You can choose the location through settings, are even reminded to do so after creating the instance and if you fail to, data is stored in a location that I can rely on to work.

 

 

No, sorry, but My Documents is just wrong. Skyrim/Fallout4 shouldn't be storing their ini files and save games there either. Microsoft has guidelines on where to store files, storing application settings in My Documents violates them.

My Documents is for user managed documents like audio files, text files, pictures, ...

User-Managed means: They don't change unless the user actively edits them (i.e. in word, photoshop, ...) My Documents is in a visible location so you can easily find files when you want to send them to friends or something.

 

AppData is intended for application managed files which a user will usually not touch directly and may break the program if he does so. This applies to MOs ini files, its profiles, its mods, its cache. Unless you really know what you're doing you should not be touching any of those outside MO, hence a hidden location is a good thing. And if you do know what you're doing, finding appdata won't be a hurdle.

 

And I'm fairly certain you will find on your own system that most applications that aren't from the win98 era agree with me...

For your application settings, sure AppData is fine. The wording of the post implied that 'downloads' and 'mods' would automatically go here. If this is not the case then that's good.

I think it's safe to say that these days users are wanting to store large files, such as mods, on drives that aren't SSDs and the ability to designate where to save your files is mandatory. Since it looks like that is the path that MO2 is heading, all is fine in the world again.

[SirTwist]

I think I will wait for the next release before I try it again. I would like to state that most, average, users, don't know where appdata  is located, and not a good place to things for them. However, most users of Mod Organizers are above average user level. I know most of use are at least advanced level users. So, in reevaulating things, I did come to realize that appdata, aside from parts of it getting cleared out by things like CCleaner, is a decent place to place everything, initially. (And for average users.) However, the problem, as near as I can tell, to run the games better, people use SSD drives. Now, the problem with that is, limited drive space. And that is where things can get a bit hairy. However, since most of us are above average, we can pick and choose where things go, so we can then determine what goes on the actual drive, or not. Tannin, this isn't about MO 2, or you, just airing out somethings that we all need to be clear on. I, for one, can see, when I build a new computer down the road, the need for placing things so that I only have the game and mods on a drive, and leave the rest on a different drive. Of course I would also like it if we could have a working data folder option, where we can use TES5Edit, and variations of, to clean up everything, merge what we really want, and put all of that where we need it.

 

 My Documents isn't a bad place, however, it is not a place where I want to keep things, and even bloat a few things. And the user downloads? I try my absolute best NOT to use that, at all. I have a directory on my desktop where my downloads go. I then pick and choose, from there, where the downloads actually go. Of course I also like keeping my desktop clean of icons, shortcuts, etc.

[Kelmych]

I wanted to provide some status on how Mod Organizer 2 is working for me. MO 2 alpha 3 is installed so that it handles only one game, Fallout 4. The downloads and mods folders are specified in the ModOrganizer.ini file. MO 2 itself and the downloads folder are on an HDD. The game folder and the mods folder are on an SSD. Windows 8.1 64 bit is being used; this will change to Windows 10 soon.

 

Initially MO 2 alpha 3 crashed when installing mods, but the "bsa_extractor.dll" file was removed from the plugins folder and now there are no crashes when installing mods.

 

The 64 bit version of LOOT was installed and added as an executable in MO 2. Using the procedure described by GDSFan for LOOT, LOOT is sorting the plugins with MO 2 with no problems so far.

 

My game was one of the ones significantly affected by the recent loading time problem with Fallout 4 beta 1.3.45 (loading times increased to roughly 3 minutes). Beta 1.3.47 is now being used which made significant improvements in the loading times. Interestingly, I compared loading with the Fallout loader to loading with F4SE. Using F4SE the game loading times are 1.5 to 2 times faster than when using Fallout Launcher, which surprised me. This is true both when plugins are used as when no plugins are used.

 

I have not had any CTD with MO 2 alpha 3 so far.

[FrostByghte]

I wanted to jump in and say I have MO 2 Alpha 3 running with FO4Edit 3.1.3.  What got me working was a post made on github https://github.com/TanninOne/modorganizer/issues/513  For me the key here is simply clicking the UNLOCK Mod Organizer when running FO4Edit.  Once I do that, FO4Edit runs just fine.  I am using a version of FO4Edit that I downloaded from the Nexus roughly 2 weeks prior.

[SirTwist]

I had a problem with Fo4Edit, MO2a3, and NMM. In order to get MO2 and FO4Edit to work, switching from NMM, you need to delete everything in your appdata\local\Fallout 4 folder. That will help a lot.

[Dragon02022003]

I currently am using NMM to handle mods and then using MO2 Alpha 3  for the use of the profiles (multiple players in home). I had to use NMM for the mods because some mods don't play well with MO2 and some texture mods do not show in game either. MO2 started crashing on me last night before even loading the game.

 

The log shows this:

 

14:06:48 [D] start main application

14:06:48 [D] data path: C:/Users/JEREMY/AppData/Local/ModOrganizer/Fallout 4

14:06:48 [D] Working directory: F:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\ModOrganizer2 Alpha 3 (Second)

14:06:48 [D] initializing core

14:06:48 [D] usvfs log messages are written to C:/Users/JEREMY/AppData/Local/ModOrganizer/Fallout 4/logs/usvfs-2016-01-29_19-06-48.log

14:06:48 [D] initialize plugins

14:06:48 [D] looking for plugins in F:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\ModOrganizer2 Alpha 3 (Second)\plugins

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "check_fnis.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "diagnose_basic.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFallout3.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFallout4.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFalloutNV.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameOblivion.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameSkyrim.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "inibakery.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "inieditor.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_bain.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_bundle.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_fomod.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_manual.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_ncc.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_quick.dll"

14:06:48 [C] Failed to load python runner ():  (errorcode 193)

 

Edit: MO2 stops crashing if I take all mods out of NMM.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Dragon02022003

[exploiteddna]

  On 1/29/2016 at 7:12 PM, Dragon02022003 said:

 

I currently am using NMM to handle mods and then using MO2 Alpha 3  for the use of the profiles (multiple players in home). I had to use NMM for the mods because some mods don't play well with MO2 and some texture mods do not show in game either. MO2 started crashing on me last night before even loading the game.

 

The log shows this:

 

14:06:48 [D] start main application

14:06:48 [D] data path: C:/Users/JEREMY/AppData/Local/ModOrganizer/Fallout 4

14:06:48 [D] Working directory: F:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\ModOrganizer2 Alpha 3 (Second)

14:06:48 [D] initializing core

14:06:48 [D] usvfs log messages are written to C:/Users/JEREMY/AppData/Local/ModOrganizer/Fallout 4/logs/usvfs-2016-01-29_19-06-48.log

14:06:48 [D] initialize plugins

14:06:48 [D] looking for plugins in F:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\ModOrganizer2 Alpha 3 (Second)\plugins

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "check_fnis.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "diagnose_basic.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFallout3.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFallout4.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameFalloutNV.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameOblivion.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "gameSkyrim.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "inibakery.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "inieditor.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_bain.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_bundle.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_fomod.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_manual.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_ncc.dll"

14:06:48 [D] loaded plugin "installer_quick.dll"

14:06:48 [C] Failed to load python runner ():  (errorcode 193)

 

Edit: MO2 stops crashing if I take all mods out of NMM.

 

very interesting, thx for the feedback. I may try a full clean install of MO, FO4, completely removing NMM and all installed mods.. maybe this can help me with the crashing. then again, if MO isnt able to handle all of the FO4 mods, that may not be the best idea.. but a part of me just wants a functional MO (i.e. one that doesnt crash immediately at FO4 launch), regardless of the cost.

We'll see..

[SirTwist]

I'm going to write up a guide on how to use Mod Organizer 2 alpha 3, FO4Edit, and Loot, if no one minds. This is will be how to install, and use, Mo2a3, not what mods to use. I'll probably start to work on it soon, if one hasn't been written. If one has, then it's okay, I will still write mine up, but over on the Nexus forums.

[Kelmych]

I tried using the 64 bit version of FO4Edit and MO 2 a3 will start it up, but once I click OK nothing happens.

[FrostByghte]

Alpha 4 is out now, give that a shot.

[Kelmych]

Thanks. FO4Edit starts up properly with MO2 a4.

[EoLynn]

Indeed, FO4Edit starts up well with alpha4, it helped me find a couple errors in load order.

 

By the way, I can't launch the game from MO2: Fallout 4 executables are set (paths to my Steam folder) but nothing happens when I click RUN.

Any idea?

[Kelmych]

I've been using F4SE to start the game. It seems faster than the Launcher. By the way, are you able to use the Fallout Launcher from MO?