ACCEPTED Improved Close Faced Helmets (by navida1)

[EssArrBee]

Sorry not sure what I was typing in that post. Might have been drunk. Just follow the wiki guide's instructions.

[Ubeogesh]

So I don't understand something. I see it was discussed here already, but I didn't see a straight answer.

The following file's readme: Improved Closefaced Helmets -- WAF and CCF Compatible Versions says following:

 

I have also included a combined "Legendary" version of Improved Closefaced Helmets. This file requires Dawnguard and Dragonborn, and replaces imp_helm, imp_helm_dawn, and imp_help_dbrn. The changes from the two optional files (imp_guard_helm and imp_helm_imp) are not included in this combined file. If you want either of these options, then simply install those files after Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp.

The STEP wiki tells me to install the imp_helm_imp:

 

Also install the "Improved Dawnguard helmets" and "Improved Closefaced Helmets -- Dragonborn Addon -- 0_9" main files and the "improved imperial full face helmet - no cloth around the neck-" optional.

The improved imperial full face helmet - no cloth around the neck- file is the imp_helm_imp.esp.

And then the STEP wiki tells me to remove that file:

 

The esp plugins for these 4 files are not used, when using Mod Organizer they can be moved to Optional ESPS.

So why then I install the no cloth around the neck file if I don't use it (I am suggested to remove the ESP via ModOrganizer, and the ESP changes aren't included in the "Legendary" edition that I am suggested to use)?

[hypercleats]

I have the same problem as Ubeogesh. This specific question has been asked in this thread more than once, and there is no plain answer? Either the instructions given in the Improved Closefaced Helmets - WAF/CCF Compatibility README are wrong, or the instructions given by STEP are in error (or incomplete). The issue is down to one esp file: "imp_guard_imp" -- the mod README clearly states that the "Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp" does NOT include the changes in "imp_guard_imp.esp".

 

STEP instructs us to install the "Improved Imperial Full Face Helmet - No Cloth Around the Neck" optional patch, but then instructs to get rid of the "imp_guard_imp.esp" that enables this patch. What is the point of installing this optional patch at all if the esp is not to be used? (Is this intentional?)

 

 

• Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp

This esp includes modified records for all 4 of the esp plugins mentioned above.

 

No, it does not. It includes 3 of the 4 mentioned, but not the modified records in "imp_guard_imp.esp." The STEP guide should either correct this error or explicitly state that the modified records in "imp_guard_imp.esp" are meant to be discarded.

[EssArrBee]

I swear I fixed this twice already.

Alright, I fixed it.

 

Also, who keeps using contractions and pronouns on the wiki pages? Were you born in a barn. Queen's English people. 

[Kelmych]

I have the same problem as Ubeogesh. This specific question has been asked in this thread more than once, and there is no plain answer? Either the instructions given in the Improved Closefaced Helmets - WAF/CCF Compatibility README are wrong, or the instructions given by STEP are in error (or incomplete). The issue is down to one esp file: "imp_guard_imp" -- the mod README clearly states that the "Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp" does NOT include the changes in "imp_guard_imp.esp".

 

STEP instructs us to install the "Improved Imperial Full Face Helmet - No Cloth Around the Neck" optional patch, but then instructs to get rid of the "imp_guard_imp.esp" that enables this patch. What is the point of installing this optional patch at all if the esp is not to be used? (Is this intentional?)

 

 

No, it does not. It includes 3 of the 4 mentioned, but not the modified records in "imp_guard_imp.esp." The STEP guide should either correct this error or explicitly state that the modified records in "imp_guard_imp.esp" are meant to be discarded.

If you load  imp_helm_imp.esp and also Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp and look at them in TES5Edit (I just did this to make sure), you will see that Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp already includes the records needed for this patch. The wiki instructions (which I have since edited and should be easier to understand (I hope)) weren't quite correct; none of the individual patch plugins from WAF are needed if the WAF legendary plugin is used. The legendary patch from WAF actually seems to include the records for replacing five plugins, not just three. It also includes the records for replacing the plugin for the improved guard helm (which isn't one of the STEP suggested options) if that option is added. By the way, this is also consistent with the SR:LE instructions for Improved Closefaced Helmets.

 

The FormIDs for Armor Addon records are in most cases not the same in the legendary plugin and the individual patch plugins, but the since this mod replaces vanilla armor the armor FormIDs are already defined by the Bethesda esm plugins.

 

For those who want to verify an example of this compare the contents of the ImperialHelmetCWOR Armor Addon record in imp_helm_imp (FormID xx004B4B) with the contents of the ImperialHelmetCWOR Armor Addon record in Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp (FormID xx05002B), or the StormcloakHelmOpen Armor Addon record in imp_guard_helm.esp (FormID xx000D62)  with the contents of the StormcloakHelmOpen Armor Addon record in Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp (FormID xx050000). 

[kryptopyr]

Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp was made by combining the following three files: imp_helm, imp_helm_dawn, and imp_helm_dbrn.  The Armor Addon records from imp_helm_imp.esp differ from those in Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp, so that file is still needed. 

 

However, I'm not seeing any difference between the records in imp_guard_helm.esp and imp_helm.esp (which are the same for Improved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.esp).  Does the original imp_guard_helm.esp differ in some way from the main mod?  In the WAF versions at least, it doesn't appear that this .esp is actually adding anything new or making any changes not present in the main file. 

[TechAngel85]

So what you're saying is that if activated, users can actually deactivate all of these: imp_helm, imp_helm_dawn, and imp_helm_dbrn ...as long as Legendary is used?

 

Also, I have: imp_help_dbrn.esp not imp_helm_dbrn.esp

[kryptopyr]

So what you're saying is that if activated, users can actually deactivate all of these: imp_helm, imp_helm_dawn, and imp_helm_dbrn ...as long as Legendary is used?

 

Also, I have: imp_help_dbrn.esp not imp_helm_dbrn.esp

You're right, it's "help" not "helm" in the filename.  Do you happen to know if it was this way in the original file or did I goof up when making the WAF version?

 

Yes, the Legendary file will replace imp_helm, imp_helm_dawn, and imp_help_dbrn, as well as imp_guard_helm (the .esp data doesn't seem to change regardless of whether or not users have this optional file installed, so the change must be entirely in the meshes).  If someone wants to double-check this in the original files, I'd appreciate it.  I'll probably do so myself the sooner or later, but I don't have the time to mess with it right now.

[TechAngel85]

No, it's in the files from "Improved Closefaced Helmets -- Dragonborn Addon -- 0_9-15927-0-9" as imp_help_dbrn.esp

[Kelmych]

The spoiler tagged text lists all the differences between the original imp_helm_imp, the WAF imp_helm_imp, and the WAF legendary plugins.

 

 

 

Armor record (FormID 009610D)

 

                         Original imp_helm_imp        WAF legendary and WAF version of imp_helm_imp

FULL - name:        Imperial Helmet               Imperial Crested Helmet

 

 

Armor Addon records

 

The only differences in armor addon records are in the BOD2 - Biped Body Template entries

The WAF legendary records use some additional flags

The original imp_helm_imp armor addon plugin records and WAF imp_helm_imp plugin armor addon records are identical

 

In ImperialHelmetCWAA armor addon record

 

                            imp_helm_imp         WAF legendary

First Person Flags:  Hair                         Hair, Long Hair

 

in ImperialHelmetArgonianAA armor addon records

 

                           imp_helm_imp             WAF legendary

First Person Flags:  Hair                          Hair, Long Hair, Body AddOn 2

 

in the ImperialHelmetCWOR record

 

                            imp_helm_imp             WAF legendary

First Person Flags:  Hair, Body AddOn 2      Hair, Long Hair, Body AddOn 2

 

The difference between the WAF version of imp_helm_imp and the WAF legendary patch is that the latter has the Long Hair flag for the relevant armor addon records, and the Body Addon 2 flag for Argonians . This very small difference is why I've said that the additional WAF imp_helm_imp plugin isn't needed if the WAF legendary patch is used. If it is preferable to use the exact same Body Template flags as the original imp_helm_imp plugin then perhaps the armor addon records in the WAF legendary patch could be changed to use these, in which case the additional plugin would still not be needed.

[kryptopyr]

I would check the Imperial helmets in game to see if there is much clipping when the "long hair" flags are present.  My assumption is that the imp_helm_imp removed these tags to prevent the hair from clipping, but I haven't actually tested to see if that's the reason or how much of a difference those tags really make when using the optional Imperial file.

[Kelmych]

I looked at some imperial guards. I don't see much hair at the bottom of the helmet, and no clipping of hair. I do occasionally see a little clipping of the bottom of the helmet with the cape that the guards wear.

[torminater]

Capes are from cloaks of Skyrim or winter is coming. Those mods tend to clip a lot...

[Kelmych]

For this comparison I was primarily interested in whether there was some hair that caused clipping. Sadly, as you mentioned, cloaks are well known for clipping. 

[phryxolydian]

OK so then imp_helm_imp (WAF) isn't needed then but the imp_guard_helm still is. correct?

Edited May 7, 2014 by phryxolydian