Skyrim Gameplay Rebalance

[Harpalus]

Revenge of the enemies adds flavor tithe game by adding new skills to enemies, but I'm uncertain of how balanced it is. I'm thinking of removing it. One thing I noticed, and this might apply to my play style only: crafting doesn't level naturally. The only way I've found to level crafting is to craft stuff that you are not going to use. This means that I craft lots of daggers until I reach max level in crafting. This also means I reach a higher level without leveling any combat skills and combat will be much harder. After approximately level 30 the game gets much easier. I am now going to add back the mods from the hardcore section of this pack. But I'll try without revenge of the enemies. The main reason is its compatibility issues. Even though I have resolved all of them it conflicts with many mods that people might want to use. I'm also going to try the mods harplus suggested, combat evolved as well as the mod that lowers the backpedling speed. I'm also going to check out the morrowloot patch that gpthree suggested, but that fits one of my other packs. Lastly I'm going to try to create an OBIS - Morrowloot patch and add OBIS to this pack if I succeed (it's more time consuming than hard, but there are more scripted utilities available now than last I tried).

My time has been limited lately unfortunately so this might take a week or two.

 

I really wish I had more time to play Skyrim as well, or I'd be able to help out more with the suggestions. From CrushBoss:

 

My mod isn't balanced when combined with High Level Enemies, however, many players run it with Combat Evolved. You will face really tough opponents with both mods in your load order. I was level 10 and encountered a level 22 boss which wiped the floor with me (with HLE installed). I have since removed HLE just so that I can judge properly balancing with Combat Evolved. I also had to remove several other mods that I would have otherwise run if I wasn't a mod author and was constantly tweaking balancing. You may be best off with the "Combat Evolved - No Magic or Spell changes" version if SPERG overhauls magic. I've never run it personally. You may also have to lower your game difficulty setting. I'm not telling you to drop any of your mods (don't get me wrong). Combat Evolved is pretty balanced on it's own and additional difficulty mods can upset the balance.

 

However, CrushBoss seems to have since contradicted this. Later post:

 

I don't run SkyRe EnemyScaling but I do run High Level Enemies, SIC, and Revenge of the Enemies which is equivalent to EnemyScaling (plus more). I have to build my own compatibility patch for these mods and my load order.

 

I don't really know what would be best for the pack without more playtesting. I'm also interested in Animal Tweaks, because the author is correct that animals, trolls, and giants don't provide much challenge for most of your playthrough past a certain point. I've had bad luck in the past running both HLE and Combat Evolved, so I'm considering dropping High Level Enemies for my own game: then the game will get relatively easy in the end-game, but at this point I'm not sure how much I care. Might be a good tradeoff, if Combat Evolved is decent. The last time I tried using both High Level Enemies and Combat Evolved together I found combat to be unnecessarily annoying.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Harpalus

[dreadflopp]

Combat past lvl 30 gets easier and easier for me. That's why I'm thinking high level enemies should be good but it needs something more since I already have that installed. High level enemies hardcore should raise the enemy level But it also edits the difficulty settings which is totally unnecessary imo. The adept setting, which is the fair setting where enemies and player both deal x1 damage becomes novice in HLE hardcore. This also means that the ordinary HLE doesn't do a very good job; I kill most enemies with one or two arrows. Combat evolved could be a replacement, probaby in the hardcore section (?).

To add more challenge, PermaZones might do a good job.

[TenderHooligan]

I really wish I had more time to play Skyrim as well, or I'd be able to help out more with the suggestions. From CrushBoss:

 

 

However, CrushBoss seems to have since contradicted this. Later post:

 

 

I don't really know what would be best for the pack without more playtesting. I'm also interested in Animal Tweaks, because the author is correct that animals, trolls, and giants don't provide much challenge for most of your playthrough past a certain point. I've had bad luck in the past running both HLE and Combat Evolved, so I'm considering dropping High Level Enemies for my own game: then the game will get relatively easy in the end-game, but at this point I'm not sure how much I care. Might be a good tradeoff, if Combat Evolved is decent. The last time I tried using both High Level Enemies and Combat Evolved together I found combat to be unnecessarily annoying.

PermaZONES author here, just giving some thoughts on my own experience and what I know from talking to and working with CrushBoss.

 

I believe CB dropping HLE while using CE was for testing purposes only, in order to find the "right" balance for CE. As he now considers the mod "finished" and is basically done with modding Skyrim, he added HLE back in for his own personal playthroughs. Sort of the same thing with how there's the super hard version of CE because a few people asked for it even though he doesn't recommend it and thinks it's unbalanced.

 

Honestly I've found Animal Tweaks to make a huge difference in terms of difficulty, more so than HLE or CE imo. At least in regards to the main overworld. Bears become absolute beasts that totally wreck you if you can't kill them before they close to within melee distance (which they do very quickly). They will ragdoll you on first hit and be able to maul you again repeatedly before you get up again, even with something like Faster Get Up Stand Up installed. And it is all but impossible to out DPS a troll's regen ability as a melee/archer character without a Fire enchantment until you're around level 25-30. Of course, you don't find many dungeons with these sorts of enemies so like I said it has a bigger effect on traversing the overworld than dungeon crawling where you're meeting more bandits, draugr and vampires.

 

While I use all of HLE, CE, AT, RotE & PermaZONES in my playthroughs (along with Deadly Combat), that's probably overkill for 90%+ of all players and I wouldn't recommend featuring all of them in the pack as standard. 

 

I'd like to create a unified balance and compatibility patch for these mods as well as OBIS and SIC, but that's quite the task and I'd rather wait until SIC v7 drops before really tackling the issue so I don't have to start from scratch if/when it finally comes out. 

[caiuscosades]

"I'd like to create a unified balance and compatibility patch for these mods as well as OBIS and SIC, but that's quite the task and I'd rather wait until SIC v7 drops before really tackling the issue so I don't have to start from scratch if/when it finally comes out."

 

That sir would be great. I'm currently holding back until I achieve a proper balance. Sticking to OBIS, SIC, HLE+SIC, Immersive Patrols (any chance this one conflicts with your mod ?) following SRLE plus CE, AT and Deadly / Ultimate Combat for now, but throwing RotE a/o PermaZones into the mix would be great. I'll continue stalking this thread.

Edited May 6, 2015 by caiuscosades

[Harpalus]

PermaZONES author here, just giving some thoughts on my own experience and what I know from talking to and working with CrushBoss.

 

I believe CB dropping HLE while using CE was for testing purposes only, in order to find the "right" balance for CE. As he now considers the mod "finished" and is basically done with modding Skyrim, he added HLE back in for his own personal playthroughs. Sort of the same thing with how there's the super hard version of CE because a few people asked for it even though he doesn't recommend it and thinks it's unbalanced.

 

Honestly I've found Animal Tweaks to make a huge difference in terms of difficulty, more so than HLE or CE imo. At least in regards to the main overworld. Bears become absolute beasts that totally wreck you if you can't kill them before they close to within melee distance (which they do very quickly). They will ragdoll you on first hit and be able to maul you again repeatedly before you get up again, even with something like Faster Get Up Stand Up installed. And it is all but impossible to out DPS a troll's regen ability as a melee/archer character without a Fire enchantment until you're around level 25-30. Of course, you don't find many dungeons with these sorts of enemies so like I said it has a bigger effect on traversing the overworld than dungeon crawling where you're meeting more bandits, draugr and vampires.

 

While I use all of HLE, CE, AT, RotE & PermaZONES in my playthroughs (along with Deadly Combat), that's probably overkill for 90%+ of all players and I wouldn't recommend featuring all of them in the pack as standard. 

 

I'd like to create a unified balance and compatibility patch for these mods as well as OBIS and SIC, but that's quite the task and I'd rather wait until SIC v7 drops before really tackling the issue so I don't have to start from scratch if/when it finally comes out. 

Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to seeing your patch. I don't use SIC, HLE, and RotE primarily for compatibility reasons: it would be nice to see some of these options unified better.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Harpalus

[TenderHooligan]

"I'd like to create a unified balance and compatibility patch for these mods as well as OBIS and SIC, but that's quite the task and I'd rather wait until SIC v7 drops before really tackling the issue so I don't have to start from scratch if/when it finally comes out."

 

That sir would be great. I'm currently holding back until I achieve a proper balance. Sticking to OBIS, SIC, HLE+SIC, Immersive Patrols (any chance this one conflicts with your mod ?) following SRLE plus CE, AT and Deadly / Ultimate Combat for now, but throwing RotE a/o PermaZones into the mix would be great. I'll continue stalking this thread.

Immersive Patrols works fine with PZ. PZ only touches a very small number of external areas, none of which interact with Immersive Patrols. 

[caiuscosades]

Thanks, I currently have both installed (not sure wether I should use PZ default or balanced version though).

Edited May 14, 2015 by caiuscosades

[dreadflopp]

Things are moving slowly for me atm. Haven't had time to play anything in the last two weeks. I added OBIS to the pack today though. Haven't had time to try it but it should work. It overwrites Revenge of the enemies, which might be removed soon. Morrowloot support is added through the Modular Morrowloot Overhaul page. If you install OBIS with Morrowloot, don't forget the lvl list download.

Edited May 15, 2015 by dreadflopp

[GalenZ]

I added OBIS to the pack today though. Haven't had time to try it but it should work. It overwrites Revenge of the enemies, which might be removed soon. Morrowloot support is added through the Modular Morrowloot Overhaul page. If you install OBIS with Morrowloot, don't forget the lvl list download.

Please don't remove RoE just because you added OBIS.  RoE alters lots of NPCs that OBIS doesn't, and has no scripts, so it's valuable even with OBIS installed.

[dreadflopp]

Please don't remove RoE just because you added OBIS. RoE alters lots of NPCs that OBIS doesn't, and has no scripts, so it's valuable even with OBIS installed.

Since you ask that nicely I'll keep it, at least as an optional mod. ☺

[FuzzRocket9]

Hey Dreadflopp, when you added the Toxicity Witcher-like system mod, did it have any compatibility issues out of the box? Let me know if you don't mind. I want to add this mod to my old MMO profile that I'm currently playing before you made these new changes. Would love to see a version for casting magic on yourself, if that's realistic in Skyrim's setting. I only know about the mod that gives you visual changes when Magicka/Stamina is low, I forgot the name of that one though.

 

Thanks as always man!

Edited June 6, 2015 by FuzzRocket9

[FuzzRocket9]

Sorry for my double post. I had to edit my post above me to ask you something, but I don't know when you'll check this thread. So I'll make it useful by saying something in here :)

 

The one thing that bothered me in RotE was that your enemies, all of them or most would bring magic upon you to a sword fight. I like LotR style where only certain NPCs use magic, and the rest charge at you with steel and might! If anyone knows of another mod that would only limit magic to NPCs dressed in arcane apparel, thanks please post :)

[dreadflopp]

 @FuzzRocket9 There weren't any compatibility issues with Toxicity so it should be safe to add. What do you mean with a mod for casting magic on yourself? Something that limits the use of magic on yourself? I don't know of any but try the mod detective thread, someone else might.

 

I tend to agree with RotE. As stated before I'm testing without it with other mods added but I'm having some difficulties witch actually playing. I'm suffering from CTD's at the moment and troubleshooting is not going very well. That's what you get from installing/uninstalling/switching/upgrading without starting a new game :)

 

Magic should in my opinion be rare and powerful, like D&D or maybe even LotR but it doesn't seem to be Bethesda's vision for Skyrim where anyone can learn low level spells by simply reading a tome.

[FuzzRocket9]

Yep. Glad I'm not the only one. I think we talked about this before or it's deja vu.

 

I was just thinking of a mod that would cause you to get sick or receive negative effects from casting too many heals and so on. It's not important, because I'm not running a mage of any kind right now. I'm running my Conan build :)

[dreadflopp]

I believe we have 😊 RotE makes a lot of changes to character records meaning a lot of compatibility issues. They are easily resolvef but mods that rebalances combat, like combat evolved, is a better and cleaner solution imo. I just need to play a little to balance things.

 

Good thing is I have finally finished dragon age and gotten bored of dying light so it's back to Skyrim.