pack A Real Explorer's Guide to Skyrim

[Kelmych]

First the basic guidelines. The REGS pack pages cover some of this but it can be fairly complicated, so I'm not surprised you might be confused. If you merge patch files vs. full mods then there is rarely a problem, by the way.

• If you merge plugins and none of the plugins have their own NAVI record, or if only one of the plugins has a NAVI record, you don't need to do anything additional after the merge.
• If you merge plugins and there are NAVI records in more than one of the plugins but all the plugins have the same master file (ignoring the vanilla master files) and that master file is an ESM plugin, and you have unpacked any BSAs for the master file (e.g., merging the modular town/settlement files in ETaC) then after merging with "Merge Plugins" is complete  open TES5Edit with only the merged plugin checked and check for errors then delete the NAVI record and save the resulting merged plugin. Then open the creation kit, set the merged plugin as the active file, and when the error messages finish save the plugin and exit. Done!

 

Any other case is complicated.

 

Hopefully I explained this right.

 

For the compatibility plugins you merged do more than one of them have a NAVI record? If there are no NAVI records in the compatibility patches you don't need to do anything; the complex procedure is only for fixing the NAVI record of the merged plugin.  If so, since you mention multiple masters, then unfortunately you may need to follow the procedure described here . Provide more detail about what you are merging and I can provide more specific guidance.

[titanbass1]

First the basic guidelines. The REGS pack pages cover some of this but it can be fairly complicated, so I'm not surprised you might be confused. If you merge patch files vs. full mods then there is rarely a problem, by the way.

• If you merge plugins and none of the plugins have their own NAVI record, or if only one of the plugins has a NAVI record, you don't need to do anything additional after the merge.
• If you merge plugins and there are NAVI records in more than one of the plugins but all the plugins have the same master file (ignoring the vanilla master files) and that master file is an ESM plugin, and you have unpacked any BSAs for the master file (e.g., merging the modular town/settlement files in ETaC) then after merging with "Merge Plugins" is complete  open TES5Edit with only the merged plugin checked and check for errors then delete the NAVI record and save the resulting merged plugin. Then open the creation kit, set the merged plugin as the active file, and when the error messages finish save the plugin and exit. Done!

 

Any other case is complicated.

 

Hopefully I explained this right.

 

For the compatibility plugins you merged do more than one of them have a NAVI record? If there are no NAVI records in the compatibility patches you don't need to do anything; the complex procedure is only for fixing the NAVI record of the merged plugin.  If so, since you mention multiple masters, then unfortunately you may need to follow the procedure described here . Provide more detail about what you are merging and I can provide more specific guidance.

Hello and thank you for the reply! I did not get a message notifying your reply so sorry for the delay. I have looked at that guide in quite depth, but the issue for me is that the instructions are hard to see as the pictures require a photobucket subscription, so I can't see the photos the author put up. What also didn't help me out is that the guide is for the old Merge Plugins TES5Edit addon, not the new standalone application.

 

Forgive me if I am repeating what you might already know, but it might just be easier to start from the beginning.

 

So here is the scenario. I use Open Cities of Skyrim. Open Cities has a list of compatibility patches, found here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/59937/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D59937&pUp=1

 

The ones I downloaded and installed, as I also have these files installed too, are the 3DNPC (Interesting NPCs), Legendary, Cutting Room Floor, Falskaar, and Quest Pitfighter patches. I use the updated standalone application of Merge Plugins, not the older TES5Edit extension. I load up all the required files, use LOOT, open Merge Plugins, make a merge, and I get the "there are conflicting Navmesh errors" warning from Merge Plugins. Not knowing how to solve this, I find this tutorial and the link you sent me. It says I have to delete the navigation mesh info map found within the merged mod I made in TES5Edit. So I go and open it up and sure enough there is no navigation mesh info map found. 

 

Deciding to skip this step, as I found no info map, I found the post on page 169 of this guide that states that I have to ESMify the master files of my merged mod. The files I needed to ESMify are 3DNPC, Cutting Room Floor, Quest Pitfighter, and Open Cities of Skyrim. So I open Wyre Bash and do that to those files. After doing that, I load open Creation Kit and am torn. Do I need to also activate the all of the merged mod's master files? If so, do I also need to activate the master files of my merged mod's master files? If by your recent explanation, I guess I don't need to activate the master files. The other thing that I don't know is when/if I need to add the BSA files into the editor ini. so that they are unpacked. Do I need to add BSA files if I am merging weapon/armor mods, which I plan on doing too?

 

Again, I am so sorry for not totally following these instructions. I am very new to the more advanced mechanics of Skyrim modding. I was kinda surprised there was no video on this topic to make it easier for us inexperienced modders. Thank you so much for your assistance. 

[Kelmych]

Apparently the author of Expanded Towns and Cities let her Photobucket subscription lapse, and unfortunately she put a lot of the useful information in the pictures vs. text. The text by itself is still one of the most complete descriptions of the steps that need to be followed. I avoided adding the details of how to do this in complex cases to the REGS guide since there are so few patches that contain NAVI records and even the step in simpler cases of opening a plugin in the Creation Kit and then saving it is uncomfortable for many users.

 

Few mods are compatible with Open Cities, and the full set of mods in REGS isn't compatible with Open cities. Hopefully the patches you have work with the updated versions of some of these mods. For the mods you want check to see which of the individual patch plugins you want to merge include NAVI records. If there are no more than one then after the merge you don't need the complex procedure, no matter how many master files there are.

 

If you have multiple masters and multiple plugins being merged with NAVI records, then the complex procedure is needed. Briefly, before you open the Creation Kit you need to:

• determine the desired plugin order of the non-vanilla masters;
• open Wyre Bash;
• use Wyre Bash to change the time of each plugin that is a master (in the middle right window of WB), saving each modified plugin with the "save" button in the same window. The times need to be in the desired plugin order since the CK uses the plugin time to determine plugin order;
• use Wyre Bash to "esmify" each of the master plugins that is currently an esp (using right click on mod in left pane).

 

Then you open the CK, select the merged plugin, make it active, and when the error messages stop save the plugin and exit.

Then you need to undo the "esmification" of plugins and, if desired, put the mod times back to their original time

 

Alternatively you can merge only the plugins that have no NAVI records and leave the ones with NAVI records out of the merge. I often do this if there are only a few with NAVI records.

[titanbass1]

OK. So I checked the patches in TES5Edit and apparently none of them have NAVI records, which to me begs the question why am I getting navmesh conflicts that need resolved? 

 

And when you say "multiple masters and multiple plugins being merged with NAVI records," what exactly do you mean? If I am merging a bunch of weapon mods with navi conflicts that don't have other mods treating them as master files, do I just load up the merge in CK and don't worry about esmifying the plugins the weapons depend on? I'm not merging plugins that have others depending on them, so does that mean I am simply just merging plugins and not masters?

 

Again, please forgive me for my constant questions. I'm just trying to get this as completely clarified as possible for myself since I am so new to this type of modding.

Thanks so much for your quick replies and patience!

[Kelmych]

Usually only location mods and quest mods have NAVI records, and even compatibility mods for these usually don't usually have NAVI records. The guide covers merging only the patches. Merging mods themself is more likely to have two or more plugins with NAVI records.

 

The creation kit step after plugin merging is only needed if two or more of the plugins included a NAVI record. That is the criteria.

[titanbass1]

So if the mods and or compatibility patches get merged, have navmesh conflicts, but don't have a NAVI record, what do you do to stop the conflicts that show up in TES5Edit?

[Kelmych]

If there is an actual navmesh conflict (vs. NAVI) then it's harder to fix. This article by Arthmoor  discusses how to fix it using TES5Edit, but it isn't easy to read or do it. I haven't done this myself yet; I've tried to avoid needing to do this.

[Kelmych]

In some cases, perhaps many, you will have to choose which mods navmesh records (in cells) you want to use. Whichever plugin is closer to the bottom (higher plugin number) wins when merging. In most cases it probably doesn't matter a lot. Using the procedure above is very tedious and should not be needed very often, and certainly not for the mods in the REGS pack. The navmesh records don't need to be perfect; I've been able to ignore small navmesh conflicts wtih several mods I've used.

[CJ2311]

I do agree that small conflicts are not really problematic, however if it's conflicts that stop followers and npcs from following you though doors for instance, they can easily be fixed by following the tutorial I've posted here.

 

 

Open Cities compatibility patches don't work in the same way as normal patches between say 2 mods that affect the same city, and using an older OC "patch" will simply cancel any update to the mod that's being patched, and potentially break stuff or CTD if something's been deleted from the mod in an update.

Unless the mod was reworked from the ground up in the last 2 years, Open Cities does not load the city interior at all, it uses a copy of the vanilla city that it adds to the Tamriel worldspace.

You could throw as many mods that affect any city worldspace, what'll happen is that Open Cities still won't load the changes those mods do (unless the changes are made to the exterior of the towns, of course).

 

Therefore, OC patches require that one rebuilds all the elements that have been made to the city worldspace directly into the tamriel worldspace. So basically, it's more of a "remaking the entire city mod (except interior cells) but using OC as a master" kind of deal. Navmesh conflicts are completely pointless, since OC should be loaded after anything that might affect the navmesh near city entrances.

I do remember seeing a Tes5edit script that helped immensely with automating OC patching, but I'm not sure if it was one of the default ones, or one by Mator, or even by someone else.

 

Here's an explanation for anyone curious as to how exactly OC works :

Skyrim works using a few worldspaces and a lot of cells. The worldspaces are of the number of 9 or so IIRC

One for skyrim itself (called Tamriel in the game files), one for each city that has a loading screen, and one for every region in the DLCs.

So what open cities does is basically copy the Riften, Solitude, Windhelm, Whiterun and Markarth entire worldspaces into the Skyrim one. It copies the quest markers, the NPC spawners, and everything, plus it changes the doors into functional ones. It also changes all the teleporters from interiors in the cities (think tavern/shop doors) so that when exiting a building, you find yourself in the Skyrim worldspace, and not in Riften's worldspace for instance.

Since city changing mods affect the city worldspaces, any changes done to them will not be read by the game, since it should not have to load the city worldspaces if everything is working correctly.

[Voldearag]

Heya, would one of you clarify a REGS step that I'm stuck on for me?  In the first plugin editing section of the Expanded Towns & Cities install guide I'm instructed to open block 0, -1 and then remove sub-block -2, 2, which isn't inside of 0, -1.  It tripped me up, I'm not sure if the guide meant to tell me to remove sub-block 2, -2 or meant to tell me to look for -2, 2 elsweyr.  It couldn't mean to remove block -1, 0's -2, 2 because it just had me modify that.  Thanks to whoever can tell me what to do.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Voldearag

[locthebard]

Dear "Voldearag"

It is a typo. You want to delete the lower sub-block with 2,-2 in your screen capture. (+)Expand it, and you will see the individual entries for Ivarstead.

 

Dear "Kelmych",

 

I am a returning STEP user  (2.9.1)  and saw your updated REGS.

Great work.

 

wanted to correct https://wiki.step-project.com/Pack:Explorers_Guide/REGS-ETaC_Installation

Unfortunately, it appears there is a restriction to edit the pack wiki, otherwise understandable.

 

I.e.

• all instances of the etac update should refer to latest 14.2.10 rather than 14.2
• align FOMOD tables with current versions on the nexus (i think it's the patches that was different)
• plug-in edit:
  

  Right click on Sub-Block -2,2, select Remove, then left click to remove records for Ivarstead % should be 2,-2 instead

• perhaps move the prerequisite mods in advance, because it is impossible to merge without NSutR a.o.
• ATLAS mod (not mentioned in main guide, but mentioned here) does not work with SkyUI 5.1, only 4.1, so one cannot install the fancy .swf search interface
• plug-in edit: also, i would make the list preceeded by right click-> remove to delete an item (or press del/delete key as per tips recommendation in latest TESVedit), so that the list is shorter and easier to glance through.
• mention that tesmerge (using the tesvedit engine) is an optional tool. the referenced guide in ETAC appears to refer how to merge manually using TESVedit instead
• make it clear as daylight to rename or delete etac-resources.bsa
• addendum for Ckit load/crash errors: my skyrim version came from the dvd and had it installed as such for many years. (Despite having a few morrowind mods under my belt, never felt motivated to fire up the skyrim CS). Consequently, the SkyrimEditor.ini may be missing the required esp/bsa in the resources and archive file
• a few other minor edits to improve readability

 

I'll write again when/(if?) I manage to sucessfully install REGS again with this iteration. If I remember, ETAC is always the hardest part.

Thank you for your hard work.

Edited August 19, 2017 by locthebard

[locthebard]

another thing.

If using MO (Skyrim Mod Organiser),

• after saving the ETAC-Complete.esp in the Creationkit to regenerate the navmeshes,
• ETAC-Complete.esp will be located in the "Overwrite folder" (the overwrite folder is in the parent directory of MO, not under \mods).
• (evident if experienced with MO, but I think since the kit is not used in standard STEP 2.10.0 it should be worth mentioning to the user.)

 

The real problems comes at the next step (editing ETAC patch master dependencies):

• when firing up Wrye Bash,
• it will not recognise the newly generated ETAC-Complete.esp
• it will simply not appear in its mod list

Solution: move ETAC-Complete.esp into "ETaC REGS merged" folder.

 

Problem2:

• ETaC - Karthwasten Taverns Patch.esp  (installed if following current FOMOD instructions) has an error in its esp
• safety solution: do not merge this patch. Went to Karthwasten tavern and did not CTD (crash to desktop), so a good sign.

Edited August 19, 2017 by locthebard

[Kelmych]

Dear "Voldearag"

It is a typo. You want to delete the lower sub-block with 2,-2 in your screen capture. (+)Expand it, and you will see the individual entries for Ivarstead.

 

Dear "Kelmych",

 

I am a returning STEP user  (2.9.1)  and saw your updated REGS.

Great work.

 

wanted to correct https://wiki.step-project.com/Pack:Explorers_Guide/REGS-ETaC_Installation

Unfortunately, it appears there is a restriction to edit the pack wiki, otherwise understandable.

Anyone can edit the wiki, but users need to have entered a minimum number of forum posts. I think the number is 30.

I.e.

• all instances of the etac update should refer to latest 14.2.10 rather than 14.2

The files used are not all 14.2.10. Some changes were made to the pack guide to better identify the versions of each of the files.

• align FOMOD tables with current versions on the nexus (i think it's the patches that was different)

The FOMOD instructions for the modular patches is based on version 14.2.8. Which part had an error? A note was added mentioning that mods need to be installed before installing the ETaC modular patches if the mod is getting an ETaC related patch.

• plug-in edit:

  Right click on Sub-Block -2,2, select Remove, then left click to remove records for Ivarstead % should be 2,-2 instead

Thanks. fixed

• perhaps move the prerequisite mods in advance, because it is impossible to merge without NSutR a.o.

I don't understand the comment. How does NSuTR affect the ETaC installation?

• ATLAS mod (not mentioned in main guide, but mentioned here) does not work with SkyUI 5.1, only 4.1, so one cannot install the fancy .swf search interface

I use Atlas Map Markers with SkyUI 5.1. If Atlas Map Markers is being used two mods need to be installed, the original Atlas Map Markers and Atlas Map Markers - Updated with MCM . Atlas Map Markers was added to the Enhancement mods section since it is likely that most users of REGS will want to use it.

• plug-in edit: also, i would make the list preceeded by right click-> remove to delete an item (or press del/delete key as per tips recommendation in latest TESVedit), so that the list is shorter and easier to glance through.

this will be added

• mention that tesmerge (using the tesvedit engine) is an optional tool. the referenced guide in ETAC appears to refer how to merge manually using TESVedit instead.

the instructions in the ETaC Nexus page for merging are based on using the older ''Merge Plugins xEdit Script''. The author (Mator) recommends using the newer "Merge Plugins" standalone tool for any merges. This pack guide uses the newer  ''Merge Plugins''. Some additional comments were added in the REGS guide to try to clarify the instructions on the ETaC Nexus page.

• make it clear as daylight to rename or delete etac-resources.bsa

an additional label was added to the instruction which said to unpack the BSA when installing. This automatically deletes the BSA.

• addendum for Ckit load/crash errors: my skyrim version came from the dvd and had it installed as such for many years. (Despite having a few morrowind mods under my belt, never felt motivated to fire up the skyrim CS). Consequently, the SkyrimEditor.ini may be missing the required esp/bsa in the resources and archive file

a comment on the CK ini file for this was added

• a few other minor edits to improve readability

 

I'll write again when/(if?) I manage to sucessfully install REGS again with this iteration. If I remember, ETAC is always the hardest part.

Thank you for your hard work.

[Kelmych]

 

another thing.

If using MO (Skyrim Mod Organiser),

• after saving the ETAC-Complete.esp in the Creationkit to regenerate the navmeshes,
• ETAC-Complete.esp will be located in the "Overwrite folder" (the overwrite folder is in the parent directory of MO, not under \mods).
• (evident if experienced with MO, but I think since the kit is not used in standard STEP 2.10.0 it should be worth mentioning to the user.)

A comment about this was added to the REGS guide

 

The real problems comes at the next step (editing ETAC patch master dependencies):

• when firing up Wrye Bash,
• it will not recognise the newly generated ETAC-Complete.esp
• it will simply not appear in its mod list

Solution: move ETAC-Complete.esp into "ETaC REGS merged" folder.

 

Problem2:

• ETaC - Karthwasten Taverns Patch.esp  (installed if following current FOMOD instructions) has an error in its esp

It's should be safe to remove the bad record. Sometime I'll look at previous ETaC modular patches and see if this plugin had the same problem previously. In any case this plugin was one of the three plugins that the REGS guide states should not be included in the overall ETaC patch merge since it has a NAVI record.

• safety solution: do not merge this patch. Went to Karthwasten tavern and did not CTD (crash to desktop), so a good sign.

 

[locthebard]

Great stuff.

 

The files used are not all 14.2.10. The FOMOD instructions for the modular patches is based on version 14.2.8 Failed to notice, sorry. But thanks for the minor edit. What I would do for those complicated section is have a bullet point pre-flight checklist in between steps, or better yet separate long phrases into digestible "point and grunt".

NSutR+ ETAC: I was mid-way through REGS when i had written that comment. Seeing how the merge patches are in the end-> redundant. Still, may be worth reminding that there is no need to fret about those and can be disabled till later.

 

Atlas Map Markers with SkyUI 5.1  interesting. i'll try. Despite the error message, it did seem to work. Failing that, I remember MCM warnings being supressible.

instruction which said to unpack the BSA when installing. This automatically deletes the BSA   . Hm. I have used MO to unpack bsa, and temporarily renamed it. I don't know of other tools that do it automatically.

 

"Problem 2": not really a problem if one RTFM... sorry to waste your time.

 

In my install notes, made the following markings as well:

• (comment) after install, i have 6 unmerged patches tied to REGS, 3 of which are mentioned in ETAC is being rather complicated to merge. The other 3: (imersivecitizens - RRR) (settlements expanded -inns and tabverns) (inconsequential NPCs - CRF)
• CWI - books - STEP 2.10.0 uses desaturated
• sky haven temple merchants and more -- i found it confusing which version to pick, but that may be because it was 2 am
• Gray Cowl of Nocturnal Alikr Flora Overhaul -- audio spaces fix no longer required for director's cut version i think (didn't check with tesedit), no mention necessary?
• Grey fox patches section -- could not locate edit 0400F46F
  TESedit ITM record:
  Removing: [REFR:0100F46F] (places manny_GF_DesertRockPileL02Sand [sTAT:0100353F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:012004B1] (in manny_GF_Desert "Alik'r desert" [WRLD:01200000] at 24,18))
  Removing: manny_GF_WildRuins01 [CELL:0120061D] (in manny_GF_Desert "Alik'r desert" [WRLD:01200000] at 14,24)
  Removing: manny_GF_BenEraiMountainSide02 [CELL:012002DB] (in manny_GF_Desert "Alik'r desert" [WRLD:01200000] at 13,11)
  Removing: [CELL:012003CF] (in manny_GF_Desert "Alik'r desert" [WRLD:01200000] at 7,15)
   
• ELE version: 0.9.5b -- obviously incompatible with STEP-specific version - I installed FS+ WT plug-in only.
• dreadflopps patches: xx__CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive__Relighting Skyrim.esp -- Relighting Skyrim is not used in REGS
• merge patches: Realistic Water 2: (I think) Wyrmstooth had 2 ITMs.

 

That's all i could come up for now. I had a wee playthorugh before going to bed. Dawnstar was stable, albeit some fps drop (nvidia 1060), Windhelm docks had huge macrostutter (NVME SSD) and eventually CTD. Not a malloc issue. Possibly wrong patch/load order.

Edited August 20, 2017 by locthebard