DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 190

[z929669]

  On 9/30/2021 at 11:19 PM, DoubleYou said:

Presets like this are sub-optimal, as any mod-added rules are ignored, and any updated rules by Sheson would also be ignored. It is better to share individual rules or include them as mod-added rules. STEP 2.0 is incomplete, and we have chosen to use mod-added rules to make it far easier to apply.

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From the documentation and sheson's last comment on this ("Anybody uploading presets for guides should remove the outputpath line"), I believe that the rules are layered. So if a higher-priority path defines a mesh mask same as that of a lower priority path, the higher priority wins. Any new rules sheson adds to a preset should be highest priority, since no others exist.

Also, If a more specific mesh mask applies at lower priority, I think that it would supersede a more general one at higher priority.

I am thinking that priority is defined by ini file path AND LODGen# within each file. I am not clear on how this line numbering behaves between files though ... if our custom rules use LODGen1-LODGen3, then they should be higher priority than same rules defined at LODGen11-LODGen13 in a lower-priority path.

Also from the doc, I see that [Skyrim LODGen] section is the default, so I am assuming that if we stripped everything out of our supplied general (not mod-specific) presets except the rules we are specifying, this should combine with but supersede the 'default' preset shipped with DynDOLOD. I think naming this like DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini should work without tying it to any specific mod. Content (our custom rules) would be like:

[Skyrim LODGen]
LODGen1=mountains,Level0,Level0,Level1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,
LODGen2=\rocks0,None,None,None,None,None,Unchanged,1,
LODGen3=treeaspen,Billboard4,Billboard4,Billboard1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,

@sheson Can you correct me if I have any of this wrong?
 

 

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 1:24 PM, z929669 said:

From the documentation and sheson's last comment on this ("Anybody uploading presets for guides should remove the outputpath line"), I believe that the rules are layered. So if a higher-priority path defines a mesh mask same as that of a lower priority path, the higher priority wins. Any new rules sheson adds to a preset should be highest priority, since no others exist.

Also, If a more specific mesh mask applies at lower priority, I think that it would supersede a more general one at higher priority.

I am thinking that priority is defined by ini file path AND LODGen# within each file. I am not clear on how this line numbering behaves between files though ... if our custom rules use LODGen1-LODGen3, then they should be higher priority than same rules defined at LODGen11-LODGen13 in a lower-priority path.

Also from the doc, I see that [Skyrim LODGen] section is the default, so I am assuming that if we stripped everything out of our supplied general (not mod-specific) presets except the rules we are specifying, this should combine with but supersede the 'default' preset shipped with DynDOLOD. I think naming this like DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini should work without tying it to any specific mod. Content (our custom rules) would be like:

[Skyrim LODGen]
LODGen1=mountains,Level0,Level0,Level1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,
LODGen2=\rocks0,None,None,None,None,None,Unchanged,1,
LODGen3=treeaspen,Billboard4,Billboard4,Billboard1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,

@sheson Can you correct me if I have any of this wrong?

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If a presets is loaded manually (or the default preset from last run automatically) its rules and settings will be used.

Rules files are only loaded when using low, medium (default), high are clicked. This will always delete the currently shown rules.

Enable notice=1 in the DynDOLOD INI to see message for all rules being printed to the log message window to see the exact order of rule files being loaded. Or check the debug log after the fact.

The order loading the rule files defines their order in the list.

The order LODGen1, 2, 3 of rules in the files defines their "local" order in the the list.

Rules for plugins are loaded in the order of the plugins.

If a rule that is loaded later has the exact same mesh mask or targets the same reference form id, it will replace the already existing rule.

Plugin rule files in Edit Scripts are superseded by rule files with the same name in Data\DynDOLOD\

 

Whatever setting does not exist in the [DynDOLOD] or [TexGen] section will simply stay as it was.

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 1:23 PM, EazyH said:

Currently using Ft Dawnguard HD & Chantry College. The college causes fancy glass doors which *would* normally conflict with Dawnguard. Ft Dawnguard HD Comes with a door plug-in that changes there texture path and everything so this shouldn’t be a problem.

But TexGen created LOD textures showing the glass door. I made sure no other records were overwriting the new door paths, so I am at a bit of a loss

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Which DynDOLOD/TexGen version are you using?

[z929669]

  On 10/1/2021 at 1:44 PM, sheson said:

If a presets is loaded manually (or the default preset from last run automatically) its rules and settings will be used.

Rules files are only loaded when using low, medium (default), high are clicked. This will always delete the currently shown rules.

Enable notice=1 in the DynDOLOD INI to see message for all rules being printed to the log message window to see the exact order of rule files being loaded. Or check the debug log after the fact.

The order loading the rule files defines their order in the list.

The order LODGen1, 2, 3 of rules in the files defines their "local" order in the the list.

Rules for plugins are loaded in the order of the plugins.

If a rule that is loaded later has the exact same mesh mask or targets the same reference form id, it will replace the already existing rule.

Plugin rule files in Edit Scripts are superseded by rule files with the same name in Data\DynDOLOD\

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Very useful specifics ... however, I want to be sure that these are NOT corrections to my post but more information that can be used to confirm assumptions.

I did not mention clicking on high/medium/low buttons, and I did see this in the doc:

  Quote

Rules are applied when clicking the low, medium or high buttons. The message window will print a line for each rule file it loaded.

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... are you saying that NO rules will be applied (regardless of path) if these buttons are NOT clicked (even custom rules)?

This statement from the doc:

  Quote

DynDOLOD.exe reads mesh rule from ini files that adhere to a simple file naming convention. Any non alpha numeric character is stripped from the mods filename and then changed to DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp].ini. To supply different rules for low, medium or high presets use DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_low.ini, DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_medium.ini or DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_high.ini.

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... implies (IMO) that a rule file lacking *_low|medium|high.ini suffix is applied independently of whether or not any of the presets are clicked (or when ANY of the presents are clicked?).

Was anything I posted just flat-out wrong? No need to explain why if so, since there are ways to verify as  you mentioned. It would just be helpful to me and possibly onlookers if you specify any incorrect assumptions in my post so that I can correct once I know for sure ... to block any misinformation.

[EazyH]

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:02 PM, sheson said:

Which DynDOLOD/TexGen version are you using?

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Using 3.0, I would need to get home to check for the exact version number, though it’s very recent 

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:02 PM, z929669 said:

... are you saying that NO rules will be applied (regardless of path) if these buttons are NOT clicked (even custom rules)?

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From ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\Advanced.html

Once the OK button is clicked, the current settings are saved as a preset to ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Presets\DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE]_Default.ini for the next time DynDOLOD is started.

Low, Medium or High Preset Buttons
Clicking any of the presets buttons will load mesh and reference rules.
Any custom rules will be replaced.

This is how it works since the beginning.

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:02 PM, z929669 said:

... implies (IMO) that a rule file lacking *_low|medium|high.ini suffix is applied independently of whether or not any of the presets are clicked (or when ANY of the presents are clicked?).

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Read the first sentence of the section "How to add rules for your own mod" you are quoting that from:
Rules are applied when clicking the low, medium or high buttons. The message window will print a line for each rule file it loaded.

What changed in DynDOLOD 3 is that, that such notices are only printed to the debug log.

 

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:02 PM, z929669 said:

Was anything I posted just flat-out wrong? 

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Depends on how you define lower/higher priority for mesh masks.

A more specific mesh mask needs to listed before/higher in the list than a simpler mesh mask. 

The most simplest mesh mask that matches everything is "/". That is why it is last.

[EazyH]

  On 10/1/2021 at 1:22 PM, sheson said:

The Requirements for DynDOLOD are listed on the first post and the included manual.

Read the manual Overwrite/Load orders. As it explains, refer to the install instructions of  the mod.

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I will read again, but I don’t remember any mention of exactly what I should do with the plug-in and it’s records. Before 3.0, the plugin was supposed to go all the way at the bottom. And there were less issues of matching LOD since Noble was the go-to, having its own LOD. Now that other files may have their own LOD, I don’t want the plug-in overwriting my loose files 

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:20 PM, EazyH said:

Using 3.0, I would need to get home to check for the exact version number, though it’s very recent 

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Read the first post, which explains to post any question or feedback in this DynDOLDO 3 alpha thread.

Read the first post what log files to upload when making posts.

If asking questions about mods, it would be nice to link to the mods.

If asking questions about a specific LOD asset file, it would be nice to actually provide the path/filename to that exact file in question. Or a screenshot of stuff in game, one for the LOD, one with the full model  and console open to show its form id.

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:24 PM, EazyH said:

I will read again, but I don’t remember any mention of exactly what I should do with the plug-in and it’s records. Before 3.0, the plugin was supposed to go all the way at the bottom. And there were less issues of matching LOD since Noble was the go-to, having its own LOD. Now that other files may have their own LOD, I don’t want the plug-in overwriting my loose files 

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Plugins do not overwrite loose meshes or texture files. 

Typically LOD assets should overwrite in the same order as the full model/texture they belong to.

As explained - and none of this ever changed - generated output always overwrites everything.

[z929669]

  On 10/1/2021 at 2:20 PM, sheson said:

From ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\Advanced.html

Once the OK button is clicked, the current settings are saved as a preset to ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\Presets\DynDOLOD_[GAMEMODE]_Default.ini for the next time DynDOLOD is started.

Low, Medium or High Preset Buttons
Clicking any of the presets buttons will load mesh and reference rules.
Any custom rules will be replaced.

This is how it works since the beginning.

Read the first sentence of the section "How to add rules for your own mod" you are quoting that from:
Rules are applied when clicking the low, medium or high buttons. The message window will print a line for each rule file it loaded.

What changed in DynDOLOD 3 is that, that such notices are only printed to the debug log.

 

Depends on how you define lower/higher priority for mesh masks.

A more specific mesh mask needs to listed before/higher in the list than a simpler mesh mask. 

The most simplest mesh mask that matches everything is "/". That is why it is last.

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As usual all good info, so thanks for that. Still want to know if these rules will be read (not necessarily applied if superseded) regardless of whether or not I load a preset or click low/medium/high (or ONLY if I also use a preset, or not at all because this method is wrong):

Create DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini with following content and place it anywhere in my mod list (or must it be tied to a specific plugin name?):

[Skyrim LODGen]
LODGen1=mountains,Level0,Level0,Level1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,
LODGen2=\rocks0,None,None,None,None,None,Unchanged,1,
LODGen3=treeaspen,Billboard4,Billboard4,Billboard1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,

 

[sheson]

  On 10/1/2021 at 3:02 PM, z929669 said:

As usual all good info, so thanks for that. Still want to know if these rules will be read (not necessarily applied if superseded) regardless of whether or not I load a preset or click low/medium/high (or ONLY if I also use a preset):

Create DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini with following content and place it anywhere in my mod list (or must it be tied to a specific plugin name?):

[Skyrim LODGen]
LODGen1=mountains,Level0,Level0,Level1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,
LODGen2=\rocks0,None,None,None,None,None,Unchanged,1,
LODGen3=treeaspen,Billboard4,Billboard4,Billboard1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,

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You can only do that by matching plugin names in the load order.

[DoubleYou]

  On 10/1/2021 at 3:02 PM, z929669 said:

As usual all good info, so thanks for that. Still want to know if these rules will be read (not necessarily applied if superseded) regardless of whether or not I load a preset or click low/medium/high (or ONLY if I also use a preset, or not at all because this method is wrong):

Create DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini with following content and place it anywhere in my mod list (or must it be tied to a specific plugin name?):

[Skyrim LODGen]
LODGen1=mountains,Level0,Level0,Level1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,
LODGen2=\rocks0,None,None,None,None,None,Unchanged,1,
LODGen3=treeaspen,Billboard4,Billboard4,Billboard1,None,FarLOD,Unchanged,1,

 

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Mod added rules will not be applied if you load a preset. You MUST click the low/medium/high buttons to load any changed rules. Presets only apply the rules in the preset. Nothing more, nothing less. This is why I advocate against supplying presets, as any mod added rules, or updated rules in subsequent DynDOLOD updates, will not be applied. Otherwise we would need to check that the preset is still correct after any update to mod added rules or DynDOLOD rules. 

DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini is incorrect. It must be DynDOLOD_SSE_pluginnamestrippedofallcharactersthatarenotalphanumericesp.ini. Use the rules I provided in the Discord channel. 

[z929669]

  On 10/1/2021 at 4:46 PM, DoubleYou said:

Mod added rules will not be applied if you load a preset. You MUST click the low/medium/high buttons to load any changed rules. Presets only apply the rules in the preset. Nothing more, nothing less. This is why I advocate against supplying presets, as any mod added rules, or updated rules in subsequent DynDOLOD updates, will not be applied. Otherwise we would need to check that the preset is still correct after any update to mod added rules or DynDOLOD rules. 

DynDOLOD_SSE_{whateverWeLike}.ini is incorrect. It must be DynDOLOD_SSE_pluginnamestrippedofallcharactersthatarenotalphanumericesp.ini. Use the rules I provided in the Discord channel. 

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I didn't see those words in the doc. I think the doc is more/less saying that the GUI rules will replace any custom rules applied via the GUI window. From my understanding, plugin-loaded rules will apply regardless.

Perhaps it was posted explicitly here, or I missed those words in the doc?

  Quote

Low, Medium or High Preset Buttons
Clicking any of the presets buttons will load mesh and reference rules.
Any custom rules (added to the rules editor in the GUI) will be replaced.

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I added this

EDIT: But totally agree that we shouldn't be supplying preset files that user loads via the GUI

[DoubleYou]

  On 10/1/2021 at 4:55 PM, z929669 said:

I didn't see those words in the doc. I think the doc is more/less saying that the GUI rules will replace any custom rules applied via the GUI window. From my understanding, plugin-loaded rules will apply regardless.

Perhaps it was posted explicitly here, or I missed those words in the doc?

I added this

EDIT: But totally agree that we shouldn't be supplying preset files that user loads via the GUI

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You need to check the Mod Authors doc. It specifically states that they are applied with the low/medium/high buttons. 

[z929669]

  On 10/1/2021 at 5:21 PM, DoubleYou said:

You need to check the Mod Authors doc. It specifically states that they are applied with the low/medium/high buttons. 

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I did, but again, it's not necessarily stating this:

  Quote

 

How to add rules for your own mod

Rules are applied (to the GUI window) when clicking the low, medium or high buttons. The message window will print a line for each rule file it loaded.

Rules shipping with DynDOLOD are in 'DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\rules\'. In addition DynDOLOD.exe first searches for matching rule files in the game folder 'Data\DynDOLOD'. This way a mod author can package rule files directly with a mod. Rules found in 'Data\DynDOLOD' supersede rules found in 'DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\rules\' with the same filename.

DynDOLOD.exe reads mesh rule from ini files that adhere to a simple file naming convention. Any non alpha numeric character is stripped from the mods filename and then changed to DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp].ini. To supply different rules for low, medium or high presets use DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_low.ini, DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_medium.ini or DynDOLOD_[modfilenameesp]_high.ini.

 

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I added this

Maybe no rules are read from anywhere, including mods without clicking low/medium/high in the GUI, but that would be a faulty implementation I believe. It's not foolproof. Loading a preset does not require clicking one of those buttons, so plugin-loaded rules would still need to be loaded.

Maybe I'm being dense ... wouldn't be the first time