GUIDE [WIP] DDSopt & Texture Overhauls

[z929669]

Discussion thread:
DDSopt Guide by STEP
Wiki Link

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GET DDSopt:
Github Pre-release versions
Official Nexus versions (select pre-release update 4)

[dstansberry]

And while we're on the subject:

 

1) Is it better to pick a higher resolution texture and DDSopt it down, or to pick the lower resolution to begin with?

2) One area in which the DDSopt optimization process appears to give HUGE results is when dealing with facegen textures in assorted mods. Which begs the question, SHOULD they be optimized? The size savings is almost too good to seem... healthy?

[Wormheart]

Facegen textures often get reduced to a 1x1 pixel image, that is why they end up smaller. DDSOpt only shrinks them if every colour is the same so you don't lose anything, however the CS whines when it encounters these textures so I usually don't keep them.

[Kelmych]

I haven't tried optimizing Fallout texture files with DDSopt. DDS is a Microsoft file format so it may be possible to optimize Fallout textures with DDSopt. There is a version of Optimizer Textures for Fallout New Vegas, but I haven't looked to see how it differs from the Skyrim version.

 

BSA files for Bethesda games have different formats for each game, so if you are going to try to optimize Fallout textures with DDSopt make sure they are loose files.

[EssArrBee]

I was unaware about the BSA formats, thank you for bringing that to my attention before I did a whole bunch of packing/unpacking with DDSopt.

 

So would it be best to use FoMM to extract and pack the BSAs? Then just optimize the loose files with DDSopt, because I looked at BSAopt and it supports Fallout 3. I did run some of the unpacked BSAs from FNV through DDSopt and they only gained about 40MB for all the textures including DLCs. NMC, which is just textures and a few meshes so DDSopt shouldn't have an issue, was reduced by over 900MB.

 

I guess I'll go to the nexus or beth forums to try and ask Etathron about the extent of support for other games.

[Kelmych]

And while we're on the subject:

 

1) Is it better to pick a higher resolution texture and DDSopt it down, or to pick the lower resolution to begin with?

 

 

If the mod has multiple resolutions available then it should be better to select the one with proper resolution. It depends on how the mod author created the lower resolution textures; if they were done with a high quality tool then they are preferable (of course, you typically have no way of knowing this). DDSopt also recreates all the mipmaps, and the ones it creates are better than those of many of the texture creation tools.

 

One way that DDSopt can increase file size is when the original textures don't have all the mipmaps needed; DDSOpt will add the missing ones. By the way, there is some discussion of this in the DDSopt Technical FAQ.

[Kelmych]

Ethatron has been inactive on most forums for a while since he started a new job earlier this year.

 

I don't think it matters which tool you use to extract the files from BSAs; I'd use whichever one takes the least time including the UI parameter entry.

[EssArrBee]

Yeah I found this from him in an old thread:

There is nothing specifically in it which takes care of the other games specific quirks. It works on any DDS, but only on O and S/F/NV BSAs (no Morrowind).If specific textures are not in gamma-space for NV fe. you'll likely get sub-optimal results.

Looks like it works for everything except Morrowind, which just needs to be extracted by something else before optimizing.

[dstansberry]

And while we're on the subject:

 

1) Is it better to pick a higher resolution texture and DDSopt it down, or to pick the lower resolution to begin with?

 

If the mod has multiple resolutions available then it should be better to select the one with proper resolution. It depends on how the mod author created the lower resolution textures; if they were done with a high quality tool then they are preferable (of course, you typically have no way of knowing this). DDSopt also recreates all the mipmaps, and the ones it creates are better than those of many of the texture creation tools.

 

One way that DDSopt can increase file size is when the original textures don't have all the mipmaps needed; DDSOpt will add the missing ones. By the way, there is some discussion of this in the DDSopt Technical FAQ.

Thank you for the input - and the link. I'll check it out. I'm considering reinstalling and re-optimizing the texture packs with a resolution cap in place, and following the suggestions I've seen here and elsewhere regarding halving the size of the normals. My poor li'l PC (i7 3770, GTX670 4GB, 16GB RAM) can't seem to make it into Riverwood from Helgen!

[Aiyen]

Finished my testing of Markarth. I get nowhere near 3Gb in those cells. Tried directly outside the city, and inside the city, and some houses. All working fine and staying well below the limits.

 

As Fcqt says, try to reduce or get the 1k version of SRO instead. That will bring you down by quite a bit. ¨

In general I agree with this RAM usage numbers. Mine are overall a bit lower because I just reduced most of my AV ones to 1k to compensate for the stress SkyTEST puts on the load.

[Setis]

Thanks for the Windhelm Test FCqt, I've been able to reliably test with that. Still hitting the limit so I'll have to see what else I can pare down.

[FCqt]

I forgot to mention one big thing.

 

If you are not using Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized by Vano89 (Hybrid + Vanilla Normal Maps),

I'm pretty sure you will never make the 3GB cut unless you make huge sacrifice over several mods.

 

You can also try disableing Book Cover for interiors performance if u struggle there but it shouldnt be an issue with Hi-Res DLC Optimized.

[Setis]

That seemed to help.  My memory is still running dangerously high (makes me nervous!), but I did several laps of that Windhelm test and did not crash.  I'm probably skirting right on the edge.

[Kelmych]

Thanks for finding this; I was never sure what BSAopt and DDSopt would do with Fallout BSA and texture files. I added this to the DDSopt guide.

[EssArrBee]

I don't think the guide lists how to edit the ini to ignore textures, is that something that you would like to handle on your own so it is done properly? or just haven't updated with that info yet?

 

So far I've found 4 files that DDSopt doesn't do so well with optimizaiton:

 

\textures\landscape\waterplanemuckpool.dds

\textures\landscape\waterplanemuckpool_n.dds

\textures\pipboy3000\screen.dds

\textures\pipboy3000\screen_n.dds

 

They are small files 16x16 and 64x64 that are reduced to 1x1

 

EDIT: messed up spacing

[z929669]

I don't think the guide lists how to edit the ini to ignore textures, is that something that you would like to handle on your own so it is done properly? or just haven't updated with that info yet?

 

So far I've found 4 files that DDSopt doesn't do so well with optimizaiton:

 

\textures\landscape\waterplanemuckpool.dds

\textures\landscape\waterplanemuckpool_n.dds

\textures\pipboy3000\screen.dds

\textures\pipboy3000\screen_n.dds

 

They are small files 16x16 and 64x64 that are reduced to 1x1

 

EDIT: messed up spacing

DDSopt will reduce large monochromatic textures to 1x1. I cannot find those you refer to to check, but can you confirm?