Good Performance Hunting

[stoppingby4now]

I'm seeing seem lines in some rocks, and nearly everything having an outline, differing between more black, and sometimes more white. Especially on some of the rocks, it looks odd. What settings are you using?

[Mardread]

I reduced my AA in game from 4 to 2, that is probably why you are seeing a little bit of jagged lines. Not really noticeable when running around in game. The outline, I haven't figured out yet. I do not know what causes it as I have had it since the game came out. I am thinking it has something to do with shadows, so if anyone has any good shadow settings they want to share, that would be great.

---

Fixed the AA back to 4. Damn you got a good eye, this of course reduced my FPS. Upload a shot in a second.

 

Shot #7

 

I was correct about the blur, it is because I have iBlurDeferredShadowMask set to 4 to soften the shadows. Reducing to 0 removes it, but the shadows look horrible.

[whistlerxp]

Can you please explain why is Sparse Grid supersampling is better than ordinary one?

[stoppingby4now]

Yeah, one my biggest beef with the game is their shadows. I set iBlurDeferredShadowMask to 0 as well. I'll have to look up what shadow settings I'm using later. I can live with them when running around and focusing on other content, but just standing there taking in the scenery...belch.

[frihyland]

Can you please explain why is Sparse Grid supersampling is better than ordinary one?

 

The technical details are here

[z929669]

As we all know STEP is mainly about modding Skyrim up to look as yummy as possible, but that comes at a cost even for the highest end PC rigs.

Here is a space to add in all those little tricks and tweaks we use to (re)gain that lost FPS and counter that stutter - there has been extensive chatter on this topic in previous forums so it may be appropriate to bring some of that knowledge over here.

 

@zMan On the topic of our previous talk about using DDSopt to 'correct' and reduce the VRAM load of textures. Have you seen this? Optimizer_Textures?

I'm testing it now (medium setting with resize @ >1024) as I had only run the vanilla and HD DLC through DDSopt previously. It is certainly less intimidating for newer users than the other option. I wondered if you could see any flaws in its implimentation?

 

Ethatron finally got back to me on Optimizer Textures. My post to him is just previous to that. It looks like OT offers a "subset" of DDSopt functionality. I will still test, but if this is the case, then OT is achieving its value by basically choosing lower mips when downsizing resolution (in addition so some other things like DDSopt), which is confirmed to be less than desirable and basically defeats the purpose of the high res textures in the first place (unless reduction is still higher res than vanilla, but this is iffy). Better to get the mod author's low res 2x versions (as opposed to 4x hi-res).

[Bealdwine]

 

As we all know STEP is mainly about modding Skyrim up to look as yummy as possible, but that comes at a cost even for the highest end PC rigs.

Here is a space to add in all those little tricks and tweaks we use to (re)gain that lost FPS and counter that stutter - there has been extensive chatter on this topic in previous forums so it may be appropriate to bring some of that knowledge over here.

 

@zMan On the topic of our previous talk about using DDSopt to 'correct' and reduce the VRAM load of textures. Have you seen this? Optimizer_Textures?

I'm testing it now (medium setting with resize @ >1024) as I had only run the vanilla and HD DLC through DDSopt previously. It is certainly less intimidating for newer users than the other option. I wondered if you could see any flaws in its implimentation?

 

Ethatron finally got back to me on Optimizer Textures. My post to him is just previous to that. It looks like OT offers a "subset" of DDSopt functionality. I will still test, but if this is the case, then OT is achieving its value by basically choosing lower mips when downsizing resolution (in addition so some other things like DDSopt), which is confirmed to be less than desirable and basically defeats the purpose of the high res textures in the first place (unless reduction is still higher res than vanilla, but this is iffy). Better to get the mod author's low res 2x versions (as opposed to 4x hi-res).

 

 

 

Interesting read, but 'Whoooosh' much of it way over my head, lol. I'm still trying to assess how significant any optimisation is in performance terms, and becoming more doubtful in the process.

Thanks for following through on this though zMan.

[z929669]

 

 

As we all know STEP is mainly about modding Skyrim up to look as yummy as possible, but that comes at a cost even for the highest end PC rigs.

Here is a space to add in all those little tricks and tweaks we use to (re)gain that lost FPS and counter that stutter - there has been extensive chatter on this topic in previous forums so it may be appropriate to bring some of that knowledge over here.

 

@zMan On the topic of our previous talk about using DDSopt to 'correct' and reduce the VRAM load of textures. Have you seen this? Optimizer_Textures?

I'm testing it now (medium setting with resize @ >1024) as I had only run the vanilla and HD DLC through DDSopt previously. It is certainly less intimidating for newer users than the other option. I wondered if you could see any flaws in its implimentation?

 

Ethatron finally got back to me on Optimizer Textures. My post to him is just previous to that. It looks like OT offers a "subset" of DDSopt functionality. I will still test, but if this is the case, then OT is achieving its value by basically choosing lower mips when downsizing resolution (in addition so some other things like DDSopt), which is confirmed to be less than desirable and basically defeats the purpose of the high res textures in the first place (unless reduction is still higher res than vanilla, but this is iffy). Better to get the mod author's low res 2x versions (as opposed to 4x hi-res).

 

 

 

Interesting read, but 'Whoooosh' much of it way over my head, lol. I'm still trying to assess how significant any optimisation is in performance terms, and becoming more doubtful in the process.

Thanks for following through on this though zMan.

 

 

 

No problem... I should qualify a bit more though:

 

I personally recommend (as if that means anything at all :? ) that anybody trying to maximize performance/aesthetic tradeoff ought to use the "low-res" options whenever available by a mod author ("low res" is almost ALWAYS 2x vanilla resolution, so it is quite good). THEN (at this moment) I recommend processing these textures using predefined compression constraints in DDSopt when applicable (I have yet to formally define "predefined constraints" and "when applicable" but intend to do so in the updated DDSopt guide).

 

Further, DO NOT get the hi-res equivalents and REDUCE their resolution using DDSopt, OT or any other tool. This will undoubtedly improve performance, but it will also largely obviate all the work that went into modding with texture enhancements in the first place. (although it is arguably still a bit better than vanilla).

 

HTH

 

EDIT: If you have a powerful rig and a display adapter with at least 2 Gb of VRAM capacity, all the above apply, BUT you should be using those hi-res, 4x textures

[venkman781]

No problem... I should qualify a bit more though:

 

I personally recommend (as if that means anything at all :?) that anybody trying to maximize performance ought to use the "low-res" options whenever available by a mod author ("low res" is almost ALWAYS 2x vanilla resolution, so it is quite good). THEN (at this moment) I recommend processing these textures using predefined compression constraints in DDSopt when applicable (I have yet to formally define "predefined constraints" and "when applicable" but intend to do so in the updated DDSopt guide).

 

Further, DO NOT get the hi-res equivalents and REDUCE their resolution using DDSopt, OT or any other tool. This will undoubtedly improve performance, but it will also largely obviate all the work that went into modding with texture enhancements in the first place. (although it is arguably still a bit better than vanilla).

 

HTH

 

Thanks for this guidance, z. I've definitely opted for the high res textures in my current STEP setup, and honestly did so without consideration for how that impacts VRAM usage. I'll have to go back and see where I can slim down, especially for textures used in landscapes, outdoors, etc. Look forward to the updated DDSopt guide, as I have yet to optimize my textures and will probably do so once I see where TC lands in the new STEP guide and the dust settles a bit.

[stoppingby4now]

@zMan

I do a mixture of the two, usually opting for 4X resolution in landscape, and lower res options for clutter. What kind of results would be seen if running DDSOpt against the 4X textures? Is there any kind of quality drop? Would it be better to just get the 2X and optimize those?

[z929669]

@zMan

I do a mixture of the two, usually opting for 4X resolution in landscape, and lower res options for clutter. What kind of results would be seen if running DDSOpt against the 4X textures? Is there any kind of quality drop? Would it be better to just get the 2X and optimize those?

 

 

Short answer is 'Yes'

 

Using the ideal DDSopt settings, there should be benefit to processing 4x textures and higher as well, as compression will be optimized, redundancies will be deleted, and mip levels will be optimized.

 

The key is not to reduce by constraining resolution (always leave at 8192x8192)... Ideal DDSopt settings, confirmed by Ethatron

[Bealdwine]

 

@zMan

I do a mixture of the two, usually opting for 4X resolution in landscape, and lower res options for clutter. What kind of results would be seen if running DDSOpt against the 4X textures? Is there any kind of quality drop? Would it be better to just get the 2X and optimize those?

 

 

Short answer is 'Yes'

 

Using the ideal DDSopt settings, there should be benefit to processing 4x textures and higher as well, as compression will be optimized, redundancies will be deleted, and mip levels will be optimized.

 

The key is not to reduce by constraining resolution (always leave at 8192x8192)... Ideal DDSopt settings, confirmed by Ethatron

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, saved it to my DDSopt folder for ref. Surprised he uses the 'lossy' options but he's way ahead of me in understanding texture compression.

[Bealdwine]

It's been a strange afternoon

 

Now that BOSS is finally back with us I decided to bite the bullet, update to 1.5 patch and get a fresh reinstall sorted.

 

It's primarily STEP, although not the full list, with some additions I've been hoarding ready to try. I might bore you with a full listing at the end if you're unlucky :p

 

So off I trundle happily pruning things back and downloading from Steam until I had an 'almost' vanilla setup (BOSS, SKSE, SD, SkyUI and Immersive_HUD included as essentials).

Unfortunately I forgot at that point to check my FPS but ho hum.

 

Then as usual I added in my Skyrim_HR DDSopt'd 7zip and popped in for an FPS count. Disappointingly but not really surprisingly I was getting about 10-15 FPS

I added in the non-texture mods, Unofficial Patch, etc and tried again, 10-15 FPS ...okaaay lets go for it. So in went WATER as it's one of my favorites and Vurt's ditto, plus Lush Grass... retest = 10-15 FPS. Hmmm.

 

Right, getting bored now and I can always deactivate with WB if I have to do some in-depth scrutiny so I joyfully dump all the rest in expecting to finally grind to a halt and... 10-15 FPS. Wut!?!?

 

Now that's including RCRN which I couldn't resist trying (although I needed to tone down the contrast a bit with Imaginator) and all the texture mods I use (admtedly mostly lite versions except things like WATER, Realistic Smoke and Embers, Vurt's).

 

It puzzles me to say the least - of course by the time I get a good rain storm and/or into the heart of Whiterun that figure will doubtless drop to 5-10 :P but it has left me with doubts about all the effort I put in to care and attention for performance sake if I can't even pinpoint specific mods as resource/VRAM hogs.

 

As an aside, I also tried running Game Booster 3 on the full install and the result for that was... nothing, nada, zilch: 10-15 FPS

 

Bain Packages as threatened ;) :

 

 

++ 000 - Skyrim-HRTextures.7z (6B313B4F) (Installed)

++ 001 - Immersive_HUD_v_1_4_-_Fixed_Installer-3222-1-4.7z (298548EE) (Installed)

++ 002 - SkyUI_2_2-3863-2-2.7z (EE99043D) (Installed)

++ 003 - Unofficial Skyrim Patch v1%2e02 BETA.7z (016F6034) (Installed)

++ 004 - AdvancedKillMoves-10291-1-0b.7z (2696C2CA) (Installed)

++ 005 - Ambient_Seagulls-1306-1.rar (8E61374F) (Installed)

++ 006 - AOF_Believable_Hair_1_3_2_OPTIONAL--4307-1-3-2.7z (BE84C932) (Installed)

++ 007 - AOF_Detailed_Mountains_2_1-4805-2-1.rar (E6862655) (Installed)

++ 008 - AOF_Farmhouses_STEP_FIX_1_2-7255-1-2.7z (85453336) (Installed)

++ 009 - Auto_Unequip_Arrows_v3_0-10753.zip (CFD935E9) (Installed)

++ 010 - Axe_and_Pickaxe_Weight_Overhaul-8507.zip (4E914ED4) (Installed)

++ 011 - Better_Bows_1_1_0-13317-1-1-0.7z (B8854C4B) (Installed)

++ 012 - Better_Horses-10579-1-7-7.rar (BE328722) (Installed)

++ 013 - Better_Sorting_v-2-04-2730.rar (E1E5EE39) (Installed)

++ 014 - BetterTurnAnimationOnlyOnePose1-1-8080-1-1.rar (B00B7EFA) (Installed)

++ 015 - candle_naturalbeige-2144-1.zip (93E88327) (Installed)

++ 016 - Cloaks_of_Skyrim_dot4-12092-0-4.rar (A5A85BD8) (Installed)

++ 017 - Complete_Crafting_Overhaul_1-1-2-8003-1-12.rar (52FA80F6) (Installed)

++ 018 - Cowardly_Frost_-_install_before_quest-1522-1.7z (928FC8F2) (Installed)

++ 019 - Cowardly_horses_v3-1522.7z (14EA03D8) (Installed)

++ 020 - Death_Cam_Duration_Options-242.7z (F19E8588) (Installed)

++ 021 - Enchanting_Table_for_Breezehome_1_4-1302-1-4.zip (2C8AB2BA) (Installed)

++ 022 - Enhanced_Night_Skyrim_v04_Medium_Stars-85-0-4.zip (BCEBAF9F) (Installed)

++ 023 - Fixed_Followers_Lite_Plugin_1-2-9842-1-2.7z (C66B023B) (Installed)

++ 024 - Glass_armor_Pack_1-526.zip (78E39BAD) (Installed)

++ 025 - Glass_weapons_pack_1_-_fixed-526-2-1.zip (5BAB6749) (Installed)

++ 026 - Glowing_Ore_Veins_300_2_00-193-1.rar (9A99E91D) (Installed)

++ 027 - Height_Adjusted_Skyrim_-_Morrowind_Lore_Heights-7587-v2-5.rar (ADC08B0C) (Installed)

++ 028 - Hires_Road_Signs_Version_3-436-3-0.rar (1B2A612A) (Installed)

++ 029 - HQ_2k_milky_way_galaxy_v2-810.rar (772EF45E) (Installed)

++ 030 - IMAGINATOR_-_Visual_Control_Device_v1c-13049.7z (6D9A83EE) (Installed)

++ 031 - Immersive_Skyrim_Thunder_V5-1702-V5.7z (8C28A729) (Installed)

++ 032 - Improved_Combat_Sounds_v1_1-5289-1-1.zip (0F77C9E5) (Installed)

++ 033 - Increased_charater_height-3265-1.rar (BFBD2BCC) (Installed)

++ 034 - JaySuS_Swords_V13C-1002-13C.rar (D5F9B947) (Installed)

++ 035 - Main_Menu_Spinning_Skyrim_Emblem_Average_Speed-7801.7z (6B1BC5B8) (Installed)

++ 036 - Pine_Needles_FX-6387-2.zip (A7BDD6DA) (Installed)

++ 037 - Portable_Campsite_Lite-9935.zip (52A52FC4) (Installed)

++ 038 - Quality_SnowFlakes_Alternative_V2-7405-2-0.rar (090935B0) (Installed)

++ 039 - Quality_World_Map_-_Main_Roads-4929.zip (B65CDEA9) (Installed)

++ 040 - Real_Effect_Candle-7643-V1-0.rar (A31DA755) (Installed)

++ 041 - Real_Ice_Azur_Glacier_Pack-5388.7z (E9BE833A) (Installed)

++ 042 - Realistic_Force-601-1-7.rar (DF165DA5) (Installed)

++ 043 - Realistic_Hair-3397-1-0.rar (8E0DBE20) (Installed)

++ 044 - Realistic_Ragdolls_and_Force_compatible__version_1-1-7716.zip (46BF1AD1) (Installed)

++ 045 - RSE_High_v1_4-836.7z (F63B5EA4) (Installed)

++ 046 - sliders5-8289-1-0.7z (C393C612) (Installed)

++ 047 - SM_Drop_Lit_Torches_1-1c-10394-V1-1c.zip (EF8280C0) (Installed)

++ 048 - Sounds_of_Nature_Fire_1_1-4278-1-1.rar (A6B22D58) (Installed)

++ 049 - Sounds_of_Nature_Water_1_1-4226.rar (D135B86F) (Installed)

++ 050 - Sounds_of_Skyrim_-_The_Dungeons_1_1_Update-8601.zip (B0698F41) (Installed)

++ 051 - Sounds_of_Skyrim_-_The_Dungeons_Full_1_1-8601.zip (B326B6F0) (Installed)

++ 052 - Sounds_of_Skyrim_-_The_Wilds_1_0-8601.zip (4A35D6F5) (Installed)

++ 053 - Tattered_Banners_WIP1-4366-0-1.zip (AFAA7FDB) (Installed)

++ 054 - The_Rift_-_Aspen_Leaves_FX_-_Super_Performance-6387.zip (DA0BC26D) (Installed)

++ 055 - TheEpicofArcher-6035.rar (296FD26F) (Installed)

++ 056 - Vals_Crafting_Meltdown_Full_English-874-1-7a.zip (F4EAE1A7) (Installed)

++ 057 - Varied_Guards_and_Stormcloaks-6575-1-3.zip (2E16F4AF) (Installed)

++ 058 - Visible_Windows_High_v1_2-6971-1-2.7z (A9B51533) (Installed)

++ 059 - XCE-1_10-2356-1-1.7z (86BF5868) (Installed)

++ 060 - Bellyaches_Pack_for_NMM_or_Manual_Install-3621.7z (F9A4A0C6) (Installed)

++ 061 - Better_Dynamic_Snow_v2-1-10383-2-1.7z (CE0A0F63) (Installed)

++ 062 - Birds_and_Flocks-11555-2-2.zip (3180B4F3) (Installed)

++ 063 - Complete_HAR-3261-v1-7a.rar (160844F3) (Installed)

++ 064 - Crimson_Tide_-_Dark_Blood_1-5_FULL-12798.rar (FC11E430) (Installed)

++ 065 - Dark_version_treepineforestbark03-3812-1-6.7z (4421C456) (Installed)

++ 066 - Deadly_Dragons_Lite-13102-1-0.7z (14000129) (Installed)

++ 067 - Dirtier_Hay_Texture-4778-1-0b.zip (DC143131) (Installed)

++ 068 - Dynamic_Torches_2-8070.rar (A30AA667) (Installed)

++ 069 - EDT_1-2-1598-1-2.7z (20BD0482) (Installed)

++ 070 - Hybrids_Hires_Plant_and_Herb_Retexture_v4-1546.zip (B728883A) (Installed)

++ 071 - KWR-4349-1-0.7z (D3E869A0) (Installed)

++ 072 - Leather_Weight_Fix_half_pound-719.zip (47551E1C) (Installed)

++ 073 - Lush_Grass_1-4-3288-1-4.7z (A6D78900) (Installed)

++ 074 - Natural_Skyrim_Rain_1_4-8395-1-4.7z (328F2F4E) (Installed)

++ 075 - Re-Defined_Dungeons_1024x1024-3147-1-0.zip (F379A342) (Installed)

++ 076 - Real_Wildlife_-_Skyrim_1_31-9778-1-31.rar (116C95B3) (Installed)

++ 077 - Skyrim_HD_v1_4_LITE-607-1-4.7z (934D879A) (Installed)

++ 078 - Skyrim_Realistic_Overhaul_1024-5400-1.7z (DBC9AAC8) (Installed)

++ 079 - Skyrim_Realistic_Overhaul_Update-5400.7z (81B0D86D) (Installed)

++ 080 - SMIM_v1-19-8655-1-19.7z (E948F384) (Installed)

++ 081 - Smithing_Perks_Overhaul_1-1-1-6047.rar (9A9216AE) (Installed)

++ 082 - soulsToPerks_v1-6-2063-1-6.zip (0ADEA509) (Installed)

++ 083 - Tobes_Highres_Textures_1_2-1123-1-2.7z (E706E866) (Installed)

++ 084 - TreesHD_Skyrim_variation_HIGH_NEW-DARK-3812-1-6.7z (B44C016F) (Installed)

++ 085 - UNP_BASE_Main_body_V1dot2-6709.7z (4C14DA5C) (Installed)

++ 086 - Update_using_CK_and_improving_arrow_handling-4528-1.rar (B32FEAB3) (Installed)

++ 087 - Vandr_Presents-_HD_Imperial_Tower-_1024x1024-7094-1-0.7z (213F5A1A) (Installed)

++ 088 - Vurts_Skyrim_Flora_Overhaul_v107_Hi-Res_version-141-1-0-7.7z (E687CE5B) (Installed)

++ 089 - Vurts_Snowberry_Plants_Update-141.7z (029C2918) (Installed)

++ 090 - WATER_1-2_High_Res-13268-1-2.rar (A36B65AA) (Installed)

++ 091 - NEW_v21HDR_Realistic_Colors_and_Real_Nights_MANUAL_INSTALLER_for_STEAM_and_NEXUS-1875-2-1.7z (B7370F6C) (Installed)

 

 

[MontyMM]

That fits with my experience. I don't see a drop in FPS as I load up on textures, but when I finally go beyond my VRAM I get an unplayable stutter as I look around. Other than that, I'm pretty well convinced that my game is CPU limited in most situations.

[z929669]

agree with Monty's assessment. You are probably looking at CPU limitations more than anything. You may need to tweak your INI to get the best results on that front, and mind heavy script-based mods, overall resolution, shadows, and various other known FPS hitters from the CPU perspective.

 

Also, it is worth benchmarking under a fairly anal protocol. Wait at least 30-60 seconds after load to begin benchmarking, and look at the average FPS over a 10-20 s period in the exact same places and under exact same conditions.

 

PITA, but the data are at least relatively certain ...