DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 182

[sheson]

42 minutes ago, TechAngel85 said:

Okay. I will change those since they seem to not be needed and just keep the -30000. This replicates the DynDOLOD results, regardless if the final version will print the messages or not. I would rather have it done right than DynDOLOD needing to fix it. 

Okay, that doesn't sound like what I want. The ESM is only used to move the vanilla references out of the way and contains no new references. The ESP is what places the new references in the same locations as the old. Should the new references also be in the ESM?

This option (call it option #1) would seem to be the only way to replicate vanilla without requiring DynDOLOD, correct?

Call this option #2; the preferable option?

I do like this better as it keeps the ESM to only vanilla records. This option would require DynDOLOD, though. The unfortunate reality is that there are still users that don't use DynDOLOD because they think it too complicated and then for those that do there are still users it would scare to add rules.  I have to consider that RWT has nearly 400K downloads at its peak and adding any requirements to the mod isn't a light decision. Any requirement added as to be weighted whether it's the right things to do. In this case, I would love to bring all those users onboard with DynDOLOD, but the reality is that decision could also alienate 100s of thousands of users. It would fall somewhere in the middle of alienation and onboarding, but how far the scale would tip one way or the other is totally unknown.

I think the best solution for everyone would be option #1, if it indeed replicates vanilla behavior (have to test). Else I will go with option #2 and make it "optional" for those users adventurous enough to learn new things; others will simply have to deal with the pop-in. I don't think there has been any reports, yet, because the issues are kind of hard to view from normal gameplay. I was TFCing and TCLing around to view them. Users would normally be within the loaded range of the cells before seeing most of the references so the issues are never noticed.

If you just need to move something, just move it via the ESM. If the reference is using different base record / NIF then adding a new reference might be better to avoid trigger large references bugs because the "volume" or the base record type is different.

If you want the newly added references to be large references, then they need to be in the ESM and the large reference data needs to be genrated.

If you believe you owe users who do not mod properly anything, that is up to you.

[TechAngel85]

22 minutes ago, sheson said:

If you just need to move something, just move it via the ESM. If the reference is using different base record / NIF then adding a new reference might be better to avoid trigger large references bugs because the "volume" or the base record type is different.

If you want the newly added references to be large references, then they need to be in the ESM and the large reference data needs to be generated.

Yes, in the case of RWT, it's both a new base record and new NIF. I just finished testing this and it worked beautifully. The new references are added via ESM and new data generated. It replicated vanilla perfectly by showing up in the first level. They may still benefit from a DynDOLOD rule, though, by pushing them to load out to the next level. I'll have to test to see if it's worth it, since these aren't very large.

Thanks for your help on understanding this better!

22 minutes ago, sheson said:

If you believe you owe users who do not mod properly anything, that is up to you.

Love this. 

[z929669]

2 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

Okay, that doesn't sound like what I want. The ESM is only used to move the vanilla references out of the way and contains no new references. The ESP is what places the new references in the same locations as the old. Should the new references also be in the ESM?

IIRC, you DO want to flag the water spray and such as large refs so that they get dynamic LOD (they move even in the higher LOD levels, which is more realistic but may cost a bit in performance). I also think we would want to tick "Upgrade large refs to near grid" option.

@sheson will correct me if I'm mistaken.

[TechAngel85]

33 minutes ago, z929669 said:

IIRC, you DO want to flag the water spray and such as large refs so that they get dynamic LOD (they move even in the higher LOD levels, which is more realistic but may cost a bit in performance). I also think we would want to tick "Upgrade large refs to near grid" option.

@sheson will correct me if I'm mistaken.

For a rule, perhaps. But updating the ESM with the new references and running the script worked perfectly. It will be fixed in the next release of RWT, as such. I haven't gotten around to a rule yet. The sprays from RWT are particles. Not sure how particle effects fit into this mix. I know they don't show in vanilla for the first level of LOD, nor do they using the ESM/script. Only the static part of them show.

[Sandcom]

Hey, so for some context I've been trying to resolve this issue I've been having since early January when I switched to SE modding, that is involved with my DynDOLOD 3 LODGen, and I've been too stubborn to ask for help here because I didn't want to bother any of you guys, and I've resolved 99% of my problems but I have a final one I just can't resolve, or i'm just too stupid to figure out and feel overwhelmed and frustrated from information overload.

I've been try to generate my Grass LOD, and I use Verdant for my grass mod inside MO2, it wasn't being recognized but I fixed that learning from an old 2020 thread stating I need to Recalc Bounds for the grass so that way TexGen recognizes it, bingo bango, did that, its recognized and working fine, processed in TexGen, but the problem came up when I went to try and Generate the LODGen DynDOLOD_Output, it does every other correctly all the way up to,
[tamriel] updating height map from terrain LOD meshes
[tamriel] updating height map from object LOD meshes

Once it gets there I end up freezing, over the last couple months i've followed alot of old threads where it states its a Hardware issue, so i've done the recommended of turning off my Overclocking, then I set Max Thread Limit in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini for both OcclusionMaxThreadsTerrainLOD=6 OcclusionMaxThreadsObjectLOD=6 since I have 16 Logical Processors (and make sure nothing else is running.). 

Important contextual information is that DynDOLOD LODGen would run fully prior to me Recalc Bounds for Verdant Grass to make it recognizes the grass mod, and from my understanding Verdant Grass works for many others just fine with DynDOLOD 3 so I don't think thats the case, and I think it might be a problem on my end, and I made sure to Recalc Bounds for everything inside the Verdant Grass listing for Object Menu in Creation Kit SSE version. 

Here's the only available Log generated from when it Freezes, and a picture I took of the screen when it freezes, its always the exact same last message shown before it does for me on screen. Sorry if poor quality, phone and all that since I couldn't screenshot.

Thank you so much for even just reading, you guys are absolutely great, and I apologize if this is something super obvious and I was just too stupid to realize from how overloaded my brain feels, and how frustrated I feel, I do not like the idea of wasting your guys time.

LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt

[sheson]

13 hours ago, z929669 said:

IIRC, you DO want to flag the water spray and such as large refs so that they get dynamic LOD (they move even in the higher LOD levels, which is more realistic but may cost a bit in performance). I also think we would want to tick "Upgrade large refs to near grid" option.

@sheson will correct me if I'm mistaken.

Only thins that have dynamic LOD objects or rules will they have dynamic LOD. If they large references and are assigned to FarGrid or are assigned to NearGrid and the Upgrade NearGrid large references to FarGrid is checked.

12 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

For a rule, perhaps. But updating the ESM with the new references and running the script worked perfectly. It will be fixed in the next release of RWT, as such. I haven't gotten around to a rule yet. The sprays from RWT are particles. Not sure how particle effects fit into this mix. I know they don't show in vanilla for the first level of LOD, nor do they using the ESM/script. Only the static part of them show.

Full models are always full models. Large references are full models in the LOD area just like IsFullLOD/Persistent references that are disabled and unloaded  at the uLargeRefLODGridSize, which has no levels.  Dynamic LOD models included in DynDOLOD often have particles removed for optimization.

[sheson]

8 hours ago, Sandcom said:

Hey, so for some context I've been trying to resolve this issue I've been having since early January when I switched to SE modding, that is involved with my DynDOLOD 3 LODGen, and I've been too stubborn to ask for help here because I didn't want to bother any of you guys, and I've resolved 99% of my problems but I have a final one I just can't resolve, or i'm just too stupid to figure out and feel overwhelmed and frustrated from information overload.

I've been try to generate my Grass LOD, and I use Verdant for my grass mod inside MO2, it wasn't being recognized but I fixed that learning from an old 2020 thread stating I need to Recalc Bounds for the grass so that way TexGen recognizes it, bingo bango, did that, its recognized and working fine, processed in TexGen, but the problem came up when I went to try and Generate the LODGen DynDOLOD_Output, it does every other correctly all the way up to,
[tamriel] updating height map from terrain LOD meshes
[tamriel] updating height map from object LOD meshes

Once it gets there I end up freezing, over the last couple months i've followed alot of old threads where it states its a Hardware issue, so i've done the recommended of turning off my Overclocking, then I set Max Thread Limit in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini for both OcclusionMaxThreadsTerrainLOD=6 OcclusionMaxThreadsObjectLOD=6 since I have 16 Logical Processors (and make sure nothing else is running.). 

Important contextual information is that DynDOLOD LODGen would run fully prior to me Recalc Bounds for Verdant Grass to make it recognizes the grass mod, and from my understanding Verdant Grass works for many others just fine with DynDOLOD 3 so I don't think thats the case, and I think it might be a problem on my end, and I made sure to Recalc Bounds for everything inside the Verdant Grass listing for Object Menu in Creation Kit SSE version. 

Here's the only available Log generated from when it Freezes, and a picture I took of the screen when it freezes, its always the exact same last message shown before it does for me on screen. Sorry if poor quality, phone and all that since I couldn't screenshot.

Thank you so much for even just reading, you guys are absolutely great, and I apologize if this is something super obvious and I was just too stupid to realize from how overloaded my brain feels, and how frustrated I feel, I do not like the idea of wasting your guys time.

LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt 39.45 kB · 0 downloads

No idea what thread from 2020 you refer to, but the object bounds and to recalc them is explained in this thread and in the included documentation. For that grass mod, too IIRC.

Limit the max threads to reduce memory consumption as explained in these post or the INI. Start with 1:

https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/124/?tab=comments#comment-250521
https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/15/?tab=comments#comment-244301

https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/windows.html

[Sandcom]

1 hour ago, sheson said:

No idea what thread from 2020 you refer to, but the object bounds and to recalc them is explained in this thread and in the included documentation. For that grass mod, too IIRC.

Limit the max threads to reduce memory consumption as explained in these post or the INI. Start with 1:

https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/124/?tab=comments#comment-250521
https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/15/?tab=comments#comment-244301

https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/windows.html

Thank you so much for all your work Sheson, not just your help with me, i'll take a look over it and continue from there. Just having a lead gives me so much relief.

The old thread was just you explaining that overclocking can cause functional errors with LODGen as it causes the generator to misread, but its possible it was for /normal/ DynDOLOD or LE DynDOLOD, not sure but regardless it seemed smart to turn it off anyways just incase.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sandcom

[Sandcom]

10 hours ago, sheson said:

No idea what thread from 2020 you refer to, but the object bounds and to recalc them is explained in this thread and in the included documentation. For that grass mod, too IIRC.

Limit the max threads to reduce memory consumption as explained in these post or the INI. Start with 1:

https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/124/?tab=comments#comment-250521
https://stepmodifications.org/forum/topic/15606-dyndolod-300-alpha-53/page/15/?tab=comments#comment-244301

https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/windows.html

IT WORKED! WOOOO! Setting it to 1 fixed everything, thanks a bunch!

[mattski123]

I'm following the No Grass LOD Check List and I'm using vanilla grass but I have other grass mods. I have precached all the grass I need. Any extra errors don't seem relatable, and I've asked Mod Authors specifically to mod specific queries. Here's the logs + extras for mroe details: https://easyupload.io/i7lx0z

How do I fix these from the checklist:

1. I don't have any grass LOD billboards in TexGen Output.

2. My debug log doesn't contain <Notice: [Worldspace] Gathering grass data for object LOD> .

3. DynDOLOD_tamriel.dds doesn't contain any grass from TexGen (as I couldn't find anything in texgen).

4. LODGen_SSE_Export_Tamriel.txt doesn't contain GrassMap=.

5. I don't appear to have any LODGen_SSE_Grass_Map_[Worldspace].txt files.

6. I have a bunch of files in \Objects\[Worldspace].4.x.y.bto and I ran execute LODgen, checked the LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt and couldn't find any reference to grass.

7. I also have a warning saying FBlockLevel0Distance set to 60000. Should I be worried or concerned about this?

All of this is related to my post here:

 

[sheson]

6 hours ago, mattski123 said:

I'm following the No Grass LOD Check List and I'm using vanilla grass but I have other grass mods. I have precached all the grass I need. Any extra errors don't seem relatable, and I've asked Mod Authors specifically to mod specific queries. Here's the logs + extras for mroe details: https://easyupload.io/i7lx0z

How do I fix these from the checklist:

1. I don't have any grass LOD billboards in TexGen Output.

2. My debug log doesn't contain <Notice: [Worldspace] Gathering grass data for object LOD> .

3. DynDOLOD_tamriel.dds doesn't contain any grass from TexGen (as I couldn't find anything in texgen).

4. LODGen_SSE_Export_Tamriel.txt doesn't contain GrassMap=.

5. I don't appear to have any LODGen_SSE_Grass_Map_[Worldspace].txt files.

6. I have a bunch of files in \Objects\[Worldspace].4.x.y.bto and I ran execute LODgen, checked the LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt and couldn't find any reference to grass.

7. I also have a warning saying FBlockLevel0Distance set to 60000. Should I be worried or concerned about this?

All of this is related to my post here:

 

If there are no grass LOD billboards generated, then you found the problem. There obviously is no point to do any checks beyond that point until that requirement has been met.

To generate grass LOD billboards with TexGen, check the Grass checkbox in the Tree/Grass LOD Billboards options. See ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\TexGen.html

Read ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\LogMessages.html to learn what log messages mean.

[mattski123]

25 minutes ago, sheson said:

If there are no grass LOD billboards generated, then you found the problem. There obviously is no point to do any checks beyond that point until that requirement has been met.

To generate grass LOD billboards with TexGen, check the Grass checkbox in the Tree/Grass LOD Billboards options. See ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\TexGen.html

Read ..\DynDOLOD\docs\help\LogMessages.html to learn what log messages mean.

I see. But how do I fix my grass and landscape which you saw in my original post? I wanna have the primest setting suggested for those distances and to load grass from that far away. Also, do I need a grass mod??? other than what I already have.

Edited November 6, 2021 by mattski123

[sheson]

23 minutes ago, mattski123 said:

I see. But how do I fix my grass and landscape which you saw in my original post? I wanna have the primest setting suggested for those distances and to load grass from that far away. Also, do I need a grass mod??? other than what I already have.

Use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD meshes and textures to improve terrain LOD in the LOD area.

Generate grass LOD with DynDOLOD to have grass LOD in the LOD area.

See the first and second post to see the requirements and instructions how to generate grass LOD.

[mattski123]

32 minutes ago, sheson said:

Use xLODGen to generate terrain LOD meshes and textures to improve terrain LOD in the LOD area.

Generate grass LOD with DynDOLOD to have grass LOD in the LOD area.

See the first and second post to see the requirements and instructions how to generate grass LOD.

According to the instructions, the reason the option is disabled is because the requirements aren't met. And I've been generating the object LODs fine. So, how do I fix this grass issue? When I precached grass I had it set to: DynDOLODGrassMode = 1. And all the rest is correct. It found 27807 grass cache files.

[sheson]

27 minutes ago, mattski123 said:

According to the instructions, the reason the option is disabled is because the requirements aren't met. And I've been generating the object LODs fine. So, how do I fix this grass issue? When I precached grass I had it set to: DynDOLODGrassMode = 1. And all the rest is correct. It found 27807 grass cache files.

As explained on the second post and answered to the earlier question, grass LOD billboards need to be generated with TexGen and installed in the load order in order to be able to generate grass LOD.

DynDOLODGrassMode in NGIO does not affect the pre-caching of grass. It is a distance setting that defines how far full grass renders.