DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 180

[TFVgen]

Just coming back to report that everything is working nicely now, thanks for all the help sheson!

[z929669]

10 hours ago, sheson said:

The billboard txt for the given example would be the file textures\terrain\lodgen\cathedral landscapes.esp\ferngrass01a_0000088e.txt

TexGen adds the filenames of textures defined by the NIF to the billboard txt file.
DynDOLOD checks if the filenames of textures defined by the NIF are listed in the billboard txt found in the load order (e.g. the installed TexGen output). If that check fails the message is printed.
It is a simple consistency check, that both tools agree that the NIF still defines the same textures, e.g. the NIF did not change in the meantime.

Temporary textures are irrelevant for this test.

When I say something went wrong (with TexGen adding the information or DynDOLOD checking it) it does not necessarily mean there is an error message about it or that the way the check is done is free of errors. Alpha version and all.

If full grass uses complex textures or not is irrelevant for DynDOLOD and the grass LOD meshes generation with LODGen, since DynDOLOD uses the grass LOD billboards generated by TexGen for grass LOD generation. The diffuse and optional normal texture of grass is only relevant for its billboard creation.

I think we are misunderstanding each other ... ENB complex grass functionality does or does not work in grass LOD? I suspect not from my results in the screen posted previously (and the fairly stringent requirements of textures for ENB to make use of), but given the grass billboards warnings of not found textures, I remain uncertain.

Asked another way: Is it possible for grass billboards rendered in LOD to respond to lighting in a manner similar to full grass loaded into cells around the player that use complex grass textures specifically made to work with complexgrass ENB effect/settings?

Posting the screen again. Note that you can see complex grass at work under ENB in the foreground but not in LOD further out. Is this expected given my grass billboards warnings, or would the same be true even if I had no grass billboard warnings (i.e., the warnings are not legit)? Could the warnings be related to my use of complex grass diffuse+normal textures replacing standard CL diffuse-only grass textures?

---

In the following run, I ran TexGen with ONLY grass ticked, moved this output into my LO, and then (immediately after that) I ran DynDOLOD with only Tamriel, Object LOD, and Grass LOD options ticked (ignoring DynDOLOD GUI warnings). No LO changes between TexGen and DynDOLOD runs outside of moving TexGen grass billboards output into the LO. I am using Cathedral Landscapes with the CL complex grass textures add-on replacers. This minimizes the sizes of the logs and focuses mainly on grass LODGen:

I still get the "Outdated Billboards" summary message listing only CL grass billboards. logs and summary for this run.

fieldgrass01a billboard txt file (billboards are present in TexGen output): ferngrass01a_0000088e.txt Note the textures listed are the Temp textures which are deleted on TexGen close and not those in the output shown in the image below.

Image of Explorer TexGen output location

---

In the following run, I did same as previous run but with my CL complex grass add-on replacer mod deactivated. All else is identical to previous run:

I DO NOT get the "Outdated Billboards" summary message listing only CL grass billboards. logs and summary for this run.

fieldgrass01a billboard txt file (billboards are present in TexGen output): ferngrass01a_0000088e.txt

Image of Explorer TexGen output location (disregard "DynDOLOD" mod ... it was an empty folder in my MO list I made use of for this output)

[z929669]

Also have a quick question about billboard4 in LOD4. Have you seen this issue with reaction to sunlight when low on the horizon? I haven't noticed this in my testing, but a couple of people have this issue. I suspect it may be exacerbated by ENB/INI/display settings for this reason. The following examples were snagged from the Aspens Ablaze DynDOLOD Add-On mod topic on Nexus

[sheson]

7 hours ago, Mirari said:

Logs:

DYNDOLOD_SSE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/awmwmr74

DYNDOLOD_SSE_DEBUG_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/vm1ynv89

LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt : https://ufile.io/ngza7pv9

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_REPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/ngza7pv9

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_EXPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/ngza7pv9

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/ngza7pv9

Issue:

Beginning with Alpha 89 and now in Alpha 92, generating ultra trees on medium settings now includes plants as 2D billboard LOD. Some look good, but most are short and wide resulting in these large crosses dotting the landscape.

I am using default Medium rules, and changed the rules for 'tree' to use Level0 for LOD4, Billboard4 for LOD8, and Billboard1 for LOD16 with Ultra Trees checked in the wizard. These settings did not generate 2D plant lod when I used previous versions of Dyndolod 3.0.

Wondering how to deactivate this feature, or if the very low and flat crosses are an issue on my part.

LODGen_SSE_Tamriel_log.txt 38.58 kB · 0 downloads

The last 4 file links are all the same, so we can not check any of the "TREE" logs.
Need TexGen logs to know which billboards it generated.
Need a screenshot with the form id of the reference (base record) to know what to look for in the logs. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots

DynDOLOD.exe uses the billboards it finds in the load order. Nothing changed in DynDOLOD.exe or its settings in this regard, particular there is no change for "plants".
Standard tree LOD or ultra tree LOD is only done for base records of the type TREE and STAT with the Has Tree LOD flag.

None of the default TexGen settings changed. For the same load order it should still generate the same tree LOD billboards, filtered by the object bounds.

Remove all third party billboards, especially if you do not want them to be used for LOD generation.

[sheson]

7 hours ago, TFVgen said:

Just coming back to report that everything is working nicely now, thanks for all the help sheson!

Great. Enjoy.

[sheson]

4 hours ago, z929669 said:

I think we are misunderstanding each other ... ENB complex grass functionality does or does not work in grass LOD? I suspect not from my results in the screen posted previously (and the fairly stringent requirements of textures for ENB to make use of), but given the grass billboards warnings of not found textures, I remain uncertain.

Asked another way: Is it possible for grass billboards rendered in LOD to respond to lighting in a manner similar to full grass loaded into cells around the player that use complex grass textures specifically made to work with complexgrass ENB effect/settings?

Posting the screen again. Note that you can see complex grass at work under ENB in the foreground but not in LOD further out. Is this expected given my grass billboards warnings, or would the same be true even if I had no grass billboard warnings (i.e., the warnings are not legit)? Could the warnings be related to my use of complex grass diffuse+normal textures replacing standard CL diffuse-only grass textures?

---

In the following run, I ran TexGen with ONLY grass ticked, moved this output into my LO, and then (immediately after that) I ran DynDOLOD with only Tamriel, Object LOD, and Grass LOD options ticked (ignoring DynDOLOD GUI warnings). No LO changes between TexGen and DynDOLOD runs outside of moving TexGen grass billboards output into the LO. I am using Cathedral Landscapes with the CL complex grass textures add-on replacers. This minimizes the sizes of the logs and focuses mainly on grass LODGen:

I still get the "Outdated Billboards" summary message listing only CL grass billboards. logs and summary for this run.

fieldgrass01a billboard txt file (billboards are present in TexGen output): ferngrass01a_0000088e.txt Note the textures listed are the Temp textures which are deleted on TexGen close and not those in the output shown in the image below.

Image of Explorer TexGen output location

---

In the following run, I did same as previous run but with my CL complex grass add-on replacer mod deactivated. All else is identical to previous run:

I DO NOT get the "Outdated Billboards" summary message listing only CL grass billboards. logs and summary for this run.

fieldgrass01a billboard txt file (billboards are present in TexGen output): ferngrass01a_0000088e.txt

Image of Explorer TexGen output location (disregard "DynDOLOD" mod ... it was an empty folder in my MO list I made use of for this output)

Normally full grass has no normal maps. Hence the grass LOD billboard generation uses the default flat normal map as substitute.
Complex grass now has a normal map texture, so the grass LOD billboard generation uses it. Since object LOD requires normal map texture, and so does grass LOD, nothing else needs to change. Since complex full grass has normal maps too now, it means the grass LOD billboard direct/ambient light settings in TexGen and/or the GrassBrightness* INI settings most likely need adjusting. If ENB uses the "standard" shader for complex grass so it behaves like everything else including object LOD, then it the light between full grass / grass LOD should now behave full trees and HD tree billboards with Billboard1. Maybe try same direct/ambient light as HD billboards and the same values RGB GrassBrightnessTop* and GrassBrightnessBottom* respectively, so the color tone is not changed. 

If there is difference between full grass and grass LOD that me and speculate on, make a screenshot directly looking at it. All the screenshot you posted shows me is that there is grass LOD in the distance and there is full grass in the front. Maybe they are supposed to be different grass. Maybe the grass LOD needs brightness adjustment. Maybe a certain full grass has no billboard. Maybe the full grass fades badly because of its mipmaps.

Obviously, determine a specific full grass model in question and check its generated billboard texture looks as expected.

------

The temp textures filenames TexGen adds to the billboards txt seem to be wrong, since they are unlikely to be the texture filename(s) defined in the ferngrass01a.nif.
So ignore the message about the textures for now until next version.

 

[sheson]

4 hours ago, z929669 said:

Also have a quick question about billboard4 in LOD4. Have you seen this issue with reaction to sunlight when low on the horizon? I haven't noticed this in my testing, but a couple of people have this issue. I suspect it may be exacerbated by ENB/INI/display settings for this reason. The following examples were snagged from the Aspens Ablaze DynDOLOD Add-On mod topic on Nexus

Not that I can think of. Make a proper post with information if you want to report a problem or help investigating this is required.

[Mirari]

2 hours ago, sheson said:

The last 4 file links are all the same, so we can not check any of the "TREE" logs.
Need TexGen logs to know which billboards it generated.
Need a screenshot with the form id of the reference (base record) to know what to look for in the logs. https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#In-Game-Screenshots

DynDOLOD.exe uses the billboards it finds in the load order. Nothing changed in DynDOLOD.exe or its settings in this regard, particular there is no change for "plants".
Standard tree LOD or ultra tree LOD is only done for base records of the type TREE and STAT with the Has Tree LOD flag.

None of the default TexGen settings changed. For the same load order it should still generate the same tree LOD billboards, filtered by the object bounds.

Remove all third party billboards, especially if you do not want them to be used for LOD generation.

TEXGEN_SSE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/ljcywfpb

TEXGEN_SSE_DEBUG_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/6rth5lgb

 

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_REPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/w6fijfp8

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_EXPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/nnp354w9

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/7czr83n6

One of the plants receiving 'flat-cross' static lod, followed by the lod object itself:

Zoomed in picture of the Tamriel texture atlas showing billboard plant textures:

I am not aware of any plant mods I have that include billboards. I've checked the Skyrim 3D Plants folder, as well as Veydosebrom. These are my only plant mods and they do not have billboards.

[sheson]

1 hour ago, Mirari said:

TEXGEN_SSE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/ljcywfpb

TEXGEN_SSE_DEBUG_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/6rth5lgb

 

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_REPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/w6fijfp8

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_EXPORT.txt : https://ufile.io/nnp354w9

DYNDOLOD_SSE_TREE_LOG.txt : https://ufile.io/7czr83n6

One of the plants receiving 'flat-cross' static lod, followed by the lod object itself:

Zoomed in picture of the Tamriel texture atlas showing billboard plant textures:

I am not aware of any plant mods I have that include billboards. I've checked the Skyrim 3D Plants folder, as well as Veydosebrom. These are my only plant mods and they do not have billboards.

From the screenshot of the full model we know the billboard filename: full model filename without .NIF _ the base record form id:
textures\terrain\lodgen\skyrim.esm\tundrashrub09_000aae89.dds

From the TexGen log we can see it didn't generate that billboard. That means the billboard (and the other shrubs and ferns and whatnot which are listed as billboard found texture... in DyndDOLOD_SSE_Tree_LOD.txt) are already installed in the load order by other mods.

As suggested, remove all 3rd party billboards from the load order and only keep the ones generated by TexGen. All billboards are in textures\terrain\lodgen\ (see https://dyndolod.info/Help/Tree-Grass-LOD-Billboards), so they are and their mods are  usually easy to find  by checking MO2 right window data tab.

[Mirari]

29 minutes ago, sheson said:

From the screenshot of the full model we know the billboard filename: full model filename without .NIF _ the base record form id:
textures\terrain\lodgen\skyrim.esm\tundrashrub09_000aae89.dds

From the TexGen log we can see it didn't generate that billboard. That means the billboard (and the other shrubs and ferns and whatnot which are listed as billboard found texture... in DyndDOLOD_SSE_Tree_LOD.txt) are already installed in the load order by other mods.

As suggested, remove all 3rd party billboards from the load order and only keep the ones generated by TexGen. All billboards are in textures\terrain\lodgen\ (see https://dyndolod.info/Help/Tree-Grass-LOD-Billboards), so they are and their mods are  usually easy to find  by checking MO2 right window data tab.

Looking in the right panel, yeah I see them now. There are billboards for these plants added by the 'HD LODs Textures' mod from Nexus. I believed that mod almost entirely covered architecture. I recently updated it, perhaps there were no plant billboards before and that's the reason DynDOLOD never generated object lod for them before.

So if I hide these billboards, will DynDOLOD omit the plant models in object LOD generation, or will it continue to generate them with billboards created in TexGen? Considering all these 'plant' models - shrubs, ferns, etc. - are technically tree records?

[sheson]

34 minutes ago, Mirari said:

Looking in the right panel, yeah I see them now. There are billboards for these plants added by the 'HD LODs Textures' mod from Nexus. I believed that mod almost entirely covered architecture. I recently updated it, perhaps there were no plant billboards before and that's the reason DynDOLOD never generated object lod for them before.

So if I hide these billboards, will DynDOLOD omit the plant models in object LOD generation, or will it continue to generate them with billboards created in TexGen? Considering all these 'plant' models - shrubs, ferns, etc. - are technically tree records?

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Useful-3rd-Party-Mods
HD LODs Textures SE - install the DynDOLOD version. Overwrite any textures from DynDOLOD Resources SE but not the textures generated by TexGen. Adjust Max tile size on advanced options to match the downloaded resolution or use it to shrink higher resolution back down to lower resolution automatically while the atlas is created. Do not install / remove any tree LOD billboards. Use TexGen to generate all desired billboards.

As already explained, "DynDOLOD.exe uses the billboards it finds in the load order." That means, Billboards that are not in the load order can not be used. Without a LOD asset (and no rule that says to use the full model) something does not / can not have LOD representation.

As already stated: "From the TexGen log we can see it didn't generate that billboard." That means, TexGen will continue to not generate those billboards. See https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen-Configuration#Tree-Grass-LOD-Billboards to learn how TexGen uses the object bounds to determine for which trees it automatically generate billboards.

[z929669]

7 hours ago, sheson said:

Normally full grass has no normal maps. Hence the grass LOD billboard generation uses the default flat normal map as substitute.
Complex grass now has a normal map texture, so the grass LOD billboard generation uses it. Since object LOD requires normal map texture, and so does grass LOD, nothing else needs to change. Since complex full grass has normal maps too now, it means the grass LOD billboard direct/ambient light settings in TexGen and/or the GrassBrightness* INI settings most likely need adjusting. If ENB uses the "standard" shader for complex grass so it behaves like everything else including object LOD, then it the light between full grass / grass LOD should now behave full trees and HD tree billboards with Billboard1. Maybe try same direct/ambient light as HD billboards and the same values RGB GrassBrightnessTop* and GrassBrightnessBottom* respectively, so the color tone is not changed. 

If there is difference between full grass and grass LOD that me and speculate on, make a screenshot directly looking at it. All the screenshot you posted shows me is that there is grass LOD in the distance and there is full grass in the front. Maybe they are supposed to be different grass. Maybe the grass LOD needs brightness adjustment. Maybe a certain full grass has no billboard. Maybe the full grass fades badly because of its mipmaps.

Obviously, determine a specific full grass model in question and check its generated billboard texture looks as expected.

------

The temp textures filenames TexGen adds to the billboards txt seem to be wrong, since they are unlikely to be the texture filename(s) defined in the ferngrass01a.nif.
So ignore the message about the textures for now until next version.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understand now what to expect and will play around with brightness settings.

Also glad to have found the texture path issue fort split textures is not affecting the visual outcome. I will ignore this as I proceed.

[z929669]

15 hours ago, sheson said:

Normally full grass has no normal maps. Hence the grass LOD billboard generation uses the default flat normal map as substitute.
Complex grass now has a normal map texture, so the grass LOD billboard generation uses it. Since object LOD requires normal map texture, and so does grass LOD, nothing else needs to change. Since complex full grass has normal maps too now, it means the grass LOD billboard direct/ambient light settings in TexGen and/or the GrassBrightness* INI settings most likely need adjusting. If ENB uses the "standard" shader for complex grass so it behaves like everything else including object LOD, then it the light between full grass / grass LOD should now behave full trees and HD tree billboards with Billboard1. Maybe try same direct/ambient light as HD billboards and the same values RGB GrassBrightnessTop* and GrassBrightnessBottom* respectively, so the color tone is not changed. 

If there is difference between full grass and grass LOD that me and speculate on, make a screenshot directly looking at it. All the screenshot you posted shows me is that there is grass LOD in the distance and there is full grass in the front. Maybe they are supposed to be different grass. Maybe the grass LOD needs brightness adjustment. Maybe a certain full grass has no billboard. Maybe the full grass fades badly because of its mipmaps.

Obviously, determine a specific full grass model in question and check its generated billboard texture looks as expected.

Following up on this ...

I generated TexGen/DynDOLOD again using HD Trees direct/ambient defaults for grass and raised my DynDOLOD grass top/bottom RGB values by 0.05. As you can see, whatever ENB is doing to make use of the complex grass normal maps in post processing isn't happening likewise with LOD grass. I do think the grass normals make a slight difference for LOD, ENB doesn't make use of it. The panorama shot looks decent, but you can tell by the other shots that color is still off, and LOD is arguably too bright now. I prefer the TexGen defaults for grass and our custom values for DynDOLOD top/bottom (as shown in the second row from my original run). I have included several angles to show the effect of sun position (9:30 AM and sun is just to ESE of Whiterun):

ENB requires specific pixel values in the lower-left corner of the texture and in the alpha channel to flag ENB for these effects (link to guide):

[DoubleYou]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

Following up on this ...

I generated TexGen/DynDOLOD again using HD Trees direct/ambient defaults for grass and raised my DynDOLOD grass top/bottom RGB values by 0.05. As you can see, whatever ENB is doing to make use of the complex grass normal maps in post processing isn't happening likewise with LOD grass. I do think the grass normals make a slight difference for LOD, ENB doesn't make use of it. The panorama shot looks decent, but you can tell by the other shots that color is still off, and LOD is arguably too bright now. I prefer the TexGen defaults for grass and our custom values for DynDOLOD top/bottom (as shown in the second row from my original run). I have included several angles to show the effect of sun position (9:30 AM and sun is just to ESE of Whiterun):

ENB requires specific pixel values in the lower-left corner of the texture and in the alpha channel to flag ENB for these effects (link to guide):

It would appear that the grass LOD is either too dark or too bright dependent upon the angle from your shots. I'm not sure if this could or couldn't be mitigated somewhat by adjusting TexGen settings. It looks like you should set Ambient lower and Direct higher.

[Mirari]

19 hours ago, sheson said:

https://dyndolod.info/Mods/Useful-3rd-Party-Mods
HD LODs Textures SE - install the DynDOLOD version. Overwrite any textures from DynDOLOD Resources SE but not the textures generated by TexGen. Adjust Max tile size on advanced options to match the downloaded resolution or use it to shrink higher resolution back down to lower resolution automatically while the atlas is created. Do not install / remove any tree LOD billboards. Use TexGen to generate all desired billboards.

As already explained, "DynDOLOD.exe uses the billboards it finds in the load order." That means, Billboards that are not in the load order can not be used. Without a LOD asset (and no rule that says to use the full model) something does not / can not have LOD representation.

As already stated: "From the TexGen log we can see it didn't generate that billboard." That means, TexGen will continue to not generate those billboards. See https://dyndolod.info/Help/TexGen-Configuration#Tree-Grass-LOD-Billboards to learn how TexGen uses the object bounds to determine for which trees it automatically generate billboards.

Thanks for the help. I'll do some reading to better understand the details of how DynDOLOD operates.