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DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 169

sheson

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Mousetick Emperor

Mousetick

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29 minutes ago, sheson said:

There is no mention in the post that the plugin has been ESM flagged, it seems to be an normal ESP based on the information provided.

I'm pretty sure that's the case, based on my conversation with the OP elsewhere, and this information was omitted. The OP is attempting to fix the large reference bugs by ESMifying plugins. But of course it's not for me to say. I'll let the OP confirm whether they've ESM-flagged the plugin or not.

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sheson
sheson

Will be fixed next version. The mipmap generation is wrapping the texture instead of clamping it.

sheson
sheson

This should be fixed next Alpha version.

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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12 hours ago, LordIceWolf said:

It's the optional file on this mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/20396

The plugin is named Timber for Whiterun MystiriousDawn.esp

I compacted the FormIDs and ESL flagged the plugin Timber for Whiterun MystiriousDawn.esp and removed "treereach, treepine, treeaspen," from the Ignore= line in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini and then generated LOD. The trees were copied from the child world to the parent word and LOD was generated for them as expected.

DynDOLOD_SSE_ChildworldCopies_Tamriel.txt contains the expected lines for the trees as well. For example:

[REFR:FE001D8F] (places TreePineForest02 [TREE:00018A02] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunPlainsDistrict04 [CELL:0001A276] (in WhiterunWorld "Whiterun" [WRLD:0001A26F] at 6,-2)) -> timberforwhiterunmystiriousdawnesp_000D8F_DynDOLOD_CHILD [REFR:084D18F5] ...

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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11 hours ago, Blackread said:

I was wondering, since DynDOLOD already warns about overwritten large references and large references with the Initially Disabled flag, would it also be possible to add a warning about large references that have been moved outside their original cell? At least on my setup these kind of edits seem to fairly consistently trigger an issue where the data of the last plugin that places it in the origin cell is used instead of the override which moved it to another cell. This is especially true whenever the large ref system is enabled (uLargeRefLODGridSize > uGridsToLoad).

As an example, COTN Falkreath swaps the model of the Jarl's Longhouse and moves it up the hill (which is to say, into another exterior cell). If I have uLargeRefLODGridSize = uGridsToLoad it works fine, but if I enable large refs the longhouse ends up in its old position and using its old model. I can work around this with the disable & duplicate trick, but finding these issues would be a lot easier (and faster) if I had a list of all the records that need to be addressed, instead of having to manually check every overwritten large reference.

With either 1.5.97 or 1.6.353, either with the plugin COTN - Falkreath.esp from https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/56731 as is or after ESM flagging it without generating RNAM data, then generating LOD, I always see the new model and also the large reference seems to behave normally, e. g. it loads past the uGridsToLoad and turns off beyond uLargeRefLODGridSize.

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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5 hours ago, Mousetick said:
  • Player approaches Cell x2,y2 by entering one of the near cells inside the uGrid encompassing Cell x2,y2: full model is loaded in Cell x2,y2, as expected.
  • Player approaches Cell x2,y2 by entering one of the far cells inside the uLargeRefLODGridSize encompassing Cell x1,y1: full model is loaded in Cell x1,y1, which is the wrong one.

Do you have an example plugin where the actual full model loads in a different position/cell other than the position/cell that the winning overwrite of the reference defines? With a new game of course.

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Mousetick Emperor

Mousetick

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1 hour ago, sheson said:

Do you have an example plugin where the actual full model loads in a different position/cell other than the position/cell that the winning overwrite of the reference defines?

I had one a while ago. But it was with a large reference to a PlaneMarker STAT, so "full model" doesn't really apply there. I believe it's the same or very similar problem though.

@Blackread describes a better example in details with a boat in Solitude in this topic.

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

I had one a while ago. But it was with a large reference to a PlaneMarker STAT, so "full model" doesn't really apply there. I believe it's the same or very similar problem though.

@Blackread describes a better example in details with a boat in Solitude in this topic.

There has to be something else at work, too. Save games do save positions of things, so any tests need to be with new game.

I would remove everything else from the plugin and only keep involved records and only test with the minimum number of plugins. That should at least quickly narrow it down to what records/changes are required to have the problem and others are more likely to be able to replicate it.

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Blackread Guard

Blackread

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9 hours ago, sheson said:

Test with latest version from https://github.com/TES5Edit/TES5Edit/blob/dev-4.1.5/Build/Edit Scripts/Skyrim SE - Generate Large References.pas

I got the same result with the latest version. However, I noticed that if I loaded only the plugin (and its masters) I wanted to generate RNAM for, I got the right form IDs. Is this how the script is intended to be used? Although this only worked for plugins that only had a single master editing the same worldspace. If there were more the same thing happened.

3 hours ago, sheson said:

Do you have an example plugin where the actual full model loads in a different position/cell other than the position/cell that the winning overwrite of the reference defines? With a new game of course.

Sorry my initial post was a little light on details, I thought this was a known engine limitation. I'll give the full reproduction steps with COTN Falkreath here.

I did the same as you, took COTN Falkreath, flagged it as ESM without generating RNAM and generated LOD with DynDOLOD Alpha 95. Then this is how I can get the glitch to manifest:

1. From the main menu, coc whiterun.

2. After loading into the game I did the following console commands (to help with testing): tmm 1, tdetect, tgm.

3. Fast travel to Peak's Shade Tower, southeast from Falkreath.

4. Run to Falkreath. The route you take shouldn't matter, but I beelined over the cliffs.

5. Be greeted with this sight:

Spoiler

bnHcK11.png

6. Run up the hill to inspect the place where the object should be, to find a gaping hole:

Spoiler

BhoBGwA.png

That's all of the steps. However, if you instead coc straight to falkreathexterior01 (be it from the main menu or after coc'ing to whiterun first), the object is in the right place.

Spoiler

0RWUplP.png0MQIqYE.png

On both occasions this is what the record looked like in xEdit:

Spoiler

MT9LMJS.png

On these tests I coc'd from the main menu, but the same bug occured on my full modlist when starting a new game via Alternate Perspective, so I don't think the manner of starting the game is relevant.

The LOD is generated and displayed correctly:

Spoiler

4yshAwb.png

If you situate yourself a suitable distance south of falkreath you can get a situation where both the LOD and the full model are displayed:

Spoiler

sXsB6il.png

CRC of the COTN - Falkreath.esp:

Spoiler

  - name: 'COTN - Falkreath.esp'
    clean:
      - crc: 0x80E3CC70
        util: 'SSEEdit v4.0.4'

When I took these screenshots I had uGridsToLoad = 5 and uLargeRefLODGridSize = 11. However, this time when I tested with uLargeRefLODGridSize = 5 the glitch still happened.

Active mods and plugins:

Spoiler

5gRvxdy.png

The game version was 1.5.97. Here are the modlist and plugins in a text file format, along with my ini files: https://loadorderlibrary.com/lists/falkreath-test

I also did a quick test with the original COTN Falkreath plugin without the ESM flag, and the glitch did not happen.

If there's anything I forgot let me know.

Edited by Blackread
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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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2 hours ago, Blackread said:

 

I got the same result with the latest version. However, I noticed that if I loaded only the plugin (and its masters) I wanted to generate RNAM for, I got the right form IDs. Is this how the script is intended to be used? Although this only worked for plugins that only had a single master editing the same worldspace. If there were more the same thing happened.

Sorry my initial post was a little light on details, I thought this was a known engine limitation. I'll give the full reproduction steps with COTN Falkreath here.

I did the same as you, took COTN Falkreath, flagged it as ESM without generating RNAM and generated LOD with DynDOLOD Alpha 95. Then this is how I can get the glitch to manifest:

1. From the main menu, coc whiterun.

2. After loading into the game I did the following console commands (to help with testing): tmm 1, tdetect, tgm.

3. Fast travel to Peak's Shade Tower, southeast from Falkreath.

4. Run to Falkreath. The route you take shouldn't matter, but I beelined over the cliffs.

5. Be greeted with this sight:

  Reveal hidden contents

6. Run up the hill to inspect the place where the object should be, to find a gaping hole:

  Reveal hidden contents

That's all of the steps. However, if you instead coc straight to falkreathexterior01 (be it from the main menu or after coc'ing to whiterun first), the object is in the right place.

  Reveal hidden contents

On both occasions this is what the record looked like in xEdit:

  Reveal hidden contents

On these tests I coc'd from the main menu, but the same bug occured on my full modlist when starting a new game via Alternate Perspective, so I don't think the manner of starting the game is relevant.

The LOD is generated and displayed correctly:

  Reveal hidden contents

If you situate yourself a suitable distance south of falkreath you can get a situation where both the LOD and the full model are displayed:

  Reveal hidden contents

CRC of the COTN - Falkreath.esp:

  Reveal hidden contents

When I took these screenshots I had uGridsToLoad = 5 and uLargeRefLODGridSize = 11. However, this time when I tested with uLargeRefLODGridSize = 5 the glitch still happened.

Active mods and plugins:

  Reveal hidden contents

The game version was 1.5.97. Here are the modlist and plugins in a text file format, along with my ini files: https://loadorderlibrary.com/lists/falkreath-test

I also did a quick test with the original COTN Falkreath plugin without the ESM flag, and the glitch did not happen.

If there's anything I forgot let me know.

Only load the plugin you want to update RNAMs for (xEdit should automatically load all required masters).
If it creates unresolved form IDs then, let me know a mod/plugin how to reproduce.

The problem with the wrong position/model does not happen after you generate RNAM for the plugin you flagged ESM?
E.g. the problem happens if a large reference is overwritten by an ESM without RNAM and the new cell / reference is not listed in any RNAM of any ESM plugin (OK that might be not trivial to test for your right now - I am just saying out loud the conditions)

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Mousetick Emperor

Mousetick

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13 hours ago, sheson said:

I would remove everything else from the plugin and only keep involved records and only test with the minimum number of plugins. That should at least quickly narrow it down to what records/changes are required to have the problem and others are more likely to be able to replicate it.

Yes I know what you mean. So here is attached the simplest test cases I could come up with in a relatively short time. Using a tiny ESP plugin that moves one large reference from one cell to another. The test cases demonstrate the bugs and behavior I previously described, once the ESP is ESM-flagged, and should be quite easy to reproduce.

Requirements: USSEP + ASLAL + SKSE.

Please see steps to reproduce the issue and other details in the included Readme.

Edit: uploaded new version, much improved and more comprehensive.

LR Cell Move Test.7z

 

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Blackread Guard

Blackread

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1 hour ago, sheson said:

Only load the plugin you want to update RNAMs for (xEdit should automatically load all required masters).
If it creates unresolved form IDs then, let me know a mod/plugin how to reproduce.

The problem with the wrong position/model does not happen after you generate RNAM for the plugin you flagged ESM?
E.g. the problem happens if a large reference is overwritten by an ESM without RNAM and the new cell / reference is not listed in any RNAM of any ESM plugin (OK that might be not trivial to test for your right now - I am just saying out loud the conditions)

I still have a couple plugins that get unresolved IDs even when loading alone, I'll attach them here. But it looks like, at least in the case of these plugins, it happens with disabled large refs.

I can't say what the exact conditions are for the wrong position glitch. What I can say though, is that running the RNAM script on COTN - Falkreath.esp after adding the ESM flag does not resolve the issue. Judging by the log output, in the case of this plugin, the script only adds new refs, and does not update the vanilla ones.

Spoiler 

[00.00] Start: Applying script "Skyrim SE - Generate Large References"
Gathering large references added by COTN - Falkreath.esp
New: [REFR:06005901] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse03 [STAT:0605BAE4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:0600AA02] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse03 [STAT:0605BAE4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:0601EE05] (places COTN_FalkreathGate [STAT:0601EE04] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:0601EE0C] (places COTN_FalkreathGate [STAT:0601EE04] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:06023F14] (places RoadStraight01 [STAT:0001C42F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:0602902B] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBotEmpty [STAT:060B6DF8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:0602902C] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBot [STAT:060B6DF7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExteriorOverlook [CELL:00009CA1] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-23))
New: [REFR:0602902D] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBot [STAT:060B6DF7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:0602902F] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBotEmpty [STAT:060B6DF8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:06033250] (places COTN_FalkreathInn [STAT:0603324F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:060569D0] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse02 [STAT:060569CF] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:060569DD] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse01 [STAT:06005900] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior06 [CELL:00009C60] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-21))
New: [REFR:0606FF10] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse04 [STAT:0606FF0F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:060987CD] (places COTN_FalkreathGate [STAT:0601EE04] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:060A29DA] (places NorDwelling01ExtBaseA [STAT:00046ED1] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:060A29DB] (places FXMistLow01LongHalfVis [MSTT:0007776E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:060A29DC] (places NorDwelling01IntA01 [STAT:00046ED8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:060A29DD] (places NorDwelling01ExtCourtA [STAT:00046ED3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:060B1CED] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse03 [STAT:0605BAE4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060BBEFA] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidL [STAT:060B6DF6] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060BBEFB] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTop [STAT:060B6DF4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060BBEFC] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidR [STAT:060B6DF5] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060BBEFD] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTop [STAT:060B6DF4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060BBEFE] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidR [STAT:060B6DF5] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExteriorOverlook [CELL:00009CA1] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-23))
New: [REFR:060BBEFF] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTop [STAT:060B6DF4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExteriorOverlook [CELL:00009CA1] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-23))
New: [REFR:060C1000] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidL [STAT:060B6DF6] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:060C1001] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTop [STAT:060B6DF4] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:060C1003] (places COTN_FalkreathArch [STAT:060B6DF9] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:060C100E] (places COTN_FalkreathArch [STAT:060B6DF9] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior02 [CELL:00009C7F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-22))
New: [REFR:060C1011] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse05 [STAT:06084398] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:060C6116] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseBalcony [STAT:060C6115] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C6145] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidL [STAT:060B6DF6] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C6146] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTopAlt [STAT:060F3AA2] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C6147] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBotEmpty [STAT:060B6DF8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C6148] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerMidR [STAT:060B6DF5] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C6149] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerBotEmpty [STAT:060B6DF8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060C614A] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTopAlt [STAT:060F3AA2] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060CB24E] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseBase [STAT:060CB24D] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060CB250] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseFront [STAT:060CB24F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060CB251] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseTop [STAT:060CB24B] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060CB253] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseSides [STAT:060CB252] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060CB25A] (places RockCliffMineEntrance [STAT:00043CD0] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:060CB25F] (places RockCaveEntrance01 [STAT:00017F1A] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:060D0362] (places COTN_FalkreathInnBase [STAT:060D0361] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:060D0364] (places COTN_FalkreathInnWalkway [STAT:060D0363] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior05 [CELL:00009C81] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-22))
New: [REFR:061085FE] (places RockL02 [STAT:0001819A] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:061086E4] (places COTN_FalkreathWatchtowerTopAlt [STAT:060F3AA2] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:0610D908] (places RockCliff07PineForest02 [STAT:0005B7DF] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:0614F6CC] (places RockCliff02Rocks01 [STAT:0002BABB] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:0614F6CE] (places RockCliff06 [STAT:0002B903] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:0614F6D3] (places RockCliff06 [STAT:0002B903] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:0616324F] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse02Base [STAT:0616324E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:061869A5] (places COTN_FalkreathArch [STAT:060B6DF9] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior04 [CELL:00009C5F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-21))
New: [REFR:0618BAB3] (places RockCliff05 [STAT:0002BAB8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior06 [CELL:00009C60] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-21))
New: [REFR:0618BAB5] (places RockCliff06 [STAT:0002B903] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:0618BABC] (places RockCliff01 [STAT:0001CF9F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:0618BABD] (places RockCliff01 [STAT:0001CF9F] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior06 [CELL:00009C60] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-21))
New: [REFR:06195CD2] (places RockCliff03 [STAT:00025DA8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C40] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -10,-20))
New: [REFR:06195CDB] (places RockCliff07 [STAT:0002B900] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:06195D06] (places MineScaffoldRopeLong01 [STAT:000455DE] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:06195D07] (places MineScaffoldRopeLong01 [STAT:000455DE] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:06195D08] (places MineScaffoldRopeLong01 [STAT:000455DE] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3F] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -9,-20))
New: [REFR:061B43DF] (places COTN_FalkreathArch [STAT:060B6DF9] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:061B4416] (places COTN_FalkreathHouse02Base [STAT:0616324E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior03 [CELL:00009C5E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -7,-21))
New: [REFR:061D2BE5] (places COTN_FalkreathArch [STAT:060B6DF9] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
New: [REFR:061DCDF3] (places COTN_FalkreathLonghouseStairs [STAT:061DCDF2] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009C3E] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-20))
New: [REFR:061DCDFC] (places FXMistLow01HalfVis [MSTT:00077773] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FalkreathExterior01 [CELL:00009C80] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -8,-22))
Adding 67 large references to Tamriel
[00.04] Done: Applying script "Skyrim SE - Generate Large References", Elapsed Time: 00.04

 

There's also the issue of large ref occlusion planes, which will also be affected by this glitch. So even after fixing the longhouse, the occlusion planes would still be left behind, and they'd need to be fixed too.

I'll attach the modified COTN - Falkreath.esp here too.

There are other mods I have seen this happen with too, like the aforementioned Great City of Solitude moving the Red Wave and RedBag's Rorikstead moving some cliffs in the surrounding area (which I separated into their own plugin, still resulting in this glitch). When going through all the overwritten large references I saw that at least Quaint Raven Rock also had several of these references that were moved to different cells, but I didn't inspect what that place looked like ingame prior to fixing it.

One other mod suffering from this is eFPS. There it's not very apparent though, because the planes are always inside buildings anyway. But I wager that many of the large reference planes they moved to other cells aren't actually where they expect them to be.

Large Ref Plugins.7z COTN - Falkreath.7z

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sheson Akatosh

sheson

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Posted
22 hours ago, Blackread said:

I still have a couple plugins that get unresolved IDs even when loading alone, I'll attach them here. But it looks like, at least in the case of these plugins, it happens with disabled large refs.

I can't say what the exact conditions are for the wrong position glitch. What I can say though, is that running the RNAM script on COTN - Falkreath.esp after adding the ESM flag does not resolve the issue. Judging by the log output, in the case of this plugin, the script only adds new refs, and does not update the vanilla ones.

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There's also the issue of large ref occlusion planes, which will also be affected by this glitch. So even after fixing the longhouse, the occlusion planes would still be left behind, and they'd need to be fixed too.

I'll attach the modified COTN - Falkreath.esp here too.

There are other mods I have seen this happen with too, like the aforementioned Great City of Solitude moving the Red Wave and RedBag's Rorikstead moving some cliffs in the surrounding area (which I separated into their own plugin, still resulting in this glitch). When going through all the overwritten large references I saw that at least Quaint Raven Rock also had several of these references that were moved to different cells, but I didn't inspect what that place looked like ingame prior to fixing it.

One other mod suffering from this is eFPS. There it's not very apparent though, because the planes are always inside buildings anyway. But I wager that many of the large reference planes they moved to other cells aren't actually where they expect them to be.

Large Ref Plugins.7z 7.07 kB · 1 download COTN - Falkreath.7z 596.12 kB · 1 download

Find line #161 in the Skyrim SE - Generate Large References.pas and change it to
SetElementEditValues(rnam, 'Ref', Name(e));

That should fix the unresolved form IDs.

To both @Blackread and @Mousetick, I am going to test some stuff around those large reference bugs over the next days. Thanks for all the information.

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Mousetick Emperor

Mousetick

Posted
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5 hours ago, sheson said:

I am going to test some stuff around those large reference bugs over the next days.

If you're going to try out my simple test plugin and accompanying test cases, I forgot to mention that I was using a vanilla configuration generated by Skyrim SE Launcher, particularly uLargeRefLODGridSize=9, which might be important to reproduce the bugs exactly as the tests intend to.

I've been doing some more tests on my side and I've given up on finding a pattern, trying to define a general rule. With some old/new cells combinations, I can't seem to be able to trigger the bug. There are too many factors involved, many unknown, so, short of reverse-engineering the whole caboodle, it seems impossible to predict the behavior. The position of old and new cells relative to each other, the position of the cells on the worldspace grid, the position of the cells in the RNAM table, the algorithm used to scan cells to load, the algorithm to load near references around the player, the algorithm to load large references around the player, the phase of the moon, etc. each may be a factor.

What's really interesting though about this bug is it shows the engine remembers the original position/scale/other properties of the large reference, as defined in its parent ESM (the one with the RNAM table). It must be keeping it around in memory somehow, otherwise it wouldn't be able to (incorrectly) load the reference at its original position/scale in the old cell.

5 hours ago, sheson said:

Thanks for all the information.

No problem. Glad to help a bit and return the favor, for once :)

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