Lexy's: Legacy of The Dragonborn Special Edition

[tyrindor]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3835/

Sadly none of those presets work all that great for experience mod in my opinion, so we have to open it up in SSEEdit and adjust the curve ourselves. The mod is just adjusting 2 vanilla settings, so permissions shouldn't be needed to make a version for the guide. It's gonna take testing to figure out whats a good XP rate with this amount of content.

 

Like someone else said, something like 400+(Lx15) might be ideal for a more linear leveling curve. This ensures you don't level too fast at the start, but also makes sure leveling doesn't become impossible later on.

[tyrindor]

Hi all, its been a while since I've visited and im quite eager to install this guide. my only question; is it likely/probable that upon getting this guide fully installed and operational that an update will be released for the guide that will require a complete reinstall of the guide? (not just some minor work). any advice would be great. it's just i imagine this will take me a few weeks to install (assuming I don't break it first try) and I'd hate to have to do it again. I'd rather just wait another 6 months to a year if that's the case.

 

Thanks for all your hard work, much love.

 

Roy

 

I'd always recommend not changing anything on an existing save because it almost always causes more bugs than it fixes. Set the guide up as-is, play, and leave it be. When you decide to start a new playthrough, do the guide from scratch again. The guide updates A LOT currently and it can be pretty hard to keep it up to date. Mods are still being added/removed/changed and it doesn't always play nice on existing saves. If you only want to do this process once, I'd at least wait until the guide is no longer considered beta.

 

I've done the guide from start to finish in about 10 hours, but my first time through was something like 30 hours. Buying a month of Nexus Premium helps if you have decent internet.

Edited October 22, 2018 by tyrindor

[thecrazyjoe]

Sadly none of those presets work all that great for experience mod in my opinion, so we have to open it up in SSEEdit and adjust the curve ourselves. The mod is just adjusting 2 vanilla settings, so permissions shouldn't be needed to make a version for the guide. It's gonna take testing to figure out whats a good XP rate with this amount of content.

 

Like someone else said, something like 400+(Lx15) might be ideal for a more linear leveling curve. This ensures you don't level too fast at the start, but also makes sure leveling doesn't become impossible later on.

Yep, like I said in my previous posts 

 

I chose 400 + L*15 after reading some feedback on these mod's comment sections, it seems that levelling (with Experience + vanilla curve) is way quicker until lvl 10-15 then more or less equal to vanilla until lvl 25-30 then slower and slower beyond this point. Tracing the curves give a more insightful view of what we can get:

 

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/43/1/1540217783-test.png

 

Also, I think lowering "exploration" XP values might be a good idea since "Map Markers complete" add many map locations, what do you think?

[LukeCreed13]

Is it just for me, or on the Prerequisites page the link to the new experimental SSEEdit is broken?

Edited October 22, 2018 by LukeCreed13

[DarkladyLexy]

Is it just for me, or on the Prerequisites page the link to the new experimental SSEEdit is broken?

it is think cos Sharlikran is doing a new update.

[LukeCreed13]

it is think cos Sharlikran is doing a new update.

Oh ok then, thanks Lexy.

[eclipsezero]

Chiming in real quick to point out Wheels of Lull has an Unofficial Patch that supposedly fixes things: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/19734

If you guys ever feel like adding that one back in :3

[tyrindor]

Yep, like I said in my previous posts 

 

I chose 400 + L*15 after reading some feedback on these mod's comment sections, it seems that levelling (with Experience + vanilla curve) is way quicker until lvl 10-15 then more or less equal to vanilla until lvl 25-30 then slower and slower beyond this point. Tracing the curves give a more insightful view of what we can get:

 

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/43/1/1540217783-test.png

 

Also, I think lowering "exploration" XP values might be a good idea since "Map Markers complete" add many map locations, what do you think?

The exploration XP values are already really low that I don't think they make much of a dent later. I will be leaving the XP values default (but enabling kill XP) and adjusting the curve instead. If it's too fast, we could always do something like 400 + L*20 or something. Personally I feel vanilla leveling is waaay too fast (I slow it down by 3-4x using uncapper).

 

 

Chiming in real quick to point out Wheels of Lull has an Unofficial Patch that supposedly fixes things: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/19734

If you guys ever feel like adding that one back in :3

 

It's on the test bench. https://trello.com/b/V4o4FPSl/lexys-legacy-of-the-dragonborn-special-edition-suggested-mods 

Edited October 22, 2018 by tyrindor

[Shadriss]

I Think Misc Quest is off by default in LE and SSE :  iXPQuestMisc=0

 

I just put XP killing and multi of 2.0 as it was suggested by Shadriss if I remember...

Yes. That was my recommendation on Discord, based on discussions that had been held there. Kill XP is really a minimal portion of the gains at higher levels, so it makes more sense to bump it up, especially with followers soaking up 20% of the gains (per follower). 

 

I don't recommend XP kill*2, that's too much imo leave it at 1.

 

Another point to note "Map marker" add hundred locations, maybe it's a good idea to lower all the "discovery" XP.

XP Mult of 1 does work well also - it was how I played my first time through with it. As to the second point, unless you are deliberately going out of your way to hit every possible location (which even I, an OCD gamer, do not do), it's not going to make a large difference in the outcome.

 

Yes it goes fast ! I passed from level 23 to 30 (doing it in LE not SSE for now until SSE update will be finish) just by doing the College of Winterhold Staff of Magnus Quest from start to returning with the staff... not fnished yet!  But I like to whole idea to get xp to complete things and it kinda rewarding see progression in XP it on the top left screen.

That's interesting... as I've noted on several occasions, I've completed several of the major addons (including Forgotten City and Grey Cowl) and a good bit of vanilla content, and only just hit 33 or 34. Not sure where our experiences (so to speak) differ, but that is a bit faster than makes sense. 

 

Consequence: with Experience and without curve tweaks, character progression is way too quick at the start then became too slow as we advance trough levels. A steadier curve like 400 + x *15 can (theoretically) offset that but need further testing in the long run to make adjustments.

This is, in general, exactly what we want (as determined by discussions on Discord). The idea is, like any major RPG game using similar XP systems, that early levels go quickly, and late ones go slowly. Consider this scenario: Bleak Falls Barrow is, by design, a starter dungeon. You are expected, in the normal course of things, to hit it as, essentially, your first real dungeon. In the original, leveled version of Skyrim, this is fine. In the OMEGA unleveled, however, the dungeon comes up as Lvl 21+. If you hit it at 10, it's gonna be rough. You need the early levels to be quicker so that, when you hit the supposed early content, you aren't getting turned into some Draugr's "close personal friend", shall we say. 

 

This early leveling is quick, but as noted, you don't want to be 150 at the higher end content either, so yes, the later levels come very slowly - again, as they should. Keep in mind also that a great deal of the early sources of experience (such as discovery and kills) also taper off significantly - you can only get the XP for a discovery once (no matter how many times you pass Whiterun...), and the kill XP falls off as the creature levels drop below yours. Add in the previously mentioned Follower cut of 20% of any XP gain, and all balances out.

 

Hi all, its been a while since I've visited and im quite eager to install this guide. my only question; is it likely/probable that upon getting this guide fully installed and operational that an update will be released for the guide that will require a complete reinstall of the guide? (not just some minor work). any advice would be great. it's just i imagine this will take me a few weeks to install (assuming I don't break it first try) and I'd hate to have to do it again. I'd rather just wait another 6 months to a year if that's the case.

 

Thanks for all your hard work, much love.

 

Roy

If you want to wait, feel free, but you'll be waiting forever. The guide updates. Frequently. Either you pick a version and run with it a while, then update in between runs, or you just never use it - no real in between.

[tyrindor]

This is, in general, exactly what we want (as determined by discussions on Discord). The idea is, like any major RPG game using similar XP systems, that early levels go quickly, and late ones go slowly. Consider this scenario: Bleak Falls Barrow is, by design, a starter dungeon. You are expected, in the normal course of things, to hit it as, essentially, your first real dungeon. In the original, leveled version of Skyrim, this is fine. In the OMEGA unleveled, however, the dungeon comes up as Lvl 21+. If you hit it at 10, it's gonna be rough. You need the early levels to be quicker so that, when you hit the supposed early content, you aren't getting turned into some Draugr's "close personal friend", shall we say. 

I was level 3 before stepping out into the world (just alternate start completion + starting scripts). Level 10 felt like an hour later. You don't level that fast in vanilla and surely OMEGA works with vanilla leveling speeds (or it'd be fundamentally flawed). As the guide currently stands (without experience mod), the current uncapper preset has us leveling even slower than vanilla and I haven't seen anyone have issues with leveling too slow in the early game. With deleveled zones you can rarely follow the intended main quest path. Having a quick boost to level 10/20 kinda defeats the purpose of deleveled zones and the "RPG feeling" of being weak and overcoming your enemies with time and effort.

 

It's gonna be preference based, some examples...

400 + L*15 for people who want more of a "flat" curve. I agree though, you'll probably get way too high of a level in the late game with a flat curve.

200 + L*25 for people who want a more reasonable starting leveling speed with default vanilla curve.

 

A base of 200 will make 1-10 take over twice as much time which will probably still be faster than vanilla leveling speed. I honestly might play around with a base of 250 or even 300 while keeping the vanilla leveling curve.

Edited October 22, 2018 by tyrindor

[Shadriss]

I was level 3 before stepping out into the world (just alternate start completion + starting scripts). Level 10 felt like an hour later. You don't level that fast in vanilla and surely OMEGA works with vanilla leveling speeds (or it'd be fundamentally flawed). As the guide currently stands (without experience mod), the current uncapper preset has us leveling even slower than vanilla and I haven't seen anyone have issues with leveling too slow in the early game. With deleveled zones you can rarely follow the intended main quest path. Having a quick boost to level 10/20 kinda defeats the purpose of deleveled zones and the "RPG feeling" of being weak and overcoming your enemies with time and effort.

 

It's gonna be preference based...

First, if you have it on during character generation, you're already wrong. It has no ESP file, so there is no reason you can't turn it on AFTER generating your character and setting up MCM. This avoids all the background 'quest' completions that boosted you to 3+. Once everything is set up, but before you choose your start location, Save, exit, turn on XP, then go back to the game. Level 10 around an hour is sounds right though... that's right about where I hit it when heading to BFB.

 

WRT to OMEGA and working with leveling speeds, it makes no assumptions about this - it simply delevels the world. That being the case, it doesn't need to make assumptions at all - it simply sets up given areas as a given level range. This does not, however, prevent you from trying them earlier than 'recommended'. My BFB example is a case of that, and on Discord there was another player who attempted it with two followers at 6 with... eventually success. 

 

Also, keep in mind my recommendations and settings are more tailored to the more 'casual' gamer - the ones who don't immediately dial the difficulty up to "Satan Is In Charge Of Your Life". I, personally, don't care to get frustrated with a game - I can be fine with getting killed on occasion when I've been taken by surprise or because I'm not using a mechanic in the game I should be. Getting railroaded by 10 draugr repeatedly, taking several days to work my way through, is not my idea of entertaining, and it is with that mentality in mind that I provide these kind of settings.

 

Additionally, your concept of what the RPG feeling of a game is and mine are very obviously different. I grew up on Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and the like - while they all started as grind type games, they all quickly evolved into a system where an area was tailored to an expected level for a given point in the story. A game like Skyrim can't do that - it's too open. The Bethesda solution was deleveling, which many don't care for. OMEGA goes back to a leveled system, and that's fine - my expectation, though, would be based on a roughly vanilla experience - which means BFB would be very early in a playthrough, and I'd expect, as a player, to be in the rough level range for a given area when I hit it.

 

As you indicated, leveling is going to be, largely, preference based. In this case, what you are looking for and what I am are very obviously two different things. Not an issue - just an identification of fact, I think. There's nothing wrong with what you are speaking about, but I would make it clear the kind of game environment you are attempting to create with those settings, as I have just attempted to do.

 

Regardless - love this mod. :)

[thecrazyjoe]

Yes. That was my recommendation on Discord, based on discussions that had been held there. Kill XP is really a minimal portion of the gains at higher levels, so it makes more sense to bump it up, especially with followers soaking up 20% of the gains (per follower). 

 

XP Mult of 1 does work well also - it was how I played my first time through with it. As to the second point, unless you are deliberately going out of your way to hit every possible location (which even I, an OCD gamer, do not do), it's not going to make a large difference in the outcome.

 

That's interesting... as I've noted on several occasions, I've completed several of the major addons (including Forgotten City and Grey Cowl) and a good bit of vanilla content, and only just hit 33 or 34. Not sure where our experiences (so to speak) differ, but that is a bit faster than makes sense. 

 

This is, in general, exactly what we want (as determined by discussions on Discord). The idea is, like any major RPG game using similar XP systems, that early levels go quickly, and late ones go slowly. Consider this scenario: Bleak Falls Barrow is, by design, a starter dungeon. You are expected, in the normal course of things, to hit it as, essentially, your first real dungeon. In the original, leveled version of Skyrim, this is fine. In the OMEGA unleveled, however, the dungeon comes up as Lvl 21+. If you hit it at 10, it's gonna be rough. You need the early levels to be quicker so that, when you hit the supposed early content, you aren't getting turned into some Draugr's "close personal friend", shall we say. 

 

This early leveling is quick, but as noted, you don't want to be 150 at the higher end content either, so yes, the later levels come very slowly - again, as they should. Keep in mind also that a great deal of the early sources of experience (such as discovery and kills) also taper off significantly - you can only get the XP for a discovery once (no matter how many times you pass Whiterun...), and the kill XP falls off as the creature levels drop below yours. Add in the previously mentioned Follower cut of 20% of any XP gain, and all balances out.

 

If you want to wait, feel free, but you'll be waiting forever. The guide updates. Frequently. Either you pick a version and run with it a while, then update in between runs, or you just never use it - no real in between.

I understand but like tyrindor said and even considering the deleveled dungeons requirement, the first levels are ridiculously fast with Experience. I don't think you're suposed to be level 15 in like 2 hours even with Omega, it's gamebreaking to me and need some adjustments at least.

 

I was level 3 before stepping out into the world (just alternate start completion + starting scripts). Level 10 felt like an hour later. You don't level that fast in vanilla and surely OMEGA works with vanilla leveling speeds (or it'd be fundamentally flawed). As the guide currently stands (without experience mod), the current uncapper preset has us leveling even slower than vanilla and I haven't seen anyone have issues with leveling too slow in the early game. With deleveled zones you can rarely follow the intended main quest path. Having a quick boost to level 10/20 kinda defeats the purpose of deleveled zones and the "RPG feeling" of being weak and overcoming your enemies with time and effort.

 

It's gonna be preference based, some examples...

400 + L*15 for people who want more of a "flat" curve. I agree though, you'll probably get way too high of a level in the late game with a flat curve.

200 + L*25 for people who want a more reasonable starting leveling speed with default vanilla curve.

 

A base of 200 will make 1-10 take over twice as much time which will probably still be faster than vanilla leveling speed. I honestly might play around with a base of 250 or even 300 while keeping the vanilla leveling curve.

Alright, I stay at 400+x15 atm and we'll see how it goes.

[Shadriss]

I understand but like tyrindor said and even considering the deleveled dungeons requirement, the first levels are ridiculously fast with Experience. I don't think you're suposed to be level 15 in like 2 hours even with Omega, it's gamebreaking to me and need some adjustments at least.

Feel free - as I noted above, and as Tyrindor said, leveling is purely subjective. I would submit, however, that having to wait 2+ hours to be in the level range for what is supposed to be the first major dungeon area might be... much. I'm not sure I would call it 'gamebreaking', as that implies the game cannot be progressed in... more the opposite. Like Tyrindor, you're looking for far more difficulty than I am. So I'll leave this as it is, and let you get on with your version. :) So long as the guide, itself, doesn't start making those kinds of changes, I think we're fine here. And again, all the caveats I've made here and on Discord still apply - I can only speak to about 35 or so, which took me around 60 or 70 hours to get to.

[tyrindor]

Feel free - as I noted above, and as Tyrindor said, leveling is purely subjective. I would submit, however, that having to wait 2+ hours to be in the level range for what is supposed to be the first major dungeon area might be... much. I'm not sure I would call it 'gamebreaking', as that implies the game cannot be progressed in... more the opposite. Like Tyrindor, you're looking for far more difficulty than I am. So I'll leave this as it is, and let you get on with your version. :) So long as the guide, itself, doesn't start making those kinds of changes, I think we're fine here. And again, all the caveats I've made here and on Discord still apply - I can only speak to about 35 or so, which took me around 60 or 70 hours to get to.

When experience mod is officially added to the guide, 1-20 will be vastly faster than it is in the current version of the guide unless the leveling curve is adjusted. If we want to keep the XP rate about the same, adjusting base XP will be necessary. 1-10 with experience mod is probably upwards of 3-4 times faster than the current OMEGA uncapper preset the guide uses. We should try to somewhat match the XP rate to the same speed as the OMEGA uncapper preset. By not doing that, it's hurting the early game in my opinion and OMEGA definitely does not intend for players to hit level 10 within an hour of playing.

 

You want your game's early game to be faster/easier and that's fine, but you are leveling waaay faster than anyone who followed the current version of the guide. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by tyrindor

[Shadriss]

Which, as I've pointed out, is offset by how slowly that same leveling happens in later levels. The game is in the quests and the chains of events - not wandering around aimlessly, grinding XP, waiting to do baseline vanilla content until much later in the game. That kind of play does not make sense, and is contrary to how the game was originally designed. I do not see the sense in waiting through three or four hours of grinding so I can do was was intended as the first major quest of the game - it does not stand to reason.

 

I understand where you are coming from - really, I do. The reasoning, however, doesn't match my experience in the game as far as I've taken it. You say that having leveling that fast initially is hurting the early game - I submit that areas like BFB are the early game, and if you are unable to attain sufficient power to play those areas, we are artificially extending a game that has no real defined ending even more than is reasonable... at least, in my estimation.

 

My remaining questions from your last statement are these: on what do you base your statement about what OMEGA does or does not intend with regard to leveling, and on what you you base your statement that I'm "leveling waaay faster than anyone who followed the current version of the guide" when everything and everyone I've talked to (excluding you) appear to agree with my assessments in conversation? If I'm wrong about something, I'm good with admiting that - you've seen that in the past - but at the moment, all I'm seeing is blanket statements that are not, so far as I've seen, warranted. A difference in what we want is one thing - we've already agreed that it's a matter of taste - but those statements would indicate things you believe to be facts that are not in evidence, that I've seen.