Abandoned Mods

[Nebulous112]

@Tech: I think either 60 or 90 is fine. I imagine you would get more buy-in from authors with 90, though.

[GrantSP]

I'm of a different opinion. 60 or 90 days are still way too short, there could be all manner of reasons why an author can't get to his mod for 3 or more months, I'd be really upset if returning from an extended illness to find my work now taken over by another. For the sake of clarity I was totally unable to do anything for nearly a year before returning to some form of normality (that may be questioned as to what is 'normality').

 

If a mod is left untouched for a year that is a pretty good sign the author is gone, either from modding or life.

 

If you want a shorter period then I suggest a subsequent clause whereby the original author can return and take up the mantle again with the child mods removed if only minor edits were made. If more major changes are involved then either collaboration between them or divergent paths to the same goal by the mods.

[JUNKdeLUXE]

How sick does one have to be to check your inbox and reply: "not dead, don't touch my mod" if given a 2-3 months grace period?

 

I've had a very serious depression for 3 years, but I'd still be able reply to a mail...

sigh.. how sick does one have to be NOT to check...

 

 

edit I miss you already :P

hmm.. multiple posts after each other adds the posts together... Never seen that before.

[GrantSP]

...

 

I've had a very serious depression for 3 years, but I'd still be able reply to a mail...

...

Then you were VERY fortunate. Others, myself included, were not. 

[redirishlord]

I'm of a different opinion. 60 or 90 days are still way too short, there could be all manner of reasons why an author can't get to his mod for 3 or more months, I'd be really upset if returning from an extended illness to find my work now taken over by another. For the sake of clarity I was totally unable to do anything for nearly a year before returning to some form of normality (that may be questioned as to what is 'normality').

 

If a mod is left untouched for a year that is a pretty good sign the author is gone, either from modding or life.

 

If you want a shorter period then I suggest a subsequent clause whereby the original author can return and take up the mantle again with the child mods removed if only minor edits were made. If more major changes are involved then either collaboration between them or divergent paths to the same goal by the mods.

I'm glad we didn't lose you Grant. One solution to that scenario would be to nominate a "caretaker" to receive communication on the author's behalf; another might be the Nexus posting a notice " author on leave of absence for a known / unknown amount of time, please wait for notice of return before attempting further communication, mod remains owned by author until formally abandoned" or something better worded. I sure a conversation between authors & Nexus to create a "Modders' Bill of Rights" and some template "Modder's Will & Testaments" would produce productive results. The provision to customize due to the wishes of the individual author could be left open, but having the author's Nexus page come with easy push button functionality that gives ready access to popular premade selections.

[JUNKdeLUXE]

Then you were VERY fortunate. Others, myself included, were not. 

I certainly didn't feel like it :)  It's the worst thing I've ever been through, that's for sure..  but yes, others might have had it worse, not had the same backup etc.

 

 

Lets just agree that it's not very pleasant and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy :)

[TechAngel85]

Of course the original author could return and pick it back up, but it would, more than likely, be a group effort with whoever picked it up after it's been converted to Open Distribution and Open Modification due to an abandonment event. In true honesty, I feel if an author truly supports open modding they would not mind this happening so the mod does not become outdated during the time of their absence.

 

I could put a clause in there that states if the original author returns to find the mod outside the scope of their original intent, the original author would have authority to correct the intent and direction of the mod. Also, if the changes are major, then the mod is to be forked where both the original and new mod exist.

[Nebulous112]

Why not make it 90 days, and whenever a mod is declared abandoned (for whatever reason), it is allowed to be forked. Any changes to the mod by new author(s) occur on the fork.

 

Assuming the mod is being hosted on Nexus, it would need a new page anyway. That way, if the author ever returns, he still has his old mod untouched. But it allows updates for the mod to continue.

 

Branches could then be merged in the future if the original author wants to start work on it again (assuming the parties are amenable), but I don't think that needs to be explicitly laid out in the Open Modding Agreement.

[TechAngel85]

Why not make it 90 days, and whenever a mod is declared abandoned (for whatever reason), it is allowed to be forked. Any changes to the mod by new author(s) occur on the fork.

 

Assuming the mod is being hosted on Nexus, it would need a new page anyway. That way, if the author ever returns, he still has his old mod untouched. But it allows updates for the mod to continue.

 

Branches could then be merged in the future if the original author wants to start work on it again (assuming the parties are amenable), but I don't think that needs to be explicitly laid out in the Open Modding Agreement.

Thanks, I like this!

[TechAngel85]

This is how it now reads:
 

4. If the author is not active within 90 days neither on their mod page nor replies to any correspondence (e.g. PMs, emails, thread activity, etc), the mod is considered retired and converts to Open Modification.

    1. Retired mods may be forked by the community to continue the original authors work, to keep the mod updated for compatibility, and/or create other works.
        1. Forked mod must be released with an Open Modding Agreement; else, the fork is not authorized.
        2. If the original author should return to the original mod, any forked mods only consisting of compatibility updates with the original mod's masters should be absorbed into the original mod with credit given to the authors of the forked mods for their support.

 

[GrantSP]

Why not make it 90 days, and whenever a mod is declared abandoned (for whatever reason), it is allowed to be forked. Any changes to the mod by new author(s) occur on the fork.

 

Assuming the mod is being hosted on Nexus, it would need a new page anyway. That way, if the author ever returns, he still has his old mod untouched. But it allows updates for the mod to continue.

 

Branches could then be merged in the future if the original author wants to start work on it again (assuming the parties are amenable), but I don't think that needs to be explicitly laid out in the Open Modding Agreement.

I can get onboard with this idea. Well done.

[baronaatista]

I'm probably not qualified to be a part of this conversation, and I certainly don't want to steer it back in a 'negative' direction but I feel I have something valid to contribute;

 

You cannot discount the idea that the community - and the world as a whole would be better for all with more openness, sharing and less possessiveness.  This is not some philosophical abstract but a genuine change that is possible, and perhaps inevitable (as technology improves and resources become less centralized).  The cathedral view is the morally superior view as I see it - we can make this change, in small ways by enacting these sorts of principles - as artists, as scientists, mathemeticians, philosphers and so on.  Until we can stand on the shoulders of giants that we have built together, and see for miles.  I would argue that it was wrong of the author of Wyrmstooth to take the mod down when they departed the community.

 

However.  It is also morally wrong to take a persons creation and do things with it they have explicitly stated they do not want you to do.  We do live in a world currently where property rights, intellectual and otherwise do matter and can impact peoples lives, jobs, and so on.  I completely agree actually with Synthetik when he says that you shouldn't just acquiesce to laws or principles that you don't agree with.  Smoking weed is illegal but I think that the entire basis of it being illegal is complete bunk, and I'm not harming anyone but myself in doing it (if even that), so I don't give a flying frog what the law says, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.  Key point there is 'not harming anyone but myself' though.  The golden rule.  When you steal a mod authors mod, you are harming that person.  You can call them a baby if you like, because you disagree.  Perhaps they are being a bit of a baby.  They are a productive baby though - one that is making valid contributions to the community.  Stealing from them makes them feel disrespected and disenfranchised.  They are less likely to continue to contribute, and then you have harmed the community.

 

Now I don't want to spread any hatred towards this Synthetik character, as that too is morally wrong.  I think his intentions are good, but he is misguided.  I think Kryptopyr was trying to get across a pretty important point though that did seem to be brushed under the rug a bit.  He absolutely was - hypothetical or not - advocating the stealing and distribution of abandoned mods.  Again I'm not trying to crucify the guy here.  I have no reason to believe that he himself had any intention of doing so, and that he was merely arguing an idealogical standpoint.  However.  

What I'm trying to say is if you don't like the system, then don't honor it.

This is not exactly ambiguous.  Everybody pretty much stated that they don't agree with him, but a lot of the vibe was sort of 'everybody has a right to an opinion'.  Sure, free speech, yadda yadda.  Of course I agree.  However I'm not sure it was really properly acknowledged just how toxic these ideas are to just about everyone involved, and especially the community as a whole.  This is not cool, and it is not a productive way to shape or change the community, and it's important to be clear about that. 

[baronaatista]

Id like to add that the ethical way to influence the community is simply to promote the cathedral view and ideally provide examples of it's benefits - such as was being discussed.

[MonoAccipiter]

A modder's will sounds pretty good to me - a way of appeasing both sides nicely. It keeps minimally altered versions from popping up when you're still actively developing something, and at the same time makes sure good ideas can keep growing even if you don't have the time to develop them anymore. Forking obviously would need more work to implement, but that could potentially automate a lot of things like linking back to the original mod, giving proper credits, inheriting permissions et cetera.

 

EDIT: Should point out I somehow missed an entire page of posts when posting this.

Edited June 19, 2016 by MonoAccipiter

[Greg]

I think 4.1.1 should be amended to state the original author must be credited in the fork.

 

Should it be explicitly stated that any forked mod containing modifications shall remain forked unless both authors agree to pass back the modifications to the original author with credit to the author adding the modifications?

 

 

4. If the author is not active within 90 days neither on their mod page nor replies to any correspondence (e.g. PMs, emails, thread activity, etc), the mod is considered retired and converts to Open Modification.

    1. Retired mods may be forked by the community to continue the original authors work, to keep the mod updated for compatibility, and/or create other works.
        1. Forked mod must be released with an Open Modding Agreement and with credit to the original author; else, the fork is not authorized.
        2. If the original author should return to the original mod, any forked mods only consisting of compatibility updates with the original mod's masters should be absorbed into the original mod with credit given to the authors of the forked mods for their support. Forked mod containing modifications may remain forked or the author of the modifications may merge the modifications into the original mod if agreed by the original author with the original author giving credit given to the author of the modifications.

Something like this, although I'm not finding a good way to phrase 4.1.2 before coffee.