Abandoned Mods

[hishutup]

I wish that the Nexus was fine with updating abandoned mods. There was a few mods that I want to take care of but perms were closed. The files were really simple and not something that one should be able to cr.

[kryptopyr]

I wish that the Nexus was fine with updating abandoned mods. There was a few mods that I want to take care of but perms were closed. The files were really simple and not something that one should be able to cr.

If they are simple mods, then just remake them yourself.  Just because you can't use the file from the original mod, doesn't mean you can't take the idea and recreate it from scratch as a new mod.  With some mods "making them again from scratch" is certainly a prohibitive amount of work, but if you're talking about fairly simple mods, then I don't see the problem.  This is essentially what I did with WAF and CCO (though those particular mods were somewhat time consuming to remake).  I wanted to keep using the mods, but they needed to be updated and the original author was no longer around.  So I took a few months to personally check each and every weapon and armor record in the CK, and re-made the fixes myself without relying on any of the work from the original mod.  As long as you're doing the work and making the mod from scratch without any of the original assets, then you should be fine.

[moho25]

As far as abandoned mods, we can only hope that Nexus will change the views and ToS, but don't count on it. The parlor view in the community is really becoming apparent with this news. Open Modding! Viva la revolution!

As a mod author, I would hope not. Nexus can't change their TOS retroactively. Not legally, anyway. They might decide to change it moving forward, but it any change can't apply to existing mods. If I go AFK, I expect them to respect my wishes.

 

I'll be as pissed off as the next gal, if I lose the ability to use certain mods by transitioning to SSE (if I transition to SSE), but every mod author has the right to set permissions for their own work. Some modders embrace open permissions, others do not. I respect both viewpoints, but I fall into the latter camp. Many of us pore thousands of hours of work into our projects, and, well, it is -- and should be -- our choice.

[TechAngel85]

I agree that it should be a choice. I just find it a shame that some authors completely shut down their mods from any sort of open permissions even after I they've retired from modding. It would be nice if they would open up the permissions so that the mod doesn't die or others be forced to redo all of the work. The community used to be far more open modding during Morrowind/Oblivion days, from my understanding, and was actually more of a "community" where everyone shared knowledge and helped one another. STEP follows this philosophy. The closed permissions and parlor view is a more recent popularity in comparison that I simply don't agree with, but authors will make the choice they make.

[hishutup]

For abandoned mods I like how people like insanity do things and that is what I mean by abandoned

 

 

==================
Modder's Will:
==================

If I am offline for six months or longer and do not respond to any attempts made at contacting me, I give full Ownership of my Projects to TES Alliance.

TES Alliance are free to modify/redistribute/remove as they see fit.

[MonoAccipiter]

For abandoned mods I like how people like insanity do things and that is what I mean by abandoned

That pack was so small the last time I played Skyrim. 

 

I kinda do the same thing, except my policy is pretty much that people can do whatever they want with my mods as long as they credit me. The problem is that some of the mods I have made have been modifications on other people's work/or using resources from other people (e.g. I borrowed the light switch models from ILO) hence I can't always say "go right ahead". Though on my gun I actually did so, and I think some guy ported it to Fallout 4. Would be kinda weird if I didn't do that as my favorite thing to do has basically been improving on other people's ideas (e.g. NNBS & NVInterior Rewritten). 

[SynthetikHD]

This post does not reflect the position of the STEP community, and it definitely approaches advocacy of breaching the modding code of ethics (i.e., copyright infringement). Using "what if?" and "I think" kinds of wording would disambiguate, so let this be a warning to SynthetikHD and any onlookers that would post in kind here or anywhere else on this site. -z929669

 

Can someone please tell me what would be stopping anyone from simply taking someone else's old abandoned mod that you want to update, and uploading it somewhere else besides the Nexus for people to download? (but still giving them credit/their name on it/etc)

If you think that there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with that, which there really isn't, then who cares? Honestly?
If there's some guy that made a cool mod years ago but is a jerk that says he doesn't want anyone to update it for SSE, what is he going to do to stop me? If there is some other dude who made an awesome mod years ago but hasn't been active for years and his mods need updating...what is he going to do if I update his mods for other people to enjoy?

I've just honestly really never understood this...if you do not agree with the parlor view of modding, then don't honor it. Simple.

If the Nexus doesn't want you to upload updated versions of someone else's mods, then upload it to one of the literally thousands of data hosting sites that don't have a problem with it. Simple.

 

EDIT: Removing post text makes no sense if it is quoted on a following post ... I replaced the missing text in this post to make the topic easier to follow.

Edited June 17, 2016 by z929669

[Nebulous112]

Can someone please tell me what would be stopping anyone from simply taking someone else's old abandoned mod that you want to update, and uploading it somewhere else besides the Nexus for people to download? (but still giving them credit/their name on it/etc)

 

If you think that there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with that, which there really isn't, then who cares? Honestly?

If there's some guy that made a cool mod years ago but is a jerk that says he doesn't want anyone to update it for SSE, what is he going to do to stop me? If there is some other dude who made an awesome mod years ago but hasn't been active for years and his mods need updating...what is he going to do if I update his mods for other people to enjoy?

 

I've just honestly really never understood this...if you do not agree with the parlor view of modding, then don't honor it. Simple.

 

If the Nexus doesn't want you to upload updated versions of someone else's mods, then upload it to one of the literally thousands of data hosting sites that don't have a problem with it. Simple.

Ethics. Morality. Honor. The fact that you agreed to Nexus ToS.

 

I mean, of course, you are logically right. If I do not believe stealing is wrong, what is to prevent me from stealing?

 

But that is a very slippery slope...the same logic was used when mods were stolen from Nexus for Fallout 4 and put on Bethesda.net for consoles.

 

The result: A near catastrophe. Modders went on strike and pulled their mods. Pitchforks and torches were brought to the Bethesda forum, and due to the outcry, now a valid Steam account linked to the CK is needed to upload mods to Bethesda.net, with the implication being that mod thieves will get their Steam accounts banned.

 

If you want a functional society you have to play by the rules, even if you don't like them. Otherwise chaos ensues, and everyone is worse off.

[SynthetikHD]

But that is different, those mods were stolen and credit was not given. The mods were not changed, or updated, the authors were not inactive, permission was not asked first, etc. It's a much different situation.

 

EDIT: Removing post text makes no sense if it is quoted on a following post ... I replaced the missing text in this post to make the topic easier to follow.

Edited June 17, 2016 by z929669

[Greg]

It may seem to be a much different situation, but it really falls under copyright. If I create an original work like a mod, I own the exclusive rights to that mod so you need explicit permission from the author to modify or distribute that mod. If the author borrowed assets from other authors with permission, you also need explicit permission from those authors. Some authors may use open source of creative licenses that grant others the right to modify and/or distribute their mods with or without credit, but these rights must be explicitly spelled out. You'll see a lot of mods that have no such grant of rights. Others explicitly state you may not under any circumstances distribute my mod and this is a legally binding right.

[Nebulous112]

But that is different, those mods were stolen and credit was not given. The mods were not changed, or updated, the authors were not inactive, permission was not asked first, etc. It's a much different situation.

I agree it was a different situation, but the logic is the same.

 

Whether you give credit or not, whether the mod was changed or not, whether the author is inactive or not: all of this is irrelevant. You are still taking someone else's work without permission and redistributing it in some form.

 

Don't get me wrong...I don't like this system. I believe Nexus should change their ToS to be more cathedral friendly. Perhaps automatic provisions for inactivity, with an opt-out if the author desires.

 

But as it stands right now, when authors published their mods, they did so with the expectation that their permissions would not be violated. If you got a hold of half of the inactive authors, I bet they would have no problem with someone updating their mods. But the problem is that no one CAN get a hold of these people.

 

The system is not the greatest right now... But that doesn't change the fact that without the author's explicit permission it is unethical to redistribute their work.

[hishutup]

It may seem to be a much different situation, but it really falls under copyright. If I create an original work like a mod, I own the exclusive rights to that mod so you need explicit permission from the author to modify or distribute that mod. If the author borrowed assets from other authors with permission, you also need explicit permission from those authors. Some authors may use open source of creative licenses that grant others the right to modify and/or distribute their mods with or without credit, but these rights must be explicitly spelled out. You'll see a lot of mods that have no such grant of rights. Others explicitly state you may not under any circumstances distribute my mod and this is a legally binding right.

Why can't we all make mods for fun and share them without making this so serious. :D

[TechAngel85]

For abandoned mods I like how people like insanity do things and that is what I mean by abandoned

We (STEP) have a similar arrangement with kryptopyr and other authors. I have an Open Modding Agreement in the works that basically says the same thing as well:

 

3. Limited Modification refers to the original author maintaining artistic rights of their mod until said author retires the mod.

    Under Limited Modification, third-party modifications are submitted to the original author to incorporate into the original mod or to be uploaded as optional files.

        The original author must make due diligence to review all modifications submitted to them.

        The original author holds the decision of whether submitted modifications are best incorporated or hosted separately.

    Any modifications mod to an original mod should be incorporated into said mod, unless otherwise directed by the original author.

        Mods which the author decides are best hosted separately will be uploaded by their original authors; not by the author of the parent mod.

    Once the author retires said mod, the mod is converted to Open Modification and all future modifications should be incorporated into the original mod.

    If the author is not active within 30 days of of any correspondence (e.g. PMs, emails, thread activity, etc), the mod is considered retired and converts to Open Modification.

 

30 days should be more than a reasonable amount of time for authors to respond to correspondences.

 

Can someone please tell me what would be stopping anyone from simply taking someone else's old abandoned mod that you want to update, and uploading it somewhere else besides the Nexus for people to download? (but still giving them credit/their name on it/etc)

 

If you think that there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with that, which there really isn't, then who cares? Honestly?

If there's some guy that made a cool mod years ago but is a jerk that says he doesn't want anyone to update it for SSE, what is he going to do to stop me? If there is some other dude who made an awesome mod years ago but hasn't been active for years and his mods need updating...what is he going to do if I update his mods for other people to enjoy?

 

I've just honestly really never understood this...if you do not agree with the parlor view of modding, then don't honor it. Simple.

 

If the Nexus doesn't want you to upload updated versions of someone else's mods, then upload it to one of the literally thousands of data hosting sites that don't have a problem with it. Simple.

It simply comes down to respecting the author's wishes and I that should sum up that topic.

[SynthetikHD]

But there is literally no way to enforce that copyright. It is technically completely meaningless. Therefore there is still nothing stopping someone from updating or changing some inactive guys mod.

What I'm trying to say is if you don't like the system, then don't honor it. If you don't believe in the Nexus' ToS, then don't use the Nexus. Mod authors technically have no enforceable rights in regards to their mods, and should know that when they upload their mods. And people that steal/update someone elses mod faces no repercussions other than a possible Steam/Nexus account ban.

But here's the thing....no one here thinks it is unethical. So is it really unethical? Like you said "they would have no problem with someone updating their mods." So how could it be unethical?

 

EDIT: Removing post text makes no sense if it is quoted on a following post ... I replaced the missing text in this post to make the topic easier to follow.

Edited June 17, 2016 by z929669

[Nebulous112]

But there is literally no way to enforce that copyright. It is technically completely meaningless. Therefore there is still nothing stopping someone from updating or changing some inactive guys mod.

 

What I'm trying to say is if you don't like the system, then don't honor it. If you don't believe in the Nexus' ToS, then don't use the Nexus. Mod authors technically have no enforceable rights in regards to their mods, and should know that when they upload their mods. And people that steal/update someone elses mod faces no repercussions other than a possible Steam/Nexus account ban.

 

But here's the thing....no one here thinks it is unethical. So is it really unethical? Like you said "they would have no problem with someone updating their mods." So how could it be unethical?

Whether a law is enforceable or not is irrelevant. If I am speeding down the highway in the middle of nowhere, I am still speeding. If I murder someone in the hypothetical perfect crime, I am still a murderer.

 

And I understand what you are saying...if you don't believe in the system, do not follow it - but I think you are missing what I am saying. The mod author believed in the system, or at least, we have to assume he did. The only way we would know differently is if they gave alternate permissions, and in that case, this discussion does not apply.

 

This isn't about what you believe in, this is about what the author believed in. You are forcing your beliefs on others... It is not your rights that would be violated, it is the author's. Their assumed agreement to the current system is what matters.

 

And I said that half the authors would likely have no problem with people updating their mods. But the problem is the other half. Or third. Or tenth. We can't get a hold of these people, so we cannot presume to know what they would want.

 

Like Tech said, it is about respecting the author's wishes. And when we don't know their wishes, we can't just presume they would want the outcome that is favorable to us.