stoppingby4now

I used RLwC for awhile pre 3.4. The problem with it now is there is too much being added that conflicts with other mods. But I originally dropped RLwC personally due primarily to the shadows. It's not realistic, as they adjust the shadows in an attempt to keep them uniform when you adjust lighting. The problem is, the entire shadow is uniform such that ambient light does not affect them anymore, and the only way to fake it is to adjust the brightness. This also breaks depth of shadows, which is especially noticeable when looking at trees.

Well said Bealdwine. I never played EQ2, but have tried AoC and Rift as well, and they didn't keep me for long. Though Rift did bring a few nice contributions to help make your leveling experience a little less boring. AoC was beautiful, but way too buggy and not enough stuff to do. I absolutely loved the initial story line in the beginning though. My favorite years were in WoW from game launch till about year 4. I remember when the great portal finally opened. I was so proud at the amount of gold I had accumulated playing the AH prior, and I practically doubled it in a few weeks just from quests. That was the first moment that I felt the epic feel of the game slip away.

Customizing lanterns and locations? Sign me up!

I just looked over Fri's listing again. I completely forgot about Thief, I loved that entire series! Also Assassins Creed, Starcraft and Warcraft, Quake (and old school Wolfenstein 3D), Half Life, 5 year stint in WoW, Prince of Persia The Sands of Time.

The post was marked as spam. I unmarked it and deleted it when it re-added to the forum since the information is in the paste bin.

I love Real Rain! Haven't tried 3.0 yet. I was using the textures only version along with More Rain by Zappoo (heavy and darker version). It significantly improved the realism of rain storms.

My most recently played games are Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, and I still play Left 4 Dead 2 a lot (Expert Realism baby!). Oh, and the occasional minesweeper when I'm waiting for an Ah-HAH! moment. :)

I'm jealous! :P For typical games today that cater to the masses, you really can't go wrong with either ATI or nVidia. But in this current time period (once you weed through the plethora of useless fanboy material), nVidia has a noticeable lead in ATI for having better Windows support, and hands down superior cross platform support. ATI's HD audio over HDMI is still a cludge on Windows, and non-existent on Linux, to which nVidia has had driver support for well over a year.

It's the chupacabra you have to watch out for.

At least we can rule out Gremlins. :)

After looking at your first picture again, I agree that the first entry for Users on your Skyrim folder is bogus. No idea what the Special permissions were, but it was unnecessary. However the rest of the permissions were 100% valid and I could write up an entire page on why. For permissions on TESV.exe, since you just forced permissions across your entire drive, it would have overwritten all permissions that were set previously on all files. Could you do me a favor and cycle Automatic Updates with SU and check the advanced security permissions on TESV.exe again. Unless permissions were overwritten previously as well, there is no valid scenario I can think of as to why SU wouldn't have set the permissions. I really need to understand what is happening here so I can know if there are any special cases I need to account for.

My point is that you didn't gain anything with those new permissions. The default that was there before was just as secure. There was also no redundancy, just specialized permissions which were applied by Steam so that any user can play a game. Inheritance != redundancy. In any case, you have stated that you do not end up with a Deny rule on your TESV.exe. Can you show me a listing of the advanced security permissions for it. Administrator privileges are not needed to create it (either with your old or new permissions).

Your permissions were perfectly fine before, nothing screwy about them. If your TESV.exe (or any of the other Skyrim files I modify) do not have permissions on them, that tells me you are not using the latest version of SU. Starting with V1.2 is when the permission changes came in. Given that SkyrimLauncher.exe uses the Steam_api.dll, it would likely either use the Service to perform actions, or behave like Steam in the case of having UAC turned off. Having the Steam Client Service running would allow the file deletion at any point, which appears to be the case for myself and others. But, since a version check can be triggered at any point, I have to assume that even launching SkyrimLauncher can trigger it since it uses the Steam API. In your case, I'm betting that you are safer than most due to not having a service constantly running that can trigger at any moment. Bottom line, I don't believe that you are completely safe, just safer than most. All speculation at this point though, but hopefully I'll have my answer at least in terms of the Service within the next couple weeks.

I'm now auditing my TESV.exe for both Successes and Failures for all access attempts. I went ahead and removed the file permissions (but leaving Automatic Updates disabled), so now I'll know exactly what deletes it. Just have to wait. :(

I really dislike the current WYSIWYG editor with a passion. :yucky: Yeah, thats what i assumed, with UAC off and on an admin account, SkyrimLauncher will run in admin mode. But if thats my case, then I would expect to have TESV.exe and co deleted. But skyrimlauncher does not delete anything, and i run it often to generate default inis. Taking what sb4n wrote into account, maybe its the steam client service? But i also run that. I do not allow cloud syncing though. Furthermore, i have my ownership of the skyrim directory as full administrator. Thanks for your permissions list. When you run a program as yourself, it will still run under your credentials. Being a member of the Administrators group just affords you extra permissions for actions that normal users would not have. With UAC on, you are prompted for those actions, with UAC off, you aren't. But, concerning the file and directory permissions I am currently using, that won't matter, because the user permissions are a total match, and Deny rules always (in this case) win. For me, that leaves the question of whether or not the service is a cause of the deletion. If it is, that means that it does not obey the Automatic Updates setting (and is also going to complicate things). I have no choice now but to not launch Skyrim or CK and wait it out as long as possible in order to determine if this is the case. I figure if the files still exist after two weeks, then the current permissions I'm testing with should be sufficient. For anyone else reading this, I could really use a permission list from your Skyrim folder if Steam is installed under C:\Program Files.

That surprises me. Can't say I agree with MS's choice to do that, unless it has something to do with the Preview. That entry should be Authenticated Users.

Very interesting. Did Win8 add Everyone Full Control to C:\games, or did you? That's not something I would ever want.

I'm going to stress this again just in case. If you opened the Services window before starting Steam, you MUST refresh the window. It does not update itself when the status of a service changes. If you have done that, then I'm baffled. Completely opposite behavior for me. Anything I do in Steam causes that service to start, including if I restart in Offline Mode. From what I've read online, it is supposed to be running if Steam is running, which the first thing that comes to mind is that something is blocking it. Out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know what permissions are set on your Steam.dll file (located in your Steam root folder). I just disabled UAC and restarted and the service is not starting for me. So that is why yours isn't since Steam will be able to do what it needs to without going through the elevation process. That's one of the main reasons why the service exists so that it can update the registry and anything else necessary to help keep it's ability to perform automatic updates.

A couple of hours later, I now understand why TESV.exe is disappearing, and it's not the Steam Client regardless of what the file permissions are. This is provable by disabling Automatic Updates and validating your game cache. When complete, it will tell you how many files did not validate, but it will not download/delete anything since Automatic Updates are forced off. When enabling Automatic Updates, the files are downloaded. I have also performed this test with the Steam Client Service disabled. This leaves two possible candidates for causing the deletion, being SkyrimLauncher.exe or Steam Client Service. At this point I believe either can cause the occurrence. A data point for my case is that my TESV.exe existed before I installed the CK and I did not launch SkyrimLauncher.exe at any point both hours before installing CK, as well as after (until I tried today and was dumbfounded that it was gone). Now to the problem. Windows file permissions can be a beast as they can be very complicated, and this problem shows one example of unexpected behavior. Normally, Deny entries supersede any other rule, except for certain cases. One such case is when an inherited Allow permission conflicts with the deny rule. In this scenario, the inherited Allow permission from the closest parent overrules the Deny. In order to fix this, all I had to do was set a Deny Delete Sub Folders and Files on the Skyrim folder. For this test, I Enabled Automatic Updates then manually set the permissions on TESV.exe, Update.esm, and Update.bsa to match what I set in SU. I then performed a Validate game cache at which point it told me that 3 files failed to validate and would be downloaded...but they weren't. However, this is where it can get tricky based on what permissions are set on the Skyrim folder. The reason is that by setting Deny Sub Folders and Files on the folder for my user, that would normally prevent me from deleting anything inside. This would cause problems for mod installers. But in my case it doesn't affect me in that regard, because I also have a permission for Allow Full Control for Users. When attempting to delete a file inside Skyrim, the Deny Delete rule for my user conflicts with the Allow Full Control for Users, and I'm able to proceed. Testing this out with Wyre Bash. But by having a Deny Delete/Deny Create Files/Write Data rule on the individual files, it partially matches the Deny Delete that is inherited from the parent folder (Skyrim) and the attempt is denied. The above was performed via Steam Client running as me, but there may still be a problem with the service running as SYSTEM. I just don't know at this point. The only way to be for sure would be to update permissions at least for the user and wait it out. That leaves me at a point where I could use some specific information form folks regardless if your TESV.exe is still safe and sound, or if it was deleted. Windows OS VersionSkyrim installation pathIs the Skyrim folder a Junction?Security entries for your Skyrim root folder. Below is an example of the default permissions on mine (The entries I need are located by Right clicking Skyrim and selecting Properties. Click on the Security tab, then the Advanced button towards the bottom). : TYPE - NAME - PERMISSION - INHERITED FROM - APPLY TO Allow - Users - Full Control - E:\usr\games\Steam\ - This folder, subfolders, and files Allow - SYSTEM - Full Control - E:\usr\games\Steam\ - This folder, subfolders, and files Allow - Administrators - Full Control - E:\ - This folder, subfolders, and files Allow - Authenticated Users - Modify - E:\ - This folder, subfolders, and files Allow - Users - Special - E:\ - Subfolders and files only (For Special, click on the rule then the Change Permissions button. click on the rule again then the Edit button) -> Traverse folder - Allow -> List folder - Allow -> Read attributes - Allow -> Read extended attributes - Allow -> Read permissions - Allow

Did some further testing. Setting Steam Client Service to Disabled causes Steam to throw an error and it wants to install the service. Renaming Steam.dll causes Steam to update itself to get it back. Even after stopping the service, any action I take causes it start (launching any game or tool, or verifying game cache). I even set Steam to Offline Mode, and the service still starts. It's hard to believe that yours isn't running at all.

I believe that is the reason why you are still safe. My service was running and still is. I have also just verified on my system that running any game, including launching the CK, or installing a game, causes that service to start. Can you please check the Startup Type for the Steam Client Service on your machine and let me know what it's set to. Mine is set to Manual. If yours is set to Manual, can you keep the Services window open, then launch the CK. Immediately switch back to the Services window and keep refreshing (F5) the page view to see if it starts at all, and then maybe stops. My service also starts when I launch Steam, and stops when I exit Steam. If your service is not starting, then it won't be able to add registry entries under HKLM. Remembering a ways back, you reported that certain registry entries didn't exist, and I believe this may be part of the cause and that your service is likely Disabled. Only thing that makes sense to me.

No, I do not have deny set for any user, including my account What version of SU are you running?

While digging around, I just stumbled across something. Steam installs a service called "Steam Client Service" that runs as the System account which pretty much has full control everywhere Administrator does. This makes sense due to the Steam Client app running under your credentials, so if you install a game, it somehow needs elevated permissions to update registry entries under HKLM. That service is how it would achieve that. I know that SkyrimLauncher communicates with Steam, and it may be utilizing that service. But whatever is happening at this point, I have to assume that it's that service that is somehow being called/utilized and it is the culprit that is deleting the files. Everything else runs as your user and there is no way for a (non administrator privileged) program running with your credentials to delete the files with the file permissions I set. I also just found out that my TESV.exe is gone now as well. It was there before I installed the CreationKit, so it occurred sometime after that installation. I'm convinced something is giving that Steam Client Service a nudge and causing the deletion. Reports on the missing files vary from right after patch launch to a week later, so it is also semi-random.

Then I'm at a complete loss. Both Steam and the launcher run with your credentials. How it is disappearing in this case is baffling. Doing some additional testing.

I'm going to look into that for next release. I just installed it last night so I can determine what files were installed, and so far I have the following list: CreationKit.exessce5432.dllflowchartx32.dllArchive.exeSkyrimEditor.inilex/Papyrus Compiler/Data/DialogueViews/Data/Interface/ (directory timestamp updated but no files placed inside)Data/LSData/Data/shadersfx/Data/Sound/Data/Strings/ (this is included in file lockdowns for Skyrim)