wolverine2710

Recently in the Unofficial Skyrim Patch Nexus there was a 'discussion' between Tannin and Arthmoor. For my personal opinion see spoiler. For details see around date/time "posted @ 5:42, 27 Oct 2013". It looks as if something good can come from this, as in possibly a new feature in MO.

I always appreciate ppl who try to make things better (for MO). I really don't know if there is such thing as 'spoiler tags' in the wiki. Doubleyou probably knows this. Even if its exists it will be a challenge to write the texts so that this 'fits'. Though certainly certainly something to consider (for the future). I would be glad if the wiki is nicely filled to start with. If you look at the original MO wiki and the one which is live now DoubleYou certainly has put a lot of work and love into this.

@humbye. I REALLY like your idea but there practical issues. Double you's MO sandbox which as of the 27th (very nice day btw) has been moved to the live MO wiki needs to be filled in first. After that, which will take at least multiple weeks if not more, we can look into it. I currently don't know how to setup the wiki in such a way that it would contain both the 'bullet point' answers and the 'myriad details' answers. Restructuring the wiki later on is not a problem as long as its says 'WIP, warning volatile'. Having a wiki which is concise, to the point, understandable for the average users and still has all the nitty gritty details for the power users and which can be used as a reference would be great. I have to admit that.

Originally Nexus user Qerm posted this in the Nexus MO forum. So that this discussion will not get buried on the nexus forums I created the question here and will respond to it here. I've looked into it and can confirm what you wrote. I've looked at the mod - Grandmaster - True Unarmed and Unarmored Combat. It has no installer and MO should be able to handle it with the 'manual installer' plugin. Its slightly odd packaged as it has a data directory in it but normally MO can handle them just fine. Somehow this specific one can't be handled atm. Solution: Please create a ticket for it in the issue tracker. That way Tannin can fix it. Possibly there are more mods which are oddly packaged (in the same way) so others can profit as well. Workaround: Repackage the mod. Unzip the zipfile so you have a GrandMaster_base-13281-9-07 directory (calling it dirX). Move the meshes, Script directories from the data directory to the root of dirX, do the same for file GrandMaster.esp file. Now delete the data dir and zip dirX again with the same name. If using 7zip make sure the zipfile only has the two dirs and the esp. Now install the mod. I've done this and it installs. I'm trying to be more concise, and leaving out details one might not be interested in. Should you or anyone else need more info, just ask.

Before this goes off topic (caused by me), please send me a PM if you need some assistance. I think I can provide you with a good/small testcase which covers most problems. My results so far: It goes wrong the moment files have been 'overwritten' in NMM. If you want to see how I tested, please have a look at the mentioned issue in the issue tracker.

I know the concept of the overwrite directory and the virtual filing system can be a bit daunting (at first). And YES we need to get better documentation about it. The whole purpose of MO is that you can have a virgin /data directory because it is virtualized (though Skyrim thinks its working with the regular filing system). Please do NOT put anything in the real /data/directory. Not sure what you mean with "Textures folder into my Automatic Variants folder." I recommend creating a few mods. A mod in MO is nothing more then a directory in the /mods directory with a certain valid data structure. Its best to close MO first. 1) Create a "TES5Edit backups" mod an move the contents of the overwrite/TES5Edit Backups directory to it. Do NOT enable this mod. 2) Create a "Automatic Variants Textures" mod and move the directory Textures in overwrite to it. This mod is global for all profiles and needs to enabled. If you add more AV packages, and the textures end up in the overwrite directory move the new textures to it. 3) The skyproc patcher directories (after your first run) contain mostly or only debugging text files. Its entirely possible that they stay there when move them back to the corresponding mod. See also this tread, post #2. I have to admit I expected the esp files generated by for example the Automatic Variants patcher to end up in the overwrite dircectory as well. Perhaps this behavior is changed or did you already move it? Yes that is correct. Note: Having an empty overwrite directory at ALL times is needed when you use or plan to use multiple profiles. If you are not you could leave all the files in the 'overwrite' directory. Though Tannin advices against it and it NOT good practise but it won't hurt MO. At least this worked for me. I know I have NOT been 100% complete (how to handle multiple profiles) but I hope this gives a good starting point. Also please reread the post in the MO Nexus forum with date/time 13:46, 16 Sep 2013. Perhaps it makes more sense now. If anyone wants to fill in my gap(s) please feel free to do so.

ModOrganizer, NMM, Wrye Bash and I believe all other mod managers can only install mods in the /data directory NOT the directory. SKSE, DragonScript, ENB have to be installed in the directory. You CAN however install the scripts parts of the SKSE with MO, works great. If you REALLY want to have a virgin directory. As in you want to see what is 'virgin' skyrim and what you have added later to the root directory (ie ENB, SKSE, DragonScript files) you can use a program called Link Shell Extension. It can create hardlinks/symbolic links. Think of it as windows shortcuts at the filing system level. You install your ENB, SKSE, DragonScript in a directory somewhere and then create hardlinks/symlinks for it in the directory. In windows explorer (and other file managers) these links have a Custom Overlay Icon so you can see what are virgin skyrim files and what are links.

The logfile is created when the mod which uses SKSE is run. The mod normally puts the logs in the real /data/skse/plugin directory with name CharacterMakingExtender.log. Because it was not there to begin with MO puts it in the 'overwrite' directory. The same happens with a SKSE based mod called Elys MemInfo which log file also end up up in the 'overwrite' directory. The concept of the overwrite directory and the virtual filing system system (VFS) concept can be a bit daunting at first. I saw that in your original thread you moved the files to the real /data directory and asked if that was OK. Please do NOT do that. The whole purpose of MO is to have and keep a virgin /data directory. Please do the following. Select your mod (modX)in the left pane, right click and select 'open in explorer'. If its not already there please create the following directory structure 'skse/plugin'. Now move the logfile to here. You can use MO's drag&drop or what I find simpler is go to your /overwrite directory and move the file to your newly created directory. Now two things can happen. 1) When you run Skyrim and the mod is run and the logfile is updated it will STAY in the /mods/modX/skse/plugins directory and does NOT get moved again to the overwrite directory. This happens with Elys Meminfo. 2) When your run Skyrim and the mod is run and the logfile is updated it will be created AGAIN in the overwrite directory. Behavior (1) or (2) depends on how the mod handles the logfile and if MO can guess/determine what to do with the file. For more details see the explanation by Uhuru in the thread "Overwrite Folder" Note to self: Please DO create [info] threads and later entries in the wiki for 'VFS', 'overwrite' etc. It will save you lots of time in the long run and preserve your sanity. Yes, master....

Originally Nightmarecast posted this in the Nexus MO forum. So that this discussion will not get buried on the nexus forums I created the question here and will respond to it here. I have to admit I didn't know about that feature. If you can reproduce the issue by locking the loadorder again and it hangs again then please create a ticket for it in the issue tracker . Can somebody please explain under which circumstances you want/need to lock the loadorder of mods? What are the advantages and/or disadvantages of this? Also have more users experienced this issue?

I'm going to be concise this time and NOT going into details and being 100% complete. Basically when a program is started by MO which adds/changes files those files end up up in the overwrite directory. In Tannins vision the overwrite directory should always be empty (needed if you want to use multiple profiles). Please read the thread "By visby. Feature request: overwrite folder for each profile". It contains two important links The technical details of the overwrite directory.A date/time on the Nexus MO forum where strategies for handling the overwrite directory are discussed.If after reading that information you have additional questions feel free to ask them. note: (1) and (2) need and will finds its way in a condensed version to the MO wiki in the future. Iirc BOSS does not put files in the overwrite directory. Signing off, my bed awaits.

@Uhuru. Indeed a very good post. Your diplomatic and writers gen is much more developed then mine. The real challenge of the the wiki and/or specialized MO help is to gather for both the "just want it to work" and "show me the real details" users. That's gonna be hard. On the one hand it must be concise enough that users actually read it and on the other it must contain enough information to be useful and complete. I think the videos by Deathneko11 and Bridger are really useful here. When I try to explain something its hard for me to leave out details because I think that information is needed. But is it? Do users really care about that kind of stuff I wonder? I really would like to have an advanced section in the wiki where I can just point users to for more information when when I try to explain things in a concise (not even close to being complete way). I've explained a lot of things over and over again and its gets tedious. However good technical information which is understandable is also hard to create. Now that I've retested the NMM importer for the third time I have time till Tannin creates another MO RC before I have/want to retest that importer again. I miss the screams of the importer when I put it on the rack and stretch it even a bit further till the importer joints snap. Probably starting tuesday/wednesday I can start editing the sandbox version of the wiki again. BUT I should not forget to play Skyrim once in while ;-) It so easy to get burned out when spending to much time with this MO thing.... I'm a perfectionist and sometimes I have to apply the brakes for my own good.....

Finished with the test report. Just in case somebody is interested, it is Bug report #435. It contains a zipfile with all the nitty gritty and a test report text file which you can also find here.

Thanks guys for clearing this up.

I'm curious why installed RAM is not requested.

For those who want to try the NMM importer for the usage I suggested here is some information. I've just retested the NMM importer for the third time, now with RC8. First impression: The NMM importer as in the last test has problems with files which are overwritten (when installed by NMM) and they are not copied (at least not all) when imported into MO. Not sure if that matters for xhud/MCM mods for Fallout 3 (FO3) and FallOut New Vegas (FONV). At this point I've only roughly checked a few things, amongst which are 'overwritten files'. A full interpretation of the import and a test report will likely take a day.

You can add whatever information you need in your original post. No need for quotes.

Like Uhuru said its absolutely not useless. It apparently has to do with MO's internal viewer if I've interpreted everything correctly. Not every user with a russian Skyrim might know how to work a round it. Perhaps an enhancement request in the issue tracker might be in order here.

Great post. Seems to be pretty much on the spot. I have a few comments and some additional information. If you have not selected a mod you want to change the priority for you have to single click it to select it. After that indeed a single click in the priority field allows you to change the priority.An alternative way to change the priority for a mod is to select its priority field and then press F2. Note this works for every field except for the 'installation' field.Changing the priority for a mod is also possible by drag&drop. Select a mod and drag&drop it to the correct position. This also works when you have selected multiple mods using the standard windows ctrl and shift multi select feature.Note: I wanted to add a comment about the refresh button but I believe you had just edited your original post. In the example Mod A now has a higher priority then Mod B. What if there are a few textures in Mod B you prefer over the textures in Mod A. Two solutions: Remove some textures in Mod A so that those in Mod B are now used.Hide some textures in Mod A so that those in Mod B are now used.(1) means the textures are deleted from the real filing system.(2) means the textures are only removed in the virtual filing sytem. When starting Skyrim in both case the effect is the same. Deleting or Hiding a file is done by double clicking a mod or alternatively selecting it, right click and then select 'Information'. Now go to the FileTree tab, select the textures or whatever other asset (ie mesh), right click and either select 'delete' or 'hide'. If you hide a file its gets an extra extension of ".mohidden". Atm its not possible with the MO UI to find those back. A simple work around exists. Start windows explorer and go to the /mods directory and search for a files with a .mohidden extension. If you want to unhide a file just remove the extension. An enhancement request exists for it, its #346. MO has the unique ability to change the load order of BSA files. For details see this thread. An alternative for "Start up your game and check that the correct texture file got loaded." is to use Free Commander which shows the virtual filing system which is also used by Skyrim. For details see this thread. Should I have forgotten something or made a mistake feel free to mention it.

@humbye. Great post. Going to reread it again. Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us and of course for the effort. I know how time consuming those posts can be.. Somehow I think that in one form or another this will end up in the MO wiki. I have a few comments about the post and some additional information which I will post in the created [info] thread.

As I was searching stuff both GSDFan and Tannin posted here, you are fast guys. Threw away always everything (you were quite thorough) and the following snippet remains. It looks/seems the version Tannin is referring to is Version 1.0.0rc1. The changelog mentions the following: "- fake esms are now treated as masters (as they should)"

@humbye. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the rest of the MO community. This is very much appreciated. If you still have problems getting the tutorials to work, please create a ticket in the issue tracker for it. A few users before you had the same problem. Perhaps Tannin can use the additional information to fix your/the tutorial problem.

I saw in the issue tracker for Feature request #447 that Tannin responded to this and closed the ticket. His response: If this thread gets no responses in the next days I will move it to the ' Knowledge Base - SOLVED THREADS' section.

You used NMM before if I have interpreted your post correctl. Did this issue occur also with NMM or does it only occur after you have switched to MO. If so then MO seems to have something to do with it. In that cae please create a ticket for it in the issue tracker. You have to be log in before you can add a 'bug report'. Just googled a bit but can't find really related stuff. This link might or might not be useful.

Do you mean that no entries are shown when you click the windows 'start' button (bottom left corner)? Or do you mean no shortcut icons are put on the desktop so you can start MO from there? I've just downloaded the RC8 installer version and installed it (for this test) and indeed no shortcut for MO is placed on the Desktop. I also don't have a start menu entry. Hence I can confirm your findings. I do have a shortcut for my 1.5 year old MO version. Can't remember if it was put there by the installer or by myself. I always install MO manually by unzipping. I also start MO with windows explorer. Perhaps Tannin can tell us if the observed behavior is intended or not?

This question has also been posted in the Nexus MO foum. I've asked users there to contribute there comments here. I've also copied the so far only response by Nexus user rickerhk here. To quote him.