KEYWORD conflicts problem solving

[Guba]

First of all, hello to the community. My name is Sergio (aka Guba), 46, Italian.

I have recently decided to return to play skyrim and I have found that it is alive and vital as always, and that the community of players-modders has grown up strong with new fantastic mods and new versions of great glories as well.
I decided to "level-up" also my modding practice, starting to study and use some tools more in depth, like tesvedit, to deal with some very fascinating things like personal patches to cover more precisely some problems that a normal merged patch does not.

Well, the tool is fantastic, but there are obviously some problems that require a greater experience than mine.

So this is why I'm here to ask. If this is not the right place to ask please don't flame me, ok ?
I looked for the keyword "keyword conflict" into the forum search, but I have got no result.
I'd like to know if there is a topic already covered in one of the forums somewhere, if someone has covered this topic indirectly or this is a "forget because negligible" problem.
I think it is not a negligible problem also because the color code used for this occurrence is scary ( :-) ) a deep violet on purple background!
Is there some expert who has covered this topic in depth ? Which is the best strategy to resolve this issue ?
I tried to copy the keyword set that I think is the right one into my patch but nothing, it seems that unless I modify the STEP_Extended_Patch.esp  file taking away the conflicting keywords, there is no way to get rid of the problem.
I'm using the Extended patch because I installed all the mods of the guide. I hope I did well.
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Kesta]

Can you give an example of such conflicts ?

 

If the font is purple, it just mean that the record in this plugin is a master, which is overriden by another plugin. For instance, every records from Skyrim.esm which is overriden have a purple font. Usually, there is no issues with purple font, since it's absolutely normal that a plugin edit some of its master records. Though it's worth a look sometimes, just to make sure it's not a wild edit.

 

The background color is related to the whole load order, i.e. the record/field have the same background color in every plugins it is edited :

If it's white, there is no conflict (only one instance of this record in the whole load order),

If it's green there is no conflicts (usually means ITM at the record level. In the View panel, fields with green background means there is no conflicts, they're the fields hidden if you select "hide non-conflicting rows).

If it's Yellow, then there is override, but without conflicts (it just means that a plugin edit some of its master fields, but as I said previously, it's normal for a plugin to do so in order to make changes tot he game).

If it's red, then there is conflict. You either need to make a choice between the two, or create a patch.

If it's fushia... well, I've never seen any purple, and it's not listed in every documentation, but it's supposed to mean "critical conflict". What's a critical conflict ? No idea...

 

 

My guess is just that you have a red background with a purple font, which make the red background look kinda like purple. If you're looking at the STEP load order, keywords in WAF are displayed as such.

 

Edit : Nevermind, Zilav answered here https://forum.step-project.com/topic/1327-tes5edit-by-elminsterau/?p=134041

Edited July 19, 2015 by Kesta

[Guba]

Hello Citizen, thanks for your reply.

Well, there is a problem, that is that the background IS fuchsia (or fushia) as you can see from the picture that you can see here.

Well, it is too unfortunate that reply is stroked and it seems that nobody knows this problem.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the colors ?

 

 

[Pretendeavor]

I'm often wondering about this too when manually trying to patch things. I mostly ignore it.. (out of ignorance) I noticed the creator of WAF is relatively active on these forums, perhaps they can chime in here.

[Kesta]

No, as Zilav explained it's fushia because it's an injected record. I just edited to stroke the lines in my post because it was related to the part "I've never seen one for myself", but I'm the one who've been misinterpreting the fushia background color as being red ^^

 

If you look at the form ID of one of those records, you'll notice that it begin with "01" instead of "17" (as it should, since 17 is the index of WAF in your load order).

 

This technique, used with keywords, allow differents mods to check for the same keywords without having a direct dependancy. The record is allowed to use a formID which is "outside" the range of numbers it's supposed to be in.

Mator recently gave some nice explainations on this here : https://forum.step-project.com/topic/8213-looking-for-documentation-behind-the-concepts-of-xedit/?p=129949

 

 

The reason it's marked in fushia in xEdit is that the records with the specific formID stored in WAF is different than the one in the STEP Extended Patch. In this case, it's fine, because even if the two records are differents, they serve the same purpose.

 

However, an other mod reliying on injected records could have injected a totally different record with this formID (since formID of injected records arent bound to start with the mod index), with a totally different purpose (maybe even not a keyword !), which would have be a major issue. So if two injected records have the same formID but aren't exactly alike, they're highlighted in fushia in xEdit.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Kesta

[kryptopyr]

You can safely ignore this conflict, or you can drag the EDID record from Complete Crafting Overhaul to the STEP Patch in order to make it consistent with the other files.  There won't be any effect on your game either way.

[Guba]

Kesta, thanks for your reply. Out of topic I'm studying your patches. Indeed a job!
Kryptopyr, you're one of my idols. Being you within my hands reach, let me make you my compliments for your mods. they are GREAT!
Well, folks, it seems that I'm gonna patching the STEP patch. Very interesting indeed.
I'll let you know what will happen...
Thrilled.

:woot:

[Guba]

Folks, a very strange (and unseen) thing is happening here.

Every time I press the SNEAK function, Lydia becomes invisible in a very glorious effect, and remains invisible until I press SNEAK again.

Do you know any mod which introduces this kind of effect ?

[GrantSP]

Folks, a very strange (and unseen) thing is happening here.

Every time I press the SNEAK function, Lydia becomes invisible in a very glorious effect, and remains invisible until I press SNEAK again.

Do you know any mod which introduces this kind of effect ?

No I don't but you may want to ask that in a topic all its own as it will likely become lost here in this very specific topic on KEYWORDS.

[Kesta]

Folks, a very strange (and unseen) thing is happening here.

Every time I press the SNEAK function, Lydia becomes invisible in a very glorious effect, and remains invisible until I press SNEAK again.

Do you know any mod which introduces this kind of effect ?

What GrantSP said + EFF automatically cast invisibility on followers when you're sneaking IIRC. The feature is toggleable from the MCM.

[Guba]

What GrantSP said + EFF automatically cast invisibility on followers when you're sneaking IIRC. The feature is toggleable from the MCM.

What is GrantSP ? IIRC ? Sorry, but I'm getting lost with all these acronyms.

So you think that it is not a problem due to my keyword choice, to patch "STEP Extended patch" ?

[Guba]

OK FOlks, after some little headscratch I realized that:

GrantSP is a guy; + EEF means Enhanced Follower Framework (that I knew) but the sign "+" remains a mistery; IIRC dunno...

So I went to see into MCM menu of EFF and I have found that a stealth sneaking flag was checked.

The problem went away (obviously).
As far as I can see there's no another problem and the game is flowing great.

[Pretendeavor]

"+" is just 'plus' :P And hover over IIRC with your mouse, it will show what it stands for ;)

[Guba]

"+" is just 'plus' :P And hover over IIRC with your mouse, it will show what it stands for ;)

May I say that sometimes I feel a little dumb ?

::D: