This program doesn't like me (overwritten files?)

[acindron]

Hey everyone.

So I'm starting to get the gist of using MO. I deleted everything from NMM and everything from MO and started to download everything again because I want to start a new game. I used the STEP guidelines for a lot of the mods, I used some other mods beyond STEP and everything seemed to feel alright until I started it up. The game was all funky in the carriage on my way to Helgen. So I decided I'd turn off all of my mods by going to the <Checked> portion in MO, right clicked and selected "Disable All Visible". The game was still glitched and then after an hour of researching, I figured out I installed FNIS incorrectly in MO. I didn't set the Data directory correctly so I chose to do it manually and fixed it. I'm kind of curious what other ones I screwed up (mods that I may have just installed without using the manual feature and having the incorrect data directory.) Is there any way to check if there are mods that weren't "good to go"?

Anyway, so I enabled all the mods again and suddenly the "Potential Problems" button lit up. It appeared some of my mods were out of order now so I just used the "fix" button. I think everything was fine for a while until I realized it lit up again and said:

"Files in the Overwrite mod are are usually files created by an external tool (i.e. Wrye Bash, Automatic Variants, ...).

It is advisable you empty the Overwrite directory by moving those files to an existing mod. You can do this by double-clicking the Overwrite mod and use drag&drop to move the files to a mod.
Alternatively, right-click on Overwrite and create a new regular mod from the files there." etc. etc.

Then I realized under <Managed by MO>, there are a ton of my mods apparently overwritten? I am trying hard to understand this. Was all that work that I did with installing the STEP mods one by one (in order) all in vain because I unchecked and re-checked all the mods I currently have? The whole overwritten error came out of nowhere though. And also, there's a section on the left called, <Conflicted> and a bunch of my mods are listed in there as well. I'm watching the tutorial videos on YouTube and I can't figure out how to fix this problem. Do I have to reinstall all of these one by one?

Sorry if I sound like a dope, I was never good with modding, even using NMM. I just want to get my game to work well using most of the STEP guidelines/mod suggestions.

Can any of you MO experts help me out here?

Thanks!

 

[GrantSP]

hmm... I think you still are misunderstanding the interface. Not to worry, that will come.

 

1) MO doesn't know which texture is better, all it 'knows' is which texture will be used. If you install a couple of mods that change the same things it is up to you to decide which mod gets the gig!

 

2) Reordering can be done by left-clicking on the name, or any part of the highlighted mod, and dragging it to a new location. You will see a black line and black triangular cursor to the left showing where the mod will be placed. Or by slow left-clicking twice next to the priority number and then typing the new value.

 

3) Endorsing those mods has no bearing on MO showing the conflict status. The 'heart' icon simply shares the 'Flags' column with the 'lightning' icons. If there is no 'conflict' shown that simply means that mod doesn't change existing items, hence no conflict. Typically mods that introduce new stuff will be free of those flags.

 

4) Any mod you install from outside Nexus wont be able to have the endorse status changed, that is purely a Nexus arrangement and has no bearing on how the mods run or are handled by MO.

 

If you haven't already, familiarise yourself with the UI by reading the MO wiki put together by the good folk here in the S.T.E.P. forum.

[hishutup]

Okay generally the whole "Potential Problems" thing isn't useful, you almost never even need to look at it.

If you need to worry about it then you'll know.

 

The whole there are files in the overwrite folder is like saying you have files in your temp folder.

The files are fine but it shouldn't be where you keep your files.

--I leave anything that is generated in the Overwrite folder along with some other random files.

 

Most overwrites are fine.

I kind of dislike the term conflicted because people always assume that their game is going to implode if they don't fix it.

 

Think of it like there is a texture in a bsa and you have another mod that has a replacer for the texture that is better than the one in the bsa.

At this point you can just install the texture and be fine because the loose texture will overwrite the one in the bsa. Mo will put it as if there is a conflict but its more like you are allowing a better file to overwrite the other even thought that is not the case because the texture in the bsa is just redirected to the loose version.

 

If you have two textures from first to last then the last texture will be the one that you see in the game but is still marked as conflicted but is completely intentional.

 

Does this help a little?

If I am incorrect anywhere then someone will come along and correct it, maybe...

 

 

 

If you are following STEP then you pretty much ignore all of those 'issues'

[acindron]

First of all, thank you for helping and the quick response.Okay, a lot of what you're saying is helping me understand the program a little more. For instance, I just learned today that MO doesn't put files in your skyrim directory by watching some videos. I was really struggling with that last night trying to use both NMM and MO together. 

So- when you were talking having a bsa texture and then installing another texture that would have the same name file, why would the latest installation be the one that's used? In NMM, the old texture would just be overwritten, right? So how is MO keeping two files with the same name and picking a higher priority over one? Unless that's not what you're saying. Are you saying that one of the files is overwritten? I keep thinking in terms of how NMM was used.Also, where do you see your overwritten folder? If I go to <Checked>, I scroll down, I just see the word "Overwrite" in red and assume all the files below it are messed up.I really need to get some sleep now because I'm so confused. Hopefully I'll be sharp again in the morning and figure this all out.

[hishutup]

What I am say is complicated because MO does interesting stuff.

what is a conflict:

Its anytime a file is being override by another. This also includes when a file in a bsa is being overwritten by another bsa file or another loose file.

Mo CAN read whats inside the bsa.

MO also can extract them but you don't really need to worry about that.

 

MO works differently because of the whole virtual files system thing.

So, Mo loads up all the files that would normally be the overwriting files.

 

here is a guide I found... 

 

Also, where do you see your overwritten folder? If I go to <Checked>, I scroll down, I just see the word "Overwrite" in red and assume all the files below it are messed up.

yes, that is where that folder is always going to resides, that being, at the end of the Install List.

[GrantSP]

...

Okay, a lot of what you're saying is helping me understand the program a little more. For instance, I just learned today that MO doesn't put files in your skyrim directory by watching some videos. I was really struggling with that last night trying to use both NMM and MO together...

If I may offer a word of advice, pick either NMM or MO and use just that one. Using them both together WILL cause you a lot of pain.

As you correctly figured out MO doesn't install anything into the Data directory so there is NO CHANCE of irreversibly stuffing something up. This means though that anything you do in MO will now be at odds with the installed mods from NMM. To get the greatest benefit MO should have a clear vanilla Data directory.

 

Now as to conflicts. Like @hishutup said, they aren't really 'conflicts', more like decisions that need to be made. Let's say you have ModA installed that has an esp, some textures, meshes and maybe a MCM menu. Then you install ModB and MO says you have a conflict. ModB only has some textures that are similar, but better than those in ModA. Moving ModB to a greater priority in the left-hand pane means ModA will load and function perfectly but it will use the better textures from ModB. No conflict, just a decision about assets. Of course if ModB also had an esp then you would have to decide which one to use in the right-hand pane. If they both do the same thing it's a case of either/or, not ordering them. Deselect the one you don't want.

 

...

So- when you were talking having a bsa texture and then installing another texture that would have the same name file, why would the latest installation be the one that's used? In NMM, the old texture would just be overwritten, right? So how is MO keeping two files with the same name and picking a higher priority over one? Unless that's not what you're saying. Are you saying that one of the files is overwritten? I keep thinking in terms of how NMM was used...

Again, the terms here used don't have the same import as they do in NMM. 'Installing' in MO is just a matter of unpacking the mod to be ready for use. No files are overwritten anywhere. This is where the beauty of MO comes to the fore. The left-hand pane contains all these 'Installed' mods and they can be ordered to load their assets (textures, meshes, sounds, etc.) by simply dragging them around. Lower in the window, or by assigning them a greater priority, means the assets they contain will be used. If you later find that the game doesn't quite look right, just reorder them. Remember 'no files have been lost, overwritten, destroyed or otherwise been damaged'. In NMM you would have to un-install the mod, restore the previous mod, check the game, cry when it didn't work, re-install Skyrim, re-install the mod(s) and try again.

 

Additionally, if you enabled MO to handle bsas then you can reorder these also to even get around the Skyrim manner of using 'loose files' over bsas. Again it is all just a case of assigning the higher priority in the left-hand pane.

Edited October 18, 2014 by GrantSP

[acindron]

If I may offer a word of advice, pick either NMM or MO and use just that one. Using them both together WILL cause you a lot of pain.

As you correctly figured out MO doesn't install anything into the Data directory so there is NO CHANCE of irreversibly stuffing something up. This means though that anything you do in MO will now be at odds with the installed mods from NMM. To get the greatest benefit MO should have a clear vanilla Data directory.

 

Now as to conflicts. Like @hishutup said, they aren't really 'conflicts', more like decisions that need to be made. Let's say you have ModA installed that has an esp, some textures, meshes and maybe a MCM menu. Then you install ModB and MO says you have a conflict. ModB only has some textures that are similar, but better than those in ModA. Moving ModB to a greater priority in the left-hand pane means ModA will load and function perfectly but it will use the better textures from ModB. No conflict, just a decision about assets. Of course if ModB also had an esp then you would have to decide which one to use in the right-hand pane. If they both do the same thing it's a case of either/or, not ordering them. Deselect the one you don't want.

 

Again, the terms here used don't have the same import as they do in NMM. 'Installing' in MO is just a matter of unpacking the mod to be ready for use. No files are overwritten anywhere. This is where the beauty of MO comes to the fore. The left-hand pane contains all these 'Installed' mods and they can be ordered to load their assets (textures, meshes, sounds, etc.) by simply dragging them around. Lower in the window, or by assigning them a greater priority, means the assets they contain will be used. If you later find that the game doesn't quite look right, just reorder them. Remember 'no files have been lost, overwritten, destroyed or otherwise been damaged'. In NMM you would have to un-install the mod, restore the previous mod, check the game, cry when it didn't work, re-install Skyrim, re-install the mod(s) and try again.

 

Additionally, if you enabled MO to handle bsas then you can reorder these also to even get around the Skyrim manner of using 'loose files' over bsas. Again it is all just a case of assigning the higher priority in the left-hand pane.

Thank you! How do you re-order mods on the left hand side? I'm trying to drag them but it doesn't work.Edit: And how does MO know which texture is better? Edit (again) to discard my last edit: Watched more of GamerPoet's videos and understand priority numbers now. I can also drag and drop if I do it from the priority column. It seems I have to get all these textures sorted out somehow and will probably take me a while. Some of them I haven't endorsed yet so I can't see the lightning icon. So I'm going one by one to endorse everything. It's not letting me endorse from MO either. I have to go the Nexus page. And what about mods that were downloaded from a torrent? I know one of the texture mods STEP suggests is from a torrent file, I just can't remember which one. Some of them don't even have Nexus data, which is really weird. So I'm still at it. Could someone possibly send me a screenshot of their left panel if they are using STEP mods? It would help me (at least as a reference) to figure out priority.So I'm going to go through all the mods, make sure they're endorsed, figure out the Nexus IDs for the mods that don't have it. Another question, why are there red thunderbolts next to the unofficial patches? Should those have a higher priority number?Also, still having problems with some OTHER mods. (Should I open new threads for these issues?) It seems to me that Audio Overhaul and The Compendium aren't working well together. I know they conflict but I used the patch for Audio Overhaul when I installed Compendium. I'm not hearing reverb in game, and also not hearing some of the Compendium sounds that are supposed to be playing. I also saw a post here about Audio Overhaul not working for them but I don't think it was solved.I promise I'll mark this solved once I've figured out everything (And I will!). You guys have been really helpful so far though! Big thanks!

Edited October 18, 2014 by acindron

[IdiotDave]

Just order the mods in the left pane as they are ordered in the STEP guide. Some of your other mods may need to be interspersed in the STEP 'portion' (I have all my STEP core mods listed first, and all together). The only way to know if one mod should be interspersed is by knowing what it does, and if it will 'overwrite' part of a STEP mod that you don't want it to. For the most part, your other mods your 'OTHER' mods should come after STEP. The left pane in MO is the same as your install order in NMM. MO allows you to change your install order without needing to unusual any mods. It also allows you to have different install orders for different profiles.

One of the (many) nice parts of MO is you can also manage conflicts individually by double clicking on a mod in the left pane.

 

To answer a previous question on how MO can keep two files with the same name, that is part of the magic. Each mod in the left pane is actually a file folder in the mods folder under MO. Therefore MO can have 2 mods with different names, but contain files with the same name. MO will choose which files to use based on the order in the left pane.

The lightning icon tells you if the mod will overwrite(green +), be overwritten (red -), or is completely overwritten (grey). So what you see next to the unofficial patches is an indication that some of their files will be overwritten. This is normal, nothing to worry about.

[acindron]

Thank you all, I've got the hang of it now! :) My game is running smoothly! All mods are working as they should be.

[acindron]

Still, if a few of you could take a screenshot of your left hand panel, I would be much obliged! :)

[hypercleats]

This particular set up has been working well for me (my latest character is up to level 16 right now, and I have the Community Uncapper "PCLevelSkillExpMults" set to 0.333 for all skills, so that my level only increments 1/3 as fast as normal).
 
Screenshots of my MO left pane (items 0 - 340):
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acindron]

^ I thought I left a thank you message but it must not have posted. Thank you for the screens! Very helpful!