Tree LOD Scale Troubleshooting

[z929669]

Posting here, since I don't think this is a DynDOLOD 3 Alpha issue specifically.

Hoping to get some assistance troubleshooting an issue I have with certain tree LODs scaling incorrectly between LOD and full tree (LOD tree is scaled as expected, but full tree is much smaller). I made the LOD model myself according to standard procedure I've done thousands of times now, so it doesn't seem to be an issue in this regard.

Logs with full/LOD models

My question is rather basic: What  --if anything-- impacts LOD tree scale relative to the full tree scale as defined in the plugin? For example, this particular tree's NIF root node is scaled at 2.2, and the child BsTriShape is scaled at 0.8 (same as full model). The plugin reference scales this particular tree at 0.46. How do these two scale sources play together in determining the scale of the loaded tree, and why might that differ for the resulting scale of the LOD model if both are the same? Is scale then 0.46 * 2.2 * 0.8 = 0.8096? I've never seen this inconsistency between LOD and full when LOD is generated properly for the mod list and LO, so I suspect it's an issue with the plugin.

Here's the offending reference:

[sheson]

If a 3D tree LOD model does not match the size of the full model tree, then there is a problem with the 3D tree LOD model.

As explained before, while the game typically ignores translation, rotation, scale on the root node when placing references, LOD generation does not. Remove any translation, rotation and scale from the root of the 3D tree LOD model.

[z929669]

45 minutes ago, sheson said:

If a 3D tree LOD model does not match the size of the full model tree, then there is a problem with the 3D tree LOD model.

As explained before, while the game typically ignores translation, rotation, scale on the root node when placing references, LOD generation does not. Remove any translation, rotation and scale from the root of the 3D tree LOD model.

Thanks. I will test this with the affected trees.

[z929669]

8 hours ago, sheson said:

If a 3D tree LOD model does not match the size of the full model tree, then there is a problem with the 3D tree LOD model.

As explained before, while the game typically ignores translation, rotation, scale on the root node when placing references, LOD generation does not. Remove any translation, rotation and scale from the root of the 3D tree LOD model.

So after toying with this a bit more, I've confirmed that scale should be set to 1.0 on the root node. I assume translation and rotation should be set to zero on the root node?

But I'm also finding that if a crown is imported into 3ds Max, optimized, and exported, then the translation/rotation are set to zero and scale set to 1.0 for ALL nodes. Changing ANY of these (root node or BsTriShape nodes) to match the original crown values also results in incorrect LOD model. I assume that it's because all of the "bounding box" and other defining parameters are 'refactored' or 'normalized' at some point in the import/export/optimization process in the 3D app. Setting translation/rotation/scale on any node after such transformation to match that of the original actually must cause deviation from the original? It likely also depends on the importer/exporter. I don't think Blender has this issue, but that again may depend on the third-party importer/exporter.

I'm mentioning all this because never in the past in my experience has scale, rotation, or translation needed to be altered on ANY node in the LOD model. The LOD model always uses the values of the source, since it's a direct copy. Also, I likely never had a situation where the root node of the source was scale != 1.0.

So the lesson is: don't worry about rotation, translation, or scale in the LOD model UNLESS it's setting translation and rotation to zero or scale to 1.0 ON THE ROOT NODE ONLY?

[sheson]

The root node transformation is ignored by the game. It is not ignored by object LOD generation by CK and thus by LODGen.

For 3DSMax check "Ignore Root Node" when loading a NIF or make the appropriate changes to the NIF with NifSkope beforehand.

For 3DSMax uncheck "FlattenHirachy", "Collapse Transforms" and/or "Zero Transform" in order to keep transforms as they are if so desired when saving  a NIF.

 

[z929669]

5 hours ago, sheson said:

The root node transformation is ignored by the game. It is not ignored by object LOD generation by CK and thus by LODGen.

For 3DSMax check "Ignore Root Node" when loading a NIF or make the appropriate changes to the NIF with NifSkope beforehand.

For 3DSMax uncheck "FlattenHirachy", "Collapse Transforms" and/or "Zero Transform" in order to keep transforms as they are if so desired when saving  a NIF.

 

I re-imported/exported again using these settings and no alterations to the relevant NIF properties in NifSkope once finished. This seemed to resolve my scaling/transform issues:

I believe unchecking the two items indicated in the export dialog did the trick for me.

Could you share where you got the beta3 version? The nexus only has the beta2 and the download from this page doesn't work for me. Looks like beta3 really only fixes the Weld Vertices on the importer, so likely not that important to me, but IDK.

[sheson]

31 minutes ago, z929669 said:

I re-imported/exported again using these settings and no alterations to the relevant NIF properties in NifSkope once finished. This seemed to resolve my scaling/transform issues:

I believe unchecking the two items indicated in the export dialog did the trick for me.

Could you share where you got the beta3 version? The nexus only has the beta2 and the download from this page doesn't work for me. Looks like beta3 really only fixes the Weld Vertices on the importer, so likely not that important to me, but IDK.

I assume the download link on that page must have worked 5 or 6 years ago ...

https://mega.nz/file/sdYSzISS#whKMZ9nzvxXro8kwhUgWvcjYJDh8btr3hgOpUBDWr7k

[LordIceWolf]

Just have a quick question.

I just reran DynDOLOD recently and everything works great. I decided to try changing the Tree Lods Level 4 from Level0 to full just for fun. DynDOLOD ran without issue (just took longer and obviously the Output folder is much larger). However, once in game, the Pine Trees Lods Level 4 are almost twice the size of the trees. The Level0 are the correct size.

I know I manually increased the size the Pine Tree passthru_lod when I increased the size of my Pine Trees so I think this might be the cause. My question is, why is it making the lods larger when using the Full option and not the Level0?

[sheson]

11 hours ago, LordIceWolf said:

Just have a quick question.

I just reran DynDOLOD recently and everything works great. I decided to try changing the Tree Lods Level 4 from Level0 to full just for fun. DynDOLOD ran without issue (just took longer and obviously the Output folder is much larger). However, once in game, the Pine Trees Lods Level 4 are almost twice the size of the trees. The Level0 are the correct size.

I know I manually increased the size the Pine Tree passthru_lod when I increased the size of my Pine Trees so I think this might be the cause. My question is, why is it making the lods larger when using the Full option and not the Level0?

Moved to the appropriate thread. See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Use-Search.
See answers above about the game ignoring translation on the root node.

See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs

No mention of the used tree mod and/or no full model or LOD models were uploaded.