Nexus Mod Removals - What's Next

[TechAngel85]

I have split some posts from an admin topic to start and continue this discussion openly with our community. We are discussing what is next for the mods within the Step Guides that have been removed from Nexus Mods due to their recent policy changes. We invite the community to join in and provide your opinions.

Main questions:

• Do we keep the mods that have been moved to other download sources or drop them?
  • What if alternative sources require additional registration/sign-in?
     

SkyrimSE Mods Currently Affected

• Consistent Older People
• Fixed Dragon Stalking Fix
• Bring Out Your Dead
• Helarchen Creek
• Oakwood

 

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@DoubleYou, @Greg, @z929669
Since Arthmoor can't open up to Guest due to bandwidth, the question is what to do with his mods? Do we require users to have another account to install the Guide or do we reevaluation each? Some (like CRF and ASLAL) will have to be patched, if included.

[DoubleYou]

Well, perhaps the patch(es) can be separate esl plug-ins. If so, they could be easily supported as an option. 

[Greg]

I'm leaning in the direction that we either make the mods optional or drop them, although I am concerned that making the mods optional means the extra hassle of creating three CR patches for every release.

[z929669]

His mods are obtainable just as any other mods are. Most of the SE ones are still on Nexus ... I just don't see any issue, just volatility.

[TechAngel85]

13 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

Well, perhaps the patch(es) can be separate esl plug-ins. If so, they could be easily supported as an option. 

Patches are part mod too, so doing that would require you to compact them in the CK every time you update.

12 hours ago, Greg said:

I'm leaning in the direction that we either make the mods optional or drop them, although I am concerned that making the mods optional means the extra hassle of creating three CR patches for every release.

 

11 hours ago, z929669 said:

His mods are obtainable just as any other mods are. Most of the SE ones are still on Nexus ... I just don't see any issue, just volatility.

I'm not making 3 different patches. It's all or nothing. Someone else can do the patching if that is the route it goes. Currently for SE the following require patching:

• ASLAL (CR)
• CRF (CR & LW)
• Oakwood (CR)

The rest are non-issue and can be optional. These however, the patching would not be optional. So if we reevaluate, it would be with these three (for now). Personally, the only one I'd miss is ASLAL, which is being patched for Location record ( necessary for things like events, ownerships, etc.). However, there is Skyrim Unbound Reborn that I have never tested before but could replace ASLAL. CRF is being patched for a lot of things as it touches a lot of things. Personally, I never really interact with the CRF content and dropping it would make life easier in patching. Oakwood is being patched for the Location record too, so Oakwood would have to be dropped because it can not be made optional. The extra content and town is nice, but not necessary imo. 

EDIT
Looks like Skyrim Unbound Reborn is incompatible with "Not So Fast - Main Quest", so we'd have to drop that too if the switch was made. It's possible ASLAL was incompatible, as well, and we weren't aware of it.

[z929669]

But exactly how is it different than before? Only the source. Nothing changes. Users either register to download, or they don't. Just like before. We make one patch, those mods are required like before. Once AFK gets a lot of people downloading, they may move back to a CDN (like Nexus).

This is just how it is. All said and done, it's not our problem, IMO.

[TechAngel85]

12 minutes ago, z929669 said:

But exactly how is it different than before? Only the source. Nothing changes. Users either register to download, or they don't. Just like before. We make one patch, those mods are required like before. Once AFK gets a lot of people downloading, they may move back to a CDN (like Nexus).

This is just how it is. All said and done, it's not our problem, IMO.

It's additional registrations that users may not be willing to do. Lets see what some of our userbase thinks about it. I'd rather not shoot ourselves in the foot by doing things that users aren't in agreement with.

[z929669]

9 minutes ago, TechAngel85 said:

It's additional registrations that users may not be willing to do. Lets see what some of our userbase thinks about it. I'd rather not shoot ourselves in the foot by doing things that users aren't in agreement with.

Some people will not want to register on AFK Mods to download, so they will have their own choice. It is what it is.

This will always be a 'problem', so it's no different if they are hosted on another site. By not using AFK Mods, we are basically restricting to Nexus only. Some of our mods are hosted from TES Alliance and other sources requiring user reg, but we aren't having the same discussion about those.

[TechAngel85]

14 minutes ago, z929669 said:

Some people will not want to register on AFK Mods to download, so they will have their own choice. It is what it is.

This will always be a 'problem', so it's no different if they are hosted on another site. By not using AFK Mods, we are basically restricting to Nexus only. Some of our mods are hosted from TES Alliance and other sources requiring user reg, but we aren't having the same discussion about those.

Only other off site we have is ENBDev (no reg) and ModDB (no reg). I don't know of any links pointing to TESAlliance. So really we're currently only requiring a registration to Nexus.

[z929669]

There are definitely mods on the wiki pointing to TES Alliance and others requiring reg. Maybe most are not in guides ATM. Either way, we should expect that this will be the case, especially in the future. It's unreasonable to confine all guide mods to Nexus only, IMO.

[Greg]

I don't recall seeing any mods from TES Alliance in the STEP Skyrim LE or SE guides, although I do see a lot of Arthmoor's mods on TES Alliance so it looks as if we may be to get these from either AFK mods or TES Alliance.

[TechAngel85]

Seems Arthmoor only removed three of his mods that we use for SE. I haven't checked SE yet. Regardless of the discussion and outcome of the alternative downloads, now would be a good time to reevaluate these mod's inclusion in the Guide. For example, the alternative to ASLAL that hasn't been tested and whether or not the CRF content is worth keeping in the Guide or not. Each of which can be discussed on their individual topics. I'll add these links to the OP.

[Eliian]

I'm personally ok with around 2 sites. Something like Nexus, and AFK. Whatever two sites would have the majority of mods. Other sites that do not require a login such as Moddb are fine as we have been using with SKyrim Realistic Overhaul.

[theblackman]

On one hand I can't believe we're having this conversation - and that's not a dig at anyone, btw.  We've all been a bit spoilt over the past decade or so with NM being the dominant hosting site for mods for Bethesda's game franchises.  I remember when (cue collective groans) mod users had to peruse multiple sites (PES, FileFront etc) to get the mods they wanted, although I can't remember if registration for each was mandatory.

On the other hand, it is good that we are seeing what users prefer here.

However, from various posts on the NM forums and elsewhere, I have noticed an interesting phenomenon which I've termed Nexus Mods Myopia, where:

1. because a mod has been deleted from NM, that mod ceases to exist entirely in the minds of some users; and/or

2. because some mod authors have deleted their mods from NM, that means the modding community is in a hopeless downward spiral.

So in the mind of some portion of the community, mods for Bethesda's games exist only on NM and NM constitutes the entire domain of the modding community.  I don't think STEP should be taking an action that tacitly entrenches that view.  Rather it should be encouraging a more diversified ecosystem which will benefit the entire community rather than tacitly supporting a monopsony.

So I agree with z929669.

Also, I would've appreciated getting a headsup email about this poll - I'm sure others would too.

[z929669]

2 hours ago, theblackman said:

On one hand I can't believe we're having this conversation - and that's not a dig at anyone, btw.  We've all been a bit spoilt over the past decade or so with NM being the dominant hosting site for mods for Bethesda's game franchises.  I remember when (cue collective groans) mod users had to peruse multiple sites (PES, FileFront etc) to get the mods they wanted, although I can't remember if registration for each was mandatory.

On the other hand, it is good that we are seeing what users prefer here.

However, from various posts on the NM forums and elsewhere, I have noticed an interesting phenomenon which I've termed Nexus Mods Myopia, where:

1. because a mod has been deleted from NM, that mod ceases to exist entirely; and/or

2. because some mod authors have deleted their mods from NM, that means the modding community is in a hopeless downward spiral.

So in the mind of some portion of the community, mods for Bethesda's games exist only on NM and NM constitutes the entire domain of the modding community.  I don't think STEP should be taking an action that tacitly entrenches that view.  Rather it should be encouraging a more diversified ecosystem which will benefit the entire community rather than tacitly supporting a monopsony.

So I agree with z929669.

Also, I would've appreciated getting a headsup email about this poll - I'm sure others would too.

Thanks for the feedback.

We avoid sending out bulk emails these days, but I have included a link to this topic in a few other areas.