Very unclear instructions for Even Better Quest Objectives

[Darklocq]

04 - 14 - Even Better Quest Objectives

The STEP instructions are very unclear, saying "select nothing" for the FOMOD's optional patches.  But the FOMOD auto-detects various mods that are present and enables patches for them.  It is unclear if STEP means "de-select everything" or "select nothing additional".  Given that this mod is not flagged as one of the dependencies of the STEP Conflict Resolution Patch, the safe bet appears to be to leave enabled all the patches the installer wants to include; they'll get merged into the final result anyway.

Also, it has a patch for The Paarthurnax Dilemma, which STEP has integrated (so the FOMOD did not detect it), and one wonders whether leaving that disabled is going to cause a problem.

If any/all of these patches should not be enabled, then STEP should be clear about this, and add something like "The STEP Conflict Resolution patch already handles patching for [mod names here]", so obsessive-compulsives don't over-enable patches they don't need.  If that's the case, then this mod should also have a green bar next to it, I would think, since it would seem to be part of the CR patch's dependency chain.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Darklocq
typo

[z929669]

35 minutes ago, Darklocq said:

04 - 14 - Even Better Quest Objectives

The STEP instructions are very unclear, saying "select nothing" for the FOMOD's optional patches.  But the FOMOD auto-detects various mods that are present and enables patches for them.  It is unclear if STEP means "de-select everything" or "select nothing additional".  Given that this mod is not flagged as one of the dependencies of the STEP Conflict Resolution Patch, the safe bet appears to be to leave enabled all the patches the installer wants to include; they'll get merged into the final result anyway.

Also, it has a patch for The Paarthurnax Dilemma, which STEP has integrated (so the FOMOD did not detect it), and one wonders whether leaving that disabled is going to cause a problem.

If any/all of these patches should not be enabled, then STEP should be clear about this, and add something like "The STEP Conflict Resolution patch already handles patching for [mod names here]", so obsessive-compulsives don't over-enable patches they don't need.  If that's the case, then this mod should also have a green bar next to it, I would think, since it would seem to be part of the CR patch's dependency chain.

You can look at EBQO, CR patch, and Paarthurnax in xEdit to verify, but I assume @TechAngel85 includes the patch equivalent in the patch. If so, then you should see the dependency for that. If it is a stand-alone change that does not conflict with any of the mods mentioned, then a green bar doesn't apply to any of these mods. I don't have the LE build set up, so it isn't convenient for me to check myself.

Also, the mod page already specifies that patches are included in the CR patch, so ....

I think the mod instructions are clear as is. You literally "select nothing" for the last two pieces. No more, no less.

[TechAngel85]

Deselect everything. Included in the patches.

[Darklocq]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:57 PM, TechAngel85 said:

Deselect everything. Included in the patches.

Thank you.

On 6/7/2021 at 10:16 AM, z929669 said:

I think the mod instructions are clear as is. You literally "select nothing" for the last two pieces. No more, no less.

They are not clear.  There's a major meaning difference between "select nothing" (take no action to select anything) and "deselect everything" (or "make sure no options are selected" and various other ways to phrase this), since options are apt to be selected already without any user action.  I.e. "You literally 'select nothing'" still results in items being pre-selected not by you. :-)

I've done technical writing (mostly documentation) for a living, so I think about these things.  Never underestimate the ability of end users to misinterpret!  LOL

[z929669]

1 minute ago, Darklocq said:

Thank you.

They are not clear.  There's a major meaning difference between "select nothing" (take no action to select anything) and "deselect everything" (or "make sure no options are selected" and various other ways to phrase this), since options are apt to be selected already without any user action.  I.e. "You literally 'select nothing'" still results in items being pre-selected not by you. :-)

I've done technical writing (mostly documentation) for a living, so I think about these things.  Never underestimate the ability of end users to misinterpret!  LOL

Yep, I didn't realize that the auto-selected stuff would need to be DEselected, so I agree in that case.

[Darklocq]

PS:

> Also, the mod page already specifies that patches are included in the CR patch, so ....

But this particular game guide is no longer being [very] actively maintained while many mods are.  STEP SLE 3.0.0 is already wrong about several FOMODs and the options in them, for example. There is no guarantee that the patches STEP was aware of last time that particular part of the guide was revised still match the options available in any given FOMOD.  Just stating upfront that the patches for thus-and-such, specifically, are already included in the STEP CR Patch is a better bet than forcing the user into assumptions and guesswork, and that will become more true over time.  Given that the detailed instructional verbiage is already collapse-boxed, it won't do anything to "bloat" the guide, and is likely to head off confusions (and further threads like this one).

I've found about 5 other places where 3.0.0 is forcing the user to assume that a FOMOD or downloads-page patch is probably already in the CR Patch (if they're really much aware of the CR patch yet, which is mostly later in the guide).

Edited June 9, 2021 by Darklocq
clarify

[Darklocq]

PPS: I'm documenting these instructional glitches as I go, so I'll bring them up later. I.e., I know exactly which FOMODs have changed to no longer match STEP instructions, etc.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Darklocq
typo

[z929669]

2 hours ago, Darklocq said:

PPS: I'm documenting these instructional glitches as I go, so I'll bring them up later. I.e., I know exactly which FOMODs have changed to no longer match STEP instructions, etc.

I created a new thread with a new idea, so let's move it over there, as it is getting OT for this topic.

RE your previous post: Mod instructions bloat is no issue. If things change, instructions need to change.