STEP Skyrim SE Guide v0.2.0 Beta Release

[Mercury71]

Having just gone through the guide I can assure you there are not actually that many which is why I suggested it to begin with. If it was like every mod, I wouldn't have suggested it because that would defeat the purpose since you would still have to go through every mod.

I have a STEP Extended profile where i add my personal flawor on top of the guide. Atm there are 20-22 mods in it, most of them changing gameplay, stats, perks and such (not a single texture mod) and just these 20-22 have me add another 6 patches to the list (following loot advice and what is said on the mod pages).

One other problem when a modlist gets bigger is that you not always even want all the patches.

Patch between mod A and B might be fine but when adding mod C you might not even want the changes in the patch for mod A and B. Get me here?

Many patches out there is not always to "fix" things to avoid ctd or somthing but rather to balance the mods... and that is not always what you want in a big list. When the list gets longer i tend to use xEdit and Wrye Bash or Mator Smash to get things as i want them.

For example in STEP we should let Loot descide load order. But as soon as you add a lot more mods you have to think for your self.

Say you have 6 mods with plugins that effects perks... then you really want to be in controll both over patches and loadorder to get the end result you want for your game.

There has been times when i have addad patches without redaing what they actually do (or checked in XEdit) just to be confused ingame because the patch maby changes back things i did not want to get changed.

This is why i stopped trying to follow big guides like the eminent Lexys. There are just to many mods i dont like and to much job to get those mods out of the guide.

Maintaining a guide for Skyrim is an gigantic task because people will always add or sobstract to there own flawor (not to mention doing technincal misstakes during install).

Therefore keeping STEP Core-guide to a minimum basic is the right way to go i think and might lead to more people like maby you or me publishing our Extended lists after 3.0 is released. :)

[evmiller]

So this is just some feedback while I am finally getting the chance to go through STEP. There are mods within STEP that often have patches for other mods that are not included in STEP. The thing is, sometimes we may not know what mods we intend to add till after we are finished going through it. It can sometimes be a little frustrating to try and figure out which mods need to be reinstalled or have a separate install for a different profile that includes the patches you may need. (Hopefully that made sense.) Basically having to go through all the mods again one by one just to check.

 

Just to give a good example of what I mean. I know Realistic Water Two has a needs patch if you use a mod like iNeed. So my point here is, I think it would be useful in the gude if maybe it mentions what mods have patches for commonly used mods not included in STEP. Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general. That way it's easy at just a quick glance of which mods we should look at when adding mods on top of STEP.

 

Or another good example of if someone was to install UNP or CBBE. It would be good to have this marked as well, where mods may have a version for them or may even not work with them and need to be turned off.

 

It's just a suggestion really. I would say LOOT tends to give suggestions on such things, but it's not always 100% if you know what I mean.

 

For now I just have been using MO2's note system to make notes when I see patches for mods I might be adding later. But I think it's inevitable that I will miss some.

The easiest way to do this is when you are installing a mod and you notice options in the FOMOD or on the mod author's 'Optional Files' area that you think you'll need later simply put an (*) at the begining of the mods tile in MO2 and make a quick note using the note tool. Later you can quickly scroll back up your mod list looking for mod's you've put an (*) on.

[TechAngel85]

I think the biggest issue is that users still don't know how to use xEdit to check their load orders. A quick conflict check would tell anyone whether or not they needed patches for mods they're adding on their own.

 

I get that a lot of users still don't know how to use xEdit, though, and that it can be intimidating. However, I highly suggest learning the basics, at least. Users will quickly see the most complicated thing is learning what forwards to make to get their desired results. It's just like learning anything new, the more you practice the easier it becomes. Once you know, more or less, what you're doing you can eliminate a lot of patches from your load orders by patching the mods yourself into a single patch.

[ThatMarchingBunny]

I have a STEP Extended profile where i add my personal flawor on top of the guide. Atm there are 20-22 mods in it, most of them changing gameplay, stats, perks and such (not a single texture mod) and just these 20-22 have me add another 6 patches to the list (following loot advice and what is said on the mod pages).

One other problem when a modlist gets bigger is that you not always even want all the patches.

Patch between mod A and B might be fine but when adding mod C you might not even want the changes in the patch for mod A and B. Get me here?

Many patches out there is not always to "fix" things to avoid ctd or somthing but rather to balance the mods... and that is not always what you want in a big list. When the list gets longer i tend to use xEdit and Wrye Bash or Mator Smash to get things as i want them.

For example in STEP we should let Loot descide load order. But as soon as you add a lot more mods you have to think for your self.

Say you have 6 mods with plugins that effects perks... then you really want to be in controll both over patches and loadorder to get the end result you want for your game.

There has been times when i have addad patches without redaing what they actually do (or checked in XEdit) just to be confused ingame because the patch maby changes back things i did not want to get changed.

This is why i stopped trying to follow big guides like the eminent Lexys. There are just to many mods i dont like and to much job to get those mods out of the guide.

Maintaining a guide for Skyrim is an gigantic task because people will always add or sobstract to there own flawor (not to mention doing technincal misstakes during install).

Therefore keeping STEP Core-guide to a minimum basic is the right way to go i think and might lead to more people like maby you or me publishing our Extended lists after 3.0 is released. :)

I think this highly depends on what mods you are installing. For example, I typically never install conflicting mods (or at least try my best not to) to the point that a patch wouldn't do something I didn't want it to do .. and even if it did .. I really don't care. I actually specifically work this way because I don't want to go through the tiring process of then needing to go through xEdit or micromanaging little details on how each thing works. And quite frankly, I don't even really know how to use xEdit enough. And I get a lot of people will say you should just learn to do it (heck it probably be even pretty easy), but let's be 100% honest here. I have a life. I have a job. I don't have all the time in the world to be faffing around with stuff like that. It's bad enough it already takes so dang long to mod Skyrim as it is. I don't want to make the process any more complicated. In fact, it's the reason I personally like guides like STEP to begin with. 

 

Also, I suspect most people are like me and not like you in terms of how they mod. Whether or not a patch is going to do what they want ... they probably have not even thought that far ahead or considered it. And if it really is more based on what you want a mod to do, then MO2 and LOOT needs to seriously stop with all the warnings and messages or at least reword them. It's similar to how MO2 warns you about form 43 mods, when the reality is ... not all of them need to be updated to form 44 as far as I am aware. But that doesn't stop the dang warning from popping up.

 

And the same goes with LOOT, it will give you warning or whatever telling you that you have such and such installed and need such and such patch. Anyone who isn't an expert is obviously going to assume they need the patch 100% ... right? or that they absolutely need to load a mod in creation kit ... right?

 

Anyway, my main point here ... not everyone following STEP is going to be an expert at modding. In fact, I would say most wouldn't be and that is why they are following a guide to begin with. Which is why I also think they are going to need help when they want to add their own mods. Luckily for me, I know just enough to work through it.

 

 

The easiest way to do this is when you are installing a mod and you notice options in the FOMOD or on the mod author's 'Optional Files' area that you think you'll need later simply put an (*) at the begining of the mods tile in MO2 and make a quick note using the note tool. Later you can quickly scroll back up your mod list looking for mod's you've put an (*) on.

Yep, it's pretty much what I did. Also, used LOOT to go through everything.

[Kattmandu]

I think the biggest issue is that users still don't know how to use xEdit to check their load orders. A quick conflict check would tell anyone whether or not they needed patches for mods they're adding on their own.

 

I get that a lot of users still don't know how to use xEdit, though, and that it can be intimidating. However, I highly suggest learning the basics, at least. Users will quickly see the most complicated thing is learning what forwards to make to get their desired results. It's just like learning anything new, the more you practice the easier it becomes. Once you know, more or less, what you're doing you can eliminate a lot of patches from your load orders by patching the mods yourself into a single patch.

I'm guilty of this for sure.  Is there a guide you can recommend to learn how to do this.

[TechAngel85]

I'd recommend just watching some youtube videos over how to make mod patches. A quick search finds several good ones of users showing them making patching for various mods.

 

(old but still good "general" explanation)

 

[DreamerSteamer]

Was wondering what the next steps (no pun intended lol) are for the STEP SE Guide, since the mathematical difference between 0.2 and 1.0 makes it feel like there is still quite a way to go, just don't see what there is left to do aside from testing and polishing, considering the guide is already pretty comprehensive with the amount of mods used.

[z929669]

Not much will be added with the major version. It's more about the paradigm release. There will be changes to the guide though, but only semantic changes to the guide structure and function.

[TechAngel85]

If you're wondering about mods. There are still some mods that will likely be added to the Guide, but nothing like this last release. We're also planning to add some more to the end ot the Guide, such as generating updated occlusion data terrain. However, the Guide is far closer to how it will be with the final release.

I think what Z was pointing to was mainly the change in format from the wiki to the CMS at release.

[Mercury71]

Will xLODGen be used for the terrain lod in the final guide? I dont dare to run it untill guide say so. :)

[TechAngel85]

Will xLODGen be used for the terrain lod in the final guide? I dont dare to run it untill guide say so. :)

Yes.

[Mercury71]

Yes.

Trying to find info if it is ok to run xLODGen after running DyndoLOD but i can not find it (just rebuild my LODs yesterday after reinstalling the whole guide)?

 

Will we be using SSE_Terrain_Tamriel.esm?

[TechAngel85]

Trying to find info if it is ok to run xLODGen after running DyndoLOD but i can not find it (just rebuild my LODs yesterday after reinstalling the whole guide)?

 

Will we be using SSE_Terrain_Tamriel.esm?

It's okay to run it after and should actually do it after when updating the occlusion data.

 

Yes, we will use that file. If you're trying to learn it, now, with the Guide installed you'll need to grab the file from Landscape - Cathedral Concept as well.

[Mercury71]

It's okay to run it after and should actually do it after when updating the occlusion data.

 

Yes, we will use that file. If you're trying to learn it, now, with the Guide installed you'll need to grab the file from Landscape - Cathedral Concept as well.

Great. Should i incclude the Occlusion with the Terrain LOD generation or rerun xLODgen just for occlusion after?

[TechAngel85]

Great. Should i incclude the Occlusion with the Terrain LOD generation or rerun xLODgen just for occlusion after?

Personally, I see that as two different processes, therefore, I'd do them separately so that I could test in between each process.

 

You might as well add this mod in, if you're going to generate. The only reason it's not a part of the Guide now is because the Terrain LOD section has yet to be added to the Guide: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30603