STEP Skyrim SE Guide v0.2.0 Beta Release

[DreamerSteamer]

Quick question regarding Smithing Perks Overhaul SE, which version should we use? I suppose Modified Vanilla, since that was also the version used in the 2.10 LE Guide.

[TechAngel85]

Quick question regarding Smithing Perks Overhaul SE, which version should we use? I suppose Modified Vanilla, since that was also the version used in the 2.10 LE Guide.

Really, it's user's choice. Vanilla will give you more of the vanilla feel, while the new Perk Tree option will get you the full intent of the mod.

[wojsku]

For Havok fix may be a good idea to add in the notes that it conflicts with FPS counter applications like Fraps and Riva Tuner Statistics Server which comes with MSI's Afterburner and some other applications. The mod simply doesn't work when used with the mentioned applications.

[wojsku]

Realistic Water Two in FOMOD has an optional patch for Landscape Fixes for Grass Mods. Is this integrated into the STEP patch or not needed?

[TechAngel85]

Realistic Water Two in FOMOD has an optional patch for Landscape Fixes for Grass Mods. Is this integrated into the STEP patch or not needed?

No, you should check it/leave it checked. I've updated the FOMOD instructions.

 

Thanks for your report!

[ThatMarchingBunny]

So this is just some feedback while I am finally getting the chance to go through STEP. There are mods within STEP that often have patches for other mods that are not included in STEP. The thing is, sometimes we may not know what mods we intend to add till after we are finished going through it. It can sometimes be a little frustrating to try and figure out which mods need to be reinstalled or have a separate install for a different profile that includes the patches you may need. (Hopefully that made sense.) Basically having to go through all the mods again one by one just to check.

Just to give a good example of what I mean. I know Realistic Water Two has a needs patch if you use a mod like iNeed. So my point here is, I think it would be useful in the gude if maybe it mentions what mods have patches for commonly used mods not included in STEP. Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general. That way it's easy at just a quick glance of which mods we should look at when adding mods on top of STEP.

Or another good example of if someone was to install UNP or CBBE. It would be good to have this marked as well, where mods may have a version for them or may even not work with them and need to be turned off.

It's just a suggestion really. I would say LOOT tends to give suggestions on such things, but it's not always 100% if you know what I mean.

For now I just have been using MO2's note system to make notes when I see patches for mods I might be adding later. But I think it's inevitable that I will miss some.

[Mercury71]

So this is just some feedback while I am finally getting the chance to go through STEP. There are mods within STEP that often have patches for other mods that are not included in STEP. The thing is, sometimes we may not know what mods we intend to add till after we are finished going through it. It can sometimes be a little frustrating to try and figure out which mods need to be reinstalled or have a separate install for a different profile that includes the patches you may need. (Hopefully that made sense.) Basically having to go through all the mods again one by one just to check.

 

Just to give a good example of what I mean. I know Realistic Water Two has a needs patch if you use a mod like iNeed. So my point here is, I think it would be useful in the gude if maybe it mentions what mods have patches for commonly used mods not included in STEP. Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general. That way it's easy at just a quick glance of which mods we should look at when adding mods on top of STEP.

 

Or another good example of if someone was to install UNP or CBBE. It would be good to have this marked as well, where mods may have a version for them or may even not work with them and need to be turned off.

 

It's just a suggestion really. I would say LOOT tends to give suggestions on such things, but it's not always 100% if you know what I mean.

 

For now I just have been using MO2's note system to make notes when I see patches for mods I might be adding later. But I think it's inevitable that I will miss some.

At first this idea sounds good... problem is there are so many mods aout there. Where to draw the line between "popular and often used mods" in an "Extended STEP SE"-build and where not to?

I have come so far that i often go for less popular mods. I do not use Ordinator, iNeed, Campfire, Apaocalypse, Imperious Races, Noble and so on... but i often do use mods that do the same sort of changes (but smaller more slimlined and more to my taste). I have realised that many of the most popular/downloaded mods are trown in guides/lists just because they are popular rather than a good mod for that guide/list. So i do not hope that STEP will litter up the guide with information about mnods not in the guide. I am shure there will be many fantastic guides with extended STEP SE lists soon avfter official release aimed at different flawors. :)

 

[ThatMarchingBunny]

At first this idea sounds good... problem is there are so many mods aout there. Where to draw the line between "popular and often used mods" in an "Extended STEP SE"-build and where not to?

I have come so far that i often go for less popular mods. I do not use Ordinator, iNeed, Campfire, Apaocalypse, Imperious Races, Noble and so on... but i often do use mods that do the same sort of changes (but smaller more slimlined and more to my taste). I have realised that many of the most popular/downloaded mods are trown in guides/lists just because they are popular rather than a good mod for that guide/list. So i do not hope that STEP will litter up the guide with information about mnods not in the guide. I am shure there will be many fantastic guides with extended STEP SE lists soon avfter official release aimed at different flawors. :)

Which is why I specifically said "Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general."

 

The idea here is to be able to scroll through the list of mods, and know what mods have patches for other mods that you should look at after you have added your own mods. That way you don't even need to put in any additional information. It just would make it easier to know which mods I should look at after having added on top of STEP. I would even say this is probably a very easy thing to implement. It's kinda like the little green bar they use to show what mod is included in the STEP patch. We just need another indicator to show what mods have additional patches, whether that be on their main page, sub page, or in the installer itself.

 

I also understand that new guides will be released which extend STEP, but that doesn't solve the problem if a person is wanting to do their own thing. Right now, our only solution is to go through all the step mods again one by one just to make sure. Or try and use loot and go through what patches it says are missing while ignoring anything included in the STEP Patch of course.

[Mercury71]

Which is why I specifically said "Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general."

 

The idea here is to be able to scroll through the list of mods, and know what mods have patches for other mods that you should look at after you have added your own mods. That way you don't even need to put in any additional information. It just would make it easier to know which mods I should look at after having added on top of STEP. I would even say this is probably a very easy thing to implement. It's kinda like the little green bar they use to show what mod is included in the STEP patch. We just need another indicator to show what mods have additional patches, whether that be on their main page, sub page, or in the installer itself.

 

I also understand that new guides will be released which extend STEP, but that doesn't solve the problem if a person is wanting to do their own thing. Right now, our only solution is to go through all the step mods again one by one just to make sure. Or try and use loot and go through what patches it says are missing while ignoring anything included in the STEP Patch of course.

I understand what you mean but there are several patches out there for many of the mods in STEP SE, so there would be a "mark" at basicaly every "game mechanic / game play change" mod in the list.

I am just thinkin about how many patches there is for mods like WAACF, Immersive Citicens, CAACO, RW2, Complete Craftoing Overhaul and so on.

If TechAngel is up for it... well.... ok then.

[TechAngel85]

So this is just some feedback while I am finally getting the chance to go through STEP. There are mods within STEP that often have patches for other mods that are not included in STEP. The thing is, sometimes we may not know what mods we intend to add till after we are finished going through it. It can sometimes be a little frustrating to try and figure out which mods need to be reinstalled or have a separate install for a different profile that includes the patches you may need. (Hopefully that made sense.) Basically having to go through all the mods again one by one just to check.

 

Just to give a good example of what I mean. I know Realistic Water Two has a needs patch if you use a mod like iNeed. So my point here is, I think it would be useful in the gude if maybe it mentions what mods have patches for commonly used mods not included in STEP. Or maybe just a note or some sort of indication for mods that have patch files in general. That way it's easy at just a quick glance of which mods we should look at when adding mods on top of STEP.

 

Or another good example of if someone was to install UNP or CBBE. It would be good to have this marked as well, where mods may have a version for them or may even not work with them and need to be turned off.

 

It's just a suggestion really. I would say LOOT tends to give suggestions on such things, but it's not always 100% if you know what I mean.

 

For now I just have been using MO2's note system to make notes when I see patches for mods I might be adding later. But I think it's inevitable that I will miss some.

The problem is the change in how the Guides are presented. From STEP v3.0 and on there will only be one Guide per game and that Guide is definitive. We're no longer (specifically) supporting adding mods onto our Guides. Users can certainly do so, but they're on their own. We're no longer catering the Guide to be super flexible as it has been in the past. The Guides are meant to be installed "as is" from this point on. Thus the lack of all the extra patches we used to offer for flexibility.

 

Therefore, everything you are doing is beyond the scope of the Guide (from v3.0 and beyond) and we can't cater to such situations any longer. It simply takes too much time and effort, especially if we're going to grow STEP beyond just the Skyrim Guides.

[ThatMarchingBunny]

The problem is the change in how the Guides are presented. From STEP v3.0 and on there will only be one Guide per game and that Guide is definitive. We're no longer (specifically) supporting adding mods onto our Guides. Users can certainly do so, but they're on their own. We're no longer catering the Guide to be super flexible as it has been in the past. The Guides are meant to be installed "as is" from this point on. Thus the lack of all the extra patches we used to offer for flexibility.

 

Therefore, everything you are doing is beyond the scope of the Guide (from v3.0 and beyond) and we can't cater to such situations any longer. It simply takes too much time and effort, especially if we're going to grow STEP beyond just the Skyrim Guides.

Ahh, I didn't realize you were going that route considering I figured, in many if not most use cases of this guide, users would obviously be adding mods on top of it. Not trying to be a ... party pooper here. It's just I can't imagine anyone actually viewing this guide as being "definitive" or some sort of end stop. I understand the point .. but that would be like a mod developer assuming only their mod would be used in a game and design it as such rather than taking into account how most people play.

 

But I mean, it's all up to you. Your guide afterall lol. Guess, I will just have to do things the hard way.

[ThatMarchingBunny]

I understand what you mean but there are several patches out there for many of the mods in STEP SE, so there would be a "mark" at basicaly every "game mechanic / game play change" mod in the list.

I am just thinkin about how many patches there is for mods like WAACF, Immersive Citicens, CAACO, RW2, Complete Craftoing Overhaul and so on.

If TechAngel is up for it... well.... ok then.

Having just gone through the guide I can assure you there are not actually that many which is why I suggested it to begin with. If it was like every mod, I wouldn't have suggested it because that would defeat the purpose since you would still have to go through every mod.

[TechAngel85]

Ahh, I didn't realize you were going that route considering I figured, in many if not most use cases of this guide, users would obviously be adding mods on top of it. Not trying to be a ... party pooper here. It's just I can't imagine anyone actually viewing this guide as being "definitive" or some sort of end stop. I understand the point .. but that would be like a mod developer assuming only their mod would be used in a game and design it as such rather than taking into account how most people play.

 

But I mean, it's all up to you. Your guide afterall lol. Guess, I will just have to do things the hard way.

It's not that we don't expect users to add mods on top of the Guides. I do it myself, however, it's just that going forward we can't cater Guide changes and updates toward flexibility as we used to do. Users are more on their own now than in the past. It's a necessary step to take, if we're to grow to anything more; else, keeping the Guide flexible will take all of our time as it has done in the past.

 

What you've asked for is something that has been asked for many time over the years. It's just too much maintenance overhead for us to reasonably do, atm. Especially since the Guides are a one-man-task right now...that one person is myself. We no longer have a team working on the Guide, as all who were interested in the work have retired. Hence a lot of the refinement I did for the SE Guide was to reduce it's maintenance overhead as much as possible. I'm very reluctant to add anything that will lead to more maintenance.

[ThatMarchingBunny]

It's not that we don't expect users to add mods on top of the Guides. I do it myself, however, it's just that going forward we can't cater Guide changes and updates toward flexibility as we used to do. Users are more on their own now than in the past. It's a necessary step to take, if we're to grow to anything more; else, keeping the Guide flexible will take all of our time as it has done in the past.

 

What you've asked for is something that has been asked for many time over the years. It's just too much maintenance overhead for us to reasonably do, atm. Especially since the Guides are a one-man-task right now...that one person is myself. We no longer have a team working on the Guide, as all who were interested in the work have retired. Hence a lot of the refinement I did for the SE Guide was to reduce it's maintenance overhead as much as possible. I'm very reluctant to add anything that will lead to more maintenance.

Fair enough. Guess that's just something I should have expected given how old Skyrim is. Thanks for the answer though.

[Kattmandu]

It's just too much maintenance overhead for us to reasonably do, atm. Especially since the Guides are a one-man-task right now...that one person is myself. We no longer have a team working on the Guide, as all who were interested in the work have retired.

A big appreciative thanks to you and z929669 for sticking around and keeping the lights on for us all!  Sure, there are other guides out there and I'm sure they are great but I like the STEP guide for keeping Skyrim as lore-friendly as possible.