Skyrim TVDT - Occlusion Culling Data

[PegasusKoga]

I wish i could say something more professional than "occlusion.esp caused the crashes when getting near Karthwasten either by walking there or through COC and removing the plugin stopped the CTDs" but i can't.  For what it's worth, the crash logger pointed to Occlusion.esp as the cause too.

The only thing i could have done wrong was to install one more magic mod (Glowtastic) after generating Lod through Dyndolod and creating the Occlusion.esp

I reinstalled it for now because i can imagine it would be even more detrimental to stability if i keep it out but i would like to fix this.

Now that my load order is definite, should i go through the entire process of generating Lod again or would it be better to take a look at my current Occlusion.esp with SSEEdit to look for oddities?

Or can i simply keep playing without the plugin?  Is it absolutely required?  Frankly, it's almost 3:00 AM now and i was hoping to find a quick solution to this mess before i fall asleep on my couch.

*Edit*  Found a lot of useful information here: https://dyndolod.info/Help/Occlusion-Data it's a relief to know i can update the occlusion.esp only.  It will help me make an informed decision this evening when my face is less tired.

Still, if anyone has any pointers, feel free to share them.

Edited July 23 by PegasusKoga

[PegasusKoga]

I'm even more confused.

Updating the Occlusion.esp by unchecking everything except Occlusion Data and Occlusion Plugin in Dyndolod gave me the exact same file and i still got the crash.  Removing the plugin from my data folder and creating one from scratch through the same steps yielded an esp that was a hundred times smaller in size and which doesn't do anything except removing the crash, probably because it is nearly empty and doesn't contain data for the Tamriel world space.

What are the downsides of keeping it that way, like a placebo?  Performance loss because things out of view aren't being hidden anymore?  I have a pretty beefy PC with an Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 card to compensate that.  Or will the loss of data damage my saves over time?

Honestly, i just want this over and done with.  I'd rather keep the placebo plugin if it means i will no longer have crashes near Karthwasten and it doesn't harm my saves.

[sheson]

3 hours ago, PegasusKoga said:

I wish i could say something more professional than "occlusion.esp caused the crashes when getting near Karthwasten either by walking there or through COC and removing the plugin stopped the CTDs" but i can't.  For what it's worth, the crash logger pointed to Occlusion.esp as the cause too.

The only thing i could have done wrong was to install one more magic mod (Glowtastic) after generating Lod through Dyndolod and creating the Occlusion.esp

I reinstalled it for now because i can imagine it would be even more detrimental to stability if i keep it out but i would like to fix this.

Now that my load order is definite, should i go through the entire process of generating Lod again or would it be better to take a look at my current Occlusion.esp with SSEEdit to look for oddities?

Or can i simply keep playing without the plugin?  Is it absolutely required?  Frankly, it's almost 3:00 AM now and i was hoping to find a quick solution to this mess before i fall asleep on my couch.

*Edit*  Found a lot of useful information here: https://dyndolod.info/Help/Occlusion-Data it's a relief to know i can update the occlusion.esp only.  It will help me make an informed decision this evening when my face is less tired.

Still, if anyone has any pointers, feel free to share them.

Read https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum
Report the actual problem or error message without making assumptions or asking leading questions. Read the explanations and tips below, especially about what information and logs to provide and how.

As explained in https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Check-the-FAQ check the FAQ, for example https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#ILS-or-CTD

https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs
When making posts about a CTD in the game, it seem obvious to also provide the crash log.

It is very unlikely that Occlusion.esp causes crashes by itself, it only contains copies of worldspace and cell records from the load order with updated data for LOD visibility, which itself can not really cause crashes.

44 minutes ago, PegasusKoga said:

I'm even more confused.

Updating the Occlusion.esp by unchecking everything except Occlusion Data and Occlusion Plugin in Dyndolod gave me the exact same file and i still got the crash.  Removing the plugin from my data folder and creating one from scratch through the same steps yielded an esp that was a hundred times smaller in size and which doesn't do anything except removing the crash, probably because it is nearly empty and doesn't contain data for the Tamriel world space.

What are the downsides of keeping it that way, like a placebo?  Performance loss because things out of view aren't being hidden anymore?  I have a pretty beefy PC with an Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 card to compensate that.  Or will the loss of data damage my saves over time?

Honestly, i just want this over and done with.  I'd rather keep the placebo plugin if it means i will no longer have crashes near Karthwasten and it doesn't harm my saves.

No logs, before or after, were provided.

Doing random things instead of proper troubleshooting to find and actually fixing the actual cause of a problem is a waste of time.

[PegasusKoga]

4 minutes ago, sheson said:

Read https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum
Report the actual problem or error message without making assumptions or asking leading questions. Read the explanations and tips below, especially about what information and logs to provide and how.

As explained in https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Check-the-FAQ check the FAQ, for example https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#ILS-or-CTD

https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs
When making posts about a CTD in the game, it seem obvious to also provide the crash log.

It is very unlikely that Occlusion.esp causes crashes by itself, it only contains copies of worldspace and cell records from the load order with updated data for LOD visibility, which itself can not really cause crashes.

Thanks, but at this point all i really want to know is whether disabling the Occlusion.esp is going to impair the stability of my saves.  Because i do not know if it adds new records or only replaces vanilla ones.  After three days of obsessing over this particularly vile crash, i'm more than done with troubleshooting, honestly.

If it turns out i can't disable it, then i'll get back to trying to fix it through regular means... eventually.

[sheson]

16 minutes ago, PegasusKoga said:

Thanks, but at this point all i really want to know is whether disabling the Occlusion.esp is going to impair the stability of my saves.  Because i do not know if it adds new records or only replaces vanilla ones.  After three days of obsessing over this particularly vile crash, i'm more than done with troubleshooting, honestly.

If it turns out i can't disable it, then i'll get back to trying to fix it through regular means... eventually.

No logs were provided.

It is very unlikely that Occlusion.esp is the cause of the issue.
Occlusion.esp does not add new records. The worldspace and cell records it overwrites are copied from the plugins before it.

Generating Occlusion.esp is optional. See https://dyndolod.info/Help/Occlusion-Data

It seems the requirements to use DynDOLOD are not met. I suggest to remove the entire output and tools and follow a proper modding guide to setup a stable game and load order of mods.

[PegasusKoga]

35 minutes ago, sheson said:

No logs were provided.

It is very unlikely that Occlusion.esp is the cause of the issue.
Occlusion.esp does not add new records. The worldspace and cell records it overwrites are copied from the plugins before it.

Generating Occlusion.esp is optional. See https://dyndolod.info/Help/Occlusion-Data

It seems the requirements to use DynDOLOD are not met. I suggest to remove the entire output and tools and follow a proper modding guide to setup a stable game and load order of mods.

I think that's the best piece of advice anybody has given me today.  I will take a break of a few days and then follow it.

[PegasusKoga]

I just wanted to add as an addendum that the Karthwasten crashes stopped after i replaced Occlusion.esp with a blank plugin of the same name.

It will be a stopgap solution until i can figure out where the real issue lies.

Strangely enough, i could not find any errors in the Occlusion.esp but found several in Dyndolod.esp and esm so something must have gone wrong during lod generation.  I blame this entirely on my load order, not the tool itself.

[sheson]

19 minutes ago, PegasusKoga said:

I just wanted to add as an addendum that the Karthwasten crashes stopped after i replaced Occlusion.esp with a blank plugin of the same name.

It will be a stopgap solution until i can figure out where the real issue lies.

Strangely enough, i could not find any errors in the Occlusion.esp but found several in Dyndolod.esp and esm so something must have gone wrong during lod generation.  I blame this entirely on my load order, not the tool itself.

No logs were provided.

It seems pointless to replace an optional plugin that is build from the winning records of the winning plugins with a blank plugin. Just do not enable the plugin once you recorded and uploaded the crash log together with the log and debug log from DynDOLOD.

https://dyndolod.info
The tools are shared for free with the specific requirement to provide feedback and to report any problems including logs and other requested information to the official DynDOLOD support forum in order to advance their improve and advance their development for all users.

See https://dyndolod.info/FAQ#Checking-DynDOLOD-plugins-for-errors-with-xEdit

[z929669]

On 7/23/2024 at 2:24 PM, PegasusKoga said:

I just wanted to add as an addendum that the Karthwasten crashes stopped after i replaced Occlusion.esp with a blank plugin of the same name.

It will be a stopgap solution until i can figure out where the real issue lies.

Strangely enough, i could not find any errors in the Occlusion.esp but found several in Dyndolod.esp and esm so something must have gone wrong during lod generation.  I blame this entirely on my load order, not the tool itself.

Sorry to jump in, but why not provide the required logs? This will fast-track resolution any issue you are having. So much less work for you.

Many DynDOLOD logs reuse the same file for each new session/generation of LOD. Only the last one is usually of interest, because it's assumed that this contains evidence of the problem being discussed. Truncate large log files to the entire meaningful session of the last/bottom part of the log file beginning with the log message  "... starting session ..." 

Find the following three logs in your DynDOLOD installation:

..\DynDOLOD\bugreport.txt (this one may not exist)
..\DynDOLOD\Logs\[DynDOLOD|TexGen]_[TES5|ENDERAL|SSE|TES5VR|ENDERALSE]_log.txt (TRUNCATE)
..\DynDOLOD\Logs\[DynDOLOD|TexGen]_[TES5|ENDERAL|SSE|TES5VR|ENDERALSE]_Debug_log.txt (DO NOT truncate; contains only the last session)

Compress these into a zip or 7z file. Share it using whatever file-service you use.

[PegasusKoga]

On 7/25/2024 at 4:24 AM, z929669 said:

Sorry to jump in, but why not provide the required logs? This will fast-track resolution any issue you are having. So much less work for you.

Many DynDOLOD logs reuse the same file for each new session/generation of LOD. Only the last one is usually of interest, because it's assumed that this contains evidence of the problem being discussed. Truncate large log files to the entire meaningful session of the last/bottom part of the log file beginning with the log message  "... starting session ..." 

Find the following three logs in your DynDOLOD installation:

..\DynDOLOD\bugreport.txt (this one may not exist)
..\DynDOLOD\Logs\[DynDOLOD|TexGen]_[TES5|ENDERAL|SSE|TES5VR|ENDERALSE]_log.txt (TRUNCATE)
..\DynDOLOD\Logs\[DynDOLOD|TexGen]_[TES5|ENDERAL|SSE|TES5VR|ENDERALSE]_Debug_log.txt (DO NOT truncate; contains only the last session)

Compress these into a zip or 7z file. Share it using whatever file-service you use.

I'm sorry, i know you want to help, but i can't.  Let's just leave it at that.

[Elaura]

Hi! I have recently realized Occlusion.esp doesn't bring forward Editor ID changes from mods such as Depths of Skyrim and Gnomes- Mihail Monsters and Animals (SE-AE version). It also doesn't bring forward region and zone info from Unique Region Names and Missing Encounter Zones. 

URN is currently hidden for updating. in my load order, URN and MEZ were flagged as ESLs when I generated Dynolod with the accompanying Occlusion.esp. DoS and Mihail's mods are not flagged as lite ESPs.

I am currently bringing the changes forward one at a time in xEdit.

I am running latest Skyrim AE with the latest STEP Guide and additional mods. I use MO2.

ALSO: 
I have age-related vision impairment and I've probably lost at least one IQ point for every year I've been alive, so please forgive me if this issue is addressed in the manual or elsewhere in this forum.

Thank you and let me know if this is something I should take up with the individual mod authors.

 

EDIT: Occlusion generation also doesn't bring forward XLCN - Location information such as FrostmereCryptLocation from USSEP as well as Helarchen Creek and Telengard by Arthmoor. Other mods are also affected.

Edited November 6 by Elaura
Additional information

[sheson]

6 hours ago, Elaura said:

Hi! I have recently realized Occlusion.esp doesn't bring forward Editor ID changes from mods such as Depths of Skyrim and Gnomes- Mihail Monsters and Animals (SE-AE version). It also doesn't bring forward region and zone info from Unique Region Names and Missing Encounter Zones. 

URN is currently hidden for updating. in my load order, URN and MEZ were flagged as ESLs when I generated Dynolod with the accompanying Occlusion.esp. DoS and Mihail's mods are not flagged as lite ESPs.

I am currently bringing the changes forward one at a time in xEdit.

I am running latest Skyrim AE with the latest STEP Guide and additional mods. I use MO2.

ALSO: 
I have age-related vision impairment and I've probably lost at least one IQ point for every year I've been alive, so please forgive me if this issue is addressed in the manual or elsewhere in this forum.

Thank you and let me know if this is something I should take up with the individual mod authors.

 

EDIT: Occlusion generation also doesn't bring forward XLCN - Location information such as FrostmereCryptLocation from USSEP as well as Helarchen Creek and Telengard by Arthmoor. Other mods are also affected.

No logs were provided. See https://dyndolod.info/Official-DynDOLOD-Support-Forum#Post-Logs

See https://dyndolod.info/Help/Load-Overwrite-Orders
When the plugins are generated, records from the last plugin that is the winning overwrite are copied to create the DynDOLOD plugins and Occlusion.esp. Sort and finalize the load order before generating the LOD patch. If any other plugins are added later consider to generate new output from scratch again.

Occlusion generation copies the worldspace and cell records of the winning plugins at the time of generation time. Finalize the load order before generating the LOD patch / Occlusion.esp, so that the winning plugins contain the desired records with the desired elements. If the load order changes afterwards, generate a new LOD patch / Occlusion.esp from scratch for it.

See https://dyndolod.info/Generation-Instructions#Prerequisites
Finalize the load order. Install mods and their requirements. Sort and resolve conflicts.

[Elaura]

Thank you for your response and explanation. I have one question, does load order, in this context, include ESL-flagged ESPs? 

With multiple mods altering LCN, Region, Editor ID, and Zone records, patches still need to be made, since they can't all load last. For example, Arthmoor's Helarchen Creek changes the Editor ID of a worldspace record, and Telengard alters another Editor ID, but leaves the one changed by Helarchen Creek alone. No matter which loads last, the unchanged records of one will overwrite the changed record in the other in Occlusion.

This is an undesirable result for me, even though Dyndolod is generating Occlusion as designed. I didn't post the log, because I don't consider this an error. The only reason I even posted was to make you aware of this behavior, in the event it is something that you wish to consider in future releases.

[sheson]

9 hours ago, Elaura said:

Thank you for your response and explanation. I have one question, does load order, in this context, include ESL-flagged ESPs? 

With multiple mods altering LCN, Region, Editor ID, and Zone records, patches still need to be made, since they can't all load last. For example, Arthmoor's Helarchen Creek changes the Editor ID of a worldspace record, and Telengard alters another Editor ID, but leaves the one changed by Helarchen Creek alone. No matter which loads last, the unchanged records of one will overwrite the changed record in the other in Occlusion.

This is an undesirable result for me, even though Dyndolod is generating Occlusion as designed. I didn't post the log, because I don't consider this an error. The only reason I even posted was to make you aware of this behavior, in the event it is something that you wish to consider in future releases.

https://dyndolod.info/Help/Load-Overwrite-Orders
The load order of mods and plugins determines which assets and plugins win conflicts.

The load order includes all active plugins.

https://dyndolod.info/Generation-Instructions#Prerequisites
Finalize the load order. Install mods and their requirements. Sort and resolve conflicts.
Typically create all other patches first. Especially all patches affecting exterior worldspaces in any way should be done before generating LOD.

Create patches and do conflict resolution with appropriate tools like Wrye Bash, Smash, xEdit etc. See https://tes5edit.github.io/docs/6-themethod.html

[Elaura]

Thank You. I guess Occlusion.esp isn't for me, then. I spend more time patching than playing. Thanks again!