wip-fallout-4-using-modorganizer-2

[Gernash]

the item lists are under Fallout4.esm\leveled Item\ {Container} 0006D4A3

 

Container_Loot_Raider_Safe 001B8812 has raider the prewar one does not.

 

You could remove any armor or weapons from any of the containers in that section

Edited March 9, 2017 by Gernash

[c0c0c0]

I'm at about level 35 and my game has become so unstable, I can't sink any more time into this save. I'm reluctantly starting my build over.  I'm especially reluctant because I'm not sure what to do better this time.

 

Here are my main three current problems:

1.  CTDs.  Probably 2-4 a night.  These do not appear to be related to specific action or place, so I am doubting mod conflict.  However, attempting to reload and do the same thing will often result in another crash.  But coming back at a different point in the game will generally *not* cause a crash.  This sounds like exactly the sort of memory issues a 64 bit game running on a 64 bit PC using 64 bit MO should *NOT* be having.

2.  Corrupted saves.  Once or twice a night, after reloading from a crash, my last 3-5 saves crash immediately upon load.  Sometimes, I can load an earlier save, and then load a later save.  Not often, though.  I've lost a lot of progress that way.

3.  MO2 Profile Problems.  After every single CTD, MO will not relaunch the game without being closed first.  Upon closing, I will get error messages about being unable to write to my MO folder.  Like this:

An error occured trying to update MO settings to C:/path/to/ModOrganizer/Fallout 4/ModOrganizer.ini: The specified path is invalid. (errorcode 161)

 

Several times, this has resulted in a profile being completely obliterated.  Mod selection, ESP activation and order, the whole thing.  I save my profiles a lot and MO is good about telling what is missing, but with LOOT sorting being as weak as it is, this causes a lot of heartache.

 

I think most of my problems stem from MO2, not really this guide.  And I've possibly made it worse by going further "off the reservation" by using the newer version of MO2 supported by LePresidente,  Certainly, my issue #3 is a  logged bug on that version.  And I have, of course, added mods beyond the original suggestion list, although I've tried to be careful with my choices there.

 

Another related oddity is that attempting to launch the game with a desktop shortcut (F4SE) without using the MO4 interface will not work consistently. I've thought that maybe having MO2 already closed while I was playing might keep it from causing further issues, but this will usually result in the game launching without the correct profile, or missing script extender plugins.

 

So, here I go again with the build out.  And I have to go ALLLLLLLLLL the way back because it apparently went wrong with the first thing I installed.  I'd like to hear if anyone else has had and overcome any of these issues.  Is it really as simple as reverting to the MO2 version that Tannin abandoned?  If the symbolic link truly necessary for set-up?  I'm wondering if this is causing some of my write fail issues.  Why is the portable mode not recommended?  I was under the impression that Mator's tools seemed to work better in that configuration (yeah, that's something else that won't work for me).

 

I've been really enjoying the game, and this guide has proven immensely helpful.  I'm far too OCD to leave well-enough alone so I was going to end up in the hole, one way or another.  Still, if anyone of you have any thought on how to dig myself out, I'd much appreciate it.

[vidalia]

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1486/? removes almost everything

 

Just specifically those 2 things?

I found Fallout 4 Loot Overhaul to be a bit too much especially with regard to cell and worldspace edits.

I have just started playing with Loot Logic and Reduction (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21366/?) which limits itself to just level lists. Taking a note of the container list ID in case I want to make my own changes. Thanks.

[vidalia]

@c0c0c0 - I am not sure if you are playing on Windows 10 or Windows 7 but in my experience MO2 + Fallout 4 on Windows 7 has been a giant fail - both with Tannin's abandoned version or the new iterations of MO2. VFS failures, crashes after exiting the game etc.

I absolutely detest NMM so my only option has been to go with Wrye Bash. My experience with Bash after playing with it over a month has been rather positive and stable. 

 

Yes Bash requires you to install mods in the data directory but unlike NMM it does not create a mess of leftover files when uninstalling mods - especially mods with overlapping files. The only things that Bash does not do is track updates from nexus and handle FOMOD installers. But there are workarounds for both.

[c0c0c0]

@c0c0c0 - I am not sure if you are playing on Windows 10 or Windows 7 but ...

I'm actually on Windows 10, which I've heard is actually worse for any game released before it was.  

 

Wrye bash, eh?  Man, I hope it doesn't come to that.  It's sporting the same UI I wasn't loving back when I was playing Oblivion.  But maybe it's the virtual directories that FO4 isn't liking.  I keep hoping that Nexus releases a new version of NMM that doesn't blow, but I strongly suspect that, despite Tannin's association, it will still be aimed at the lowest common denominator.

[vidalia]

....despite Tannin's association, it will still be aimed at the lowest common denominator.

Yes that is what I suspect too  - the new NMM will probably eschew MO style virtualization for wider support of other games on the nexus platform.

Yeah the Bash UI is not something to write home about but atleast now I am able to play and mod the game instead of rebooting my system every time VFS failed - yeah that is what I had to get MO2 to work after a crash.

[rayhne]

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1486/? removes almost everything

 

Just specifically those 2 things?

I'll have to look at those. I've been using the safe reworked one.

[rayhne]

So after much thought and some cringing I've decided not to use Realistic Junk as it is doing much more then I need done. I toyed with adding Crazy Earl's Salvage Yard and/or Immersive Scrapping but have decided not to. Right now I'm working on my patch and popping into the game to check out if they are working in the short run. I also realize that I'd forgotten to do the ENB; everything looks dark and foggy. :p

 

There are two things I'm doing that I'm thinking you might be able to advise me on.

 

I'm using a mini-quest mod that adds t-shirts. How would I get them to have an icon?

 

A couple mods add comic books and I'd like to have them have their own subcategory (Comic Books). Do I add the tag to the INV_Tags and then to the lyrconf file?

[Gernash]

OK, crashing issues.......

Welcome to Fallout 4 and MO2

the game for me is mostly stable and when it crashes it's because of specific reasons.

Do you use any of the world space mods? If so then there is the problem Full stop.

 

IF you use World space mods and Srap mods then it will CTD and if you save in an altered zone you will NOT be able to load that save.

 

Explanation.

 

You may have red me crying about Precombines and Nav meshes. The way people add mods/buildings to world space is to hide the original and drop their building etc on top, this needs either/or/both

bUseCombinedObjects=0

and/or 

No Pre Vis in the records FLAG

 

This un-combines the Precombines(all the objects you see ingame) and renders them separately, This causes the game to load/play at LOW FPS. when you enter or exit an instance (loading door) you will CTD when entering these areas as the NAVmesh is not what it's expecting and it will CTD (save before leaving doors/instance)

 

you need to have fPlayerDisableSprintingLoadingCellDistance=0 active to run in these areas as it has the same issues as Scrap mods.

 

If you load a scrap mod after the MOWIKI- Worldspace mod than you will have even more issues as I've mashed up the edits to try and Combine the NAvmesh, Previs and precombines so it gives you the best chance of running all those type of mods together without regeneration the World of Fallout 4.

 

The MOD-Wiki navmesh is a navmesh WIP as I play and find a CTD zone I remake the Navemesh and add it to that patch. This in noticeable when a Companion attempts to follow you through an area then BAM CTD. you will not notice it as much if you play solo.

 

RESOLUTION

 

1. Do not use Scrap mods, If you do do not load after Modwiki-Worldspace-Patch or Navmesh-Patch as they will break ther NO-Pre-Vis
2. Do not use worldspace mods
3. Only use 1 worldspace per zone (you will not need Worldspace or navmesh patch)

 

Testing

 

Disable Scrap mods, Worldspace Mods and Modwiki-Worldspace/Navmesh PAtch - You should just play normally unless you have scrapped everything into the DIRT. (Scrapping to much will cause the game to become unstable in those areas)

 

 

The above will fix CTD issues if you have further problems it's elsewhere are I play the game on and off for 1-3hrs per sitting and beat it with a hammer and use a save from when the game 1st came out....

[Gernash]

If you crash mo2 you need to restart it as the VFS closes ungracefully and needs to be restarted. This is just MO2 atm.,

1.  CTDs. - Worldspace/scrap mods

2.  Corrupted saves. - Worldspace/scrap mods

4.  mo2 crashing needs to restart it as the VFS closes ungracefully- normal behavior

5. Newversion of MO2 is a great step in the right direction but I do not use it as yet due to several reasons,I recommend you trying the old 2.0.7 you can just extract it somewhere it will pick up the other config and just run.

6. symbolic link truly necessary: NOPE. only need it if you move the default file location. The issues with MO2 crashing are normal  for this build Resolve the CTD ingame and all will be well

Will mod X work etc You need to link the mod so I can look at it 

 

Adding Icons to t-shirt this is generated off the INNR and Armorsmith I do not know , link mod

Unless you are a PRO

 

DO NOT USE WRYE BASH  

 

ZOMG!!!!

 

IF you need to ask why then you are not prepared.....

 

once more

I have done all the Leveled lists etc you run the Patcher you will just break stuff.

[rayhne]

Sweet Trinity, that explains so much!!!! I was not able to load saves made in .... where was that? One of the settlements. Also tended to crash when exiting certain buildings and could not load a save anywhere near the Boston Bugle building.

 

I use Scrap Everything and as much as I hate to admit it, can't really play without it (as I love building settlements). Per earlier discussion, I'm not using the worldspace or navmesh patches. I don't think I was using bUseCombinedObjects=0 but will now so hopefully that will help.

 

I hate to play without Beantown Interiors. PoE and Stumble Upon are new to my game. (I assume those are what you mean by worldspace mods.)

 

As for the icon, funny thing. Half of the items I added keywords to show the icon, the other half doesn't. Will play with it.

Edited March 9, 2017 by rayhne

[c0c0c0]

I've been using Spring Cleaning and, of course, the Worldspace mods you list on your guide.  Man, I really like Spring Cleaning, but "Worldspace" mods are a pretty big category.  So, it's truly one or the other?

 

What about disable/markfordelete?  Does that cause the same instability issues?  I can live without the free mats, but the fact that humanity has lost the ability to clean up after themselves drives me nuts!  For instance, take all the crap in Sanctuary.  Do I need to just learn to love that?

 

What about "Scrap Dead Things"?  I assume that would not cause a Worldspace conflict.  Bodies, particularly ashes, seem to hang around forever.

 

I have fPlayerDisableSprintingLoadingCellDistance=4096.  Are you saying I get better stability if I set that to 0?  What's the trade-off?

 

FWIW, my crashes are not coming with saves or screen loads.  They just ... happen.  But I got used to saving in front of every door I encounter from playing Skyrim.  I am always running with Dogmeat, though, so he might be triggering navmesh issues.

 

Side issue - did I see you post elsewhere that 3dNPC is not a good idea?  I really liked that mod in Skyrim but I can live without it in FO4.

 

Thanks for all the info.  I'm glad to know that there *is* a way forward. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by c0c0c0

[rayhne]

What does fPlayerDisableSprintingLoadingCellDistance=0 do?

 

I only Scrap in settlements, never outside it (except for the occasional eyesore on the very boundary of Sanctuary).

[c0c0c0]

I need to understand more about the scrapping.  Since you posted your warning, I've been reading up on it.  Apparently, scrapping (or even moving) certain things, like the Privet Hedge in Sanctuary or the rubble pile under the door in Hangman's Alley causes issues with culling and LOD.  I know deleting the building in Sanctuary where the workbench is causing culling issues (I made a pre-culling hotkey toggle handled it).

 

I haven't seen much about crashes, but I can see where a missing navmesh can cause one.  What about the stuff you scrap using whatever is scrappable in vanilla?  Is that all accounted for in the vanilla navmeshing?  And if navmesh is the issue, then there really isn't a difference between what is scrapped via a mod and what is scrapped via console.  Any structural change (a step, a bridge, a wall, a pile of rubble) that *removes* a path (not blocks, but removes) could cause a crash.

 

Am I understanding that right?

Edited March 9, 2017 by c0c0c0

[c0c0c0]

So, after even more reading, I strongly suspect that my CTDs are less a result of Spring Cleaning and more a result of me consoling things into Oblivion because the Spring Cleaning guy left them alone specifically because they caused CTDs.  But just having Spring Cleaning active un-combines objects and causes big performance issues in places like Hangman's which might cause additional instability.  Hangman's is one of the locations where I am most likely to have a bad save.  Further, removing anything large is going to have an impact on LODs and possibly culling.

 

These are problems I never had in Skyrim because I never built anything where I needed to move anything else out of the way.  The way the player homes were constructed pushed you done a specific, navmeshed and LOD'd path.

 

Are there any good mods that safely clean out these build areas of everything that can be removed without causing a crash?  I get the feeling that this is an issue that has confused even a large number of mod authors.

Edited March 9, 2017 by c0c0c0