SKYRIMLE Colored Nails (by Magistrate)

[Magistrate]

All the body mods you just listed (UNP or CBBE and Apachii Hair) break vanilla Skyrim and thus breaks the STEP Mandate. With that said' date=' you can use them personally as much as you like, but they won't be included in STEP.[/quote']

It's all right, I was merely posting my opinion not imposing anything.

 

Apachii hair is awful' date=' doesn't seem lore-friendly at all. In fact, it looks like it came straight out from the land of the Sims.[/quote']

Allow me to disagree here, while certain apachii hair may be out of line I (and let me stress *I*) find most of them quite fitting, but of course if by "lore-friendly" you mean low-resolution vanilla textures apachii's certainly are not.

 

I don't understand how you think coloured nails should be a lore-friendly thing in Skyrim either. I can't imagine any medieval Scandinavians painting their nails to look pretty' date=' not to mention that it looks ridiculous in game.[/quote']

 

Women were after "body beautification" since the roman times which means more than two-twousands years ago and much before medieval times. As for looking "ridiculous in game" it boils down to personal tastes, some may like them while some others may not like them in their game.

 

UNP and CBBE are a mater of taste and completely unnecessary to most people, not to mention that they are adult mods, so wouldn't be included in STEP anyway.

Again, a matter of personal taste, after all if Bethesda would have done a perfect job and included high res and beautiful textures things such as the S.T.E.P. program wouldn't need to exist. As for being an adult mod, there you are right the STEP mandate do not allow that but again, mine was merely a suggestion and not an imposition or a demand of any sort.

 

On a separate note, I didn't come to post here DEMANDING to be forcefully accepted, on the contrary, I PROPOSED my mods, knowing well acceptation final word was not up to me, so I don't really understand the hostility of your post, nor I understand what I did to warrant such hostility.

[rootsrat]

Going bit ot here, bit I'd also disagree with the statement that 99% of people use body mod...

 

Also, I personally find it silly to introduce perfect, beautiful and candy sweet people with breasts (in females case) taken out of a cheap porn movie to harsh medieval/nordic themed Skyrim world. Matter of personal taste, but to me it's ridiculous.

 

I however can see an excentric high elf female mage colouring her nails :)

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Neovalen]

I really do hate when people start jumping in on the personal attacks instead of just simply stating their opinion. Not listing any one person just as a general opinion where some of the threads on here go.

 

I, for one, agree with Magistrate on some levels that Vanilla Skyrim is a little too bland and many of the NPCs do not match their personalities/story due to their looks. Female yarls, rich people, courtesans, bards, etc should not look like they have been working days in the field (like vanilla/XCE base with all the wrinkles). The majority of the NPCs who have these issues have the complexion/dirtmap slider set correctly so they do not look overly out of place once a beautification is installed. Someone could, theoretically, go in and modify any NPCs Bethesda missed but I do think beautification is required for me to enjoy the game as it looks horribly unrealistic otherwise.

 

I use UNP because the vanilla skyrim body has a ridiculously bad looking flat female body, I'm sorry but in real life they may not all look like models but they definitely have varying sizes in breasts and shape. Not to mention, people bathe. (hence the rash of "I Bathe" type mods at the beginning of Skyrim modding)

 

As for the male body, the detail seems lost in the vanilla models and I much prefer the look of Better Males.

 

I do use the adult version of both mods as I find the "bikini"/"flap of cloth" look to be completely wrong. I believe it should be more like an undercoat for armor or nothing at all under clothing given the "time period" (I use this loosely). Technically, there are non-adult underwear versions of both mods if it was ever decided to use them. Not to mention pretty much all of the "beautification" mods require some sort of body replacer. This very issue is one of the reasons I began my guide as a separate, additional STEP-Based mod guide.

 

As you all know, I love STEP and I stay here and contribute on pretty much everything I see. I love my lore, but I also love more realism. I don't take Bethesda's vision as scripture, but rather a set of guidelines.

 

As far as this mod goes, if there was a way to apply it only to the player and/or select NPCs if he or she chooses then I don't see the issue, but I do not see it as a replacer imo.

[Besidilo]

I really do hate when people start jumping in on the personal attacks instead of just simply stating their opinion.

What, where? There's no personal attacks from my side in any part of my post, nor do I see it in anyone else's, but it's pretty obvious that you were referring to my post anyway.

 

I disapprove of such mods, because I think they're turning Skyrim (and Nexus as the result) into something that it should never be, in my opinion. But I wouldn't think of attacking the author for that reason alone, and I highly doubt my post could be interpreted as such.

 

Likewise, I do think that the nude body mods have their place in modding (I think I was using UNP last time, but haven't played the game in a while to remember and it wouldn't be a mod that I'd recommend either), but they simply don't meet the requirements to be included in STEP, hence why I said they are an unnecessary addition (no STEP mods require it, and they are both a matter of taste).

 

When it comes to the face mods, I prefer the worn, dirty look of Skyrim citizens since it reflects how hardened the Nords are through the time of war and their lifestyles. You have to remember that for every nobleman/woman who's got time to take care of their body, there would be a dozen of commoners who wouldn't view it as practical to moisturise their face with goat's milk and polish their nails.

 

Skyrim is a place of a Civil War, with monsters commonly roaming around. I doubt Roman methods of beautification of city folks would apply in this environment, but each to their own. If it was exclusive to high class court ladies, I would have no issue with that, but judging from the screenshots, the nails look like they were placed here straight from a Chinese cartoon.

 

Besides, how ridiculous STEP would become if we started including mods like this?

[Neovalen]

I really do hate when people start jumping in on the personal attacks instead of just simply stating their opinion.

What, where? There's no personal attacks from my side in any part of my post, nor do I see it in anyone else's, but it's pretty obvious that you were referring to my post anyway.

 

I disapprove of such mods, because I think they're turning Skyrim (and Nexus as the result) into something that it should never be, in my opinion. But I wouldn't think of attacking the author for that reason alone, and I highly doubt my post could be interpreted as such.

 

Likewise, I do think that the nude body mods have their place in modding (I think I was using UNP last time, but haven't played the game in a while to remember and it wouldn't be a mod that I'd recommend either), but they simply don't meet the requirements to be included in STEP, hence why I said they are an unnecessary addition (no STEP mods require it, and they are both a matter of taste).

 

When it comes to the face mods, I prefer the worn, dirty look of Skyrim citizens since it reflects how hardened the Nords are through the time of war and their lifestyles. You have to remember that for every nobleman/woman who's got time to take care of their body, there would be a dozen of commoners who wouldn't view it as practical to moisturise their face with goat's milk and polish their nails.

 

Skyrim is a place of a Civil War, with monsters commonly roaming around. I doubt Roman methods of beautification of city folks would apply in this environment, but each to their own. If it was exclusive to high class court ladies, I would have no issue with that, but judging from the screenshots, the nails look like they were placed here straight from a Chinese cartoon.

 

Besides, how ridiculous STEP would become if we started including mods like this?

I actually was not referring to your post specifically, but if you feel that way tis fine. After reading all the posts in regards to this particular Authors postings of late I found the reception (although warranted because of style) to be a little harsh/short instead of giving constructive feedback. (i.e. "I can't believe you think this is good...", "No, Just No", etc.) People need to learn to provide feedback just not completely dismiss someone's hard work.

 

As far as Skyrim is concerned: Yes there is a civil war going on, people have their opinions, but not all of them are in the fight/are warriors. One thing I note in particular is there are MANY characters just trying to stay OUT of the war.

 

I don't think it would be "rediculous" at all for the reasons stated above. However, the STEP mantra above does not allow for interpretation (i.e. if it's not Vanilla style it's not in STEP) and that is fine. Personally, I would not see the harm in perhaps offering a "pack" for it. In any case, if they get accepted or not makes no difference to me. I am just putting my opinion out there for people to see and make their own choice.

[TechAngel85]

My statements have only been towards the inclusion of the mod in STEP as the author stated on another one of his threads was the reason for his posting. I hope that my feedback has been more constructive in my replies than anything else. If not, I sincerely apologize because I've meant no disrespect.

 

You said it exactly though...a pack is where this would belong. The packs being discussed will not have to follow the STEP Mandate and once the wiki is opened up to everyone, users will be able to submit their own packs. This is still a little ways down the road though.

[stoppingby4now]

General rule of thumb: We expect critiquing, but it should be constructive. Some of the comments made recently have been rather pointless to this end.

 

Let us foster an environment that leverages your enthusiasm within a culture of good humor ... and rigorous analysis!

[Farlo]

General rule of thumb: We expect critiquing, but it should be constructive. Some of the comments made recently have been rather pointless to this end.

 

Let us foster an environment that leverages your enthusiasm within a culture of good humor ... and rigorous analysis!

 

This.  I'd also like to add that this entire forum is about breaking down a mod and critiquing every tiny aspect of it.  I don't see any personal attacks in these posts, merely people trying to argue (fairly well I might add) their reasoning for these kind of mods from both sides.  Frankly, if you can't deal with disapproval or rebuttals to your opinions, mod suggestions, etc. then don't post here.

[Magistrate]

@Neovalen: Thank you for your post. If "harsh" posts may discourage modders and push them to the "why the hell I bother sharing", your kind of posts do just the opposite :) Granted this particular mod is certainly a very small thing which required a very small effort from myself time-wise.

 

@Besidilo: The beauty of TES games is that anyone of us can play the game the way they want thanks to mod. When I post a mod I do not expect to be greeted and thanked as an emperor because I fully realize that while some may like what I do, some other may dislike it, and that is just fine, as well as it's fine to get constructive criticism or lore-related questions. What I personally do find discouraging is when people in the process of expressing their opinion feel the need to trash someone else's work, no matter how small. But perhaps I misunderstood you as I am sure you did not have this precise intent.

 

To put it in other words, if you'd make a mod which would increase the number of wrinkles in people or make them look dirtier I may not like that but I wouldn't call that "ridiculous" simply because it wouldn't conform to my particular tastes regarding the game, I'd merely state that I don't like it (or suggest how, in my opinion, it could be improved).

 

Anyways, I have no harsh feelings towards you or anybody else for that matter, really, after all we are all here for the same reason (we like Skyrim enough to devote time to it) :)

[Trexasle]

Nail polish only came mostly in shades of green because of the abundance of malachite. It's Lore Friendly Sure' date=' but only Non Royal people would have anything other than a green shade.[/quote']

Following that' date=' one could use charcoal to get black, snowberries to get red, purple mountain flowers extract to get pink and so on. By the way I didn't know nail polish was dated 3000 BC, I mean I knew it was not something recent but 5k years ago is quite a while actually :)[/quote']

This is true, However, the problem with that back then people did not have time to mix any of those things with Oil, they were also as you could guess highly Flammable, not a good idea if you were a worker or sorts. Which is why I said it was Lore Friendly, up to a point. A Royal might use nail polish, along with some merchants, but it's certainly not everyone. 

 

I certainly think it's time line friendly, it's just not exactly Fitting with Vanilla Skyrim Which is what STEP is about in the end. And while I think it looks nice I'm more of a natural beauty kind of guy and nail polish just seemed stupid to me in that sense.

[Magistrate]

This is true' date=' However, the problem with that back then people did not have time to mix any of those things with Oil, they were also as you could guess highly Flammable, not a good idea if you were a worker or sorts. Which is why I said it was Lore Friendly, up to a point. A Royal might use nail polish, along with some merchants, but it's certainly not everyone.[/quote']

 

As for the first part of the post, by checking the internet about the history of nail polish I found interesting bits of info to an extent I would not have imagined:

 

https://www.alligator.org/blogs/lifestyle/thefbomb/article_92924820-8e3d-11e1-b5bf-001a4bcf887a.html

 

 

3200 B.C., Babylonia

 

Excavations of royal tombs found the first manicure set in ancient Babylonia. Babylonian males of all classes wore nail polish, but instead of using henna like Indians are speculated to have used prior, they used kohl. The color of the nail worn by the males signified class, with black worn by the higher classes and green worn by the lower classes.

 

3000 B.C., China/Egypt

 

The Chinese used nail color as a distinction of class and dynasty. They combined egg whites, beeswax, Arabic gum and flower petals to create a pigment that they would soak their nails in for hours to reach a desirable effect. The process was reserved for the upper class, and the color worn generally reflected the colors of the ruling dynasty.

 

Around the same time as the Chinese, ancient Egyptians women began staining their nails using henna. However, unlike the Chinese, people of all classes were permitted to beautify their fingernails. Like the Babylonian men, colors were used to distinguish among the classes, with the lower classes wearing pale colors and the upper classes wearing shades of red. Nefertiti is said to have painted her nails with ruby tones, while Cleopatra wore hers blood red.

 

So according to these depending on the culture nail polish was either reserved for higher classes or it was for everybody and it was used to symbolize the class (black for the higher class down to green for the lower classes). To that, I can add that during roman times women were so much after beautification that they used to use lead, which is poisonous (granted they didn't know at that time), to "better" themselves.

 

I certainly think it's time line friendly' date=' it's just not exactly Fitting with Vanilla Skyrim Which is what STEP is about in the end. And while I think it looks nice I'm more of a natural beauty kind of guy and nail polish just seemed stupid to me in that sense.[/quote']

 

As for the preference oriented towards a more natural kind of beauty, I can't really object since ultimately it boils down to individual, personal taste. :)

 

Circa the possibility of introducing the nail polish change to either the PC only or some NPCs only there is a way, in case of the PC it would need a custom race (which could sport a custom body) in case of NPCs one could use something like The Spice of Life (TSOL) to change only certain NPCs and give them a unique bodytype.

[AncientKane]

Circa the possibility of introducing the nail polish change to either the PC only or some NPCs only there is a way, in case of the PC it would need a custom race (which could sport a custom body) in case of NPCs one could use something like The Spice of Life (TSOL) to change only certain NPCs and give them a unique bodytype. 

Exactly. With TSOL almost every female NPC becomes customizable. I personally would never put these nails on a hard working NPC like Gerdur in Riverwood or Anneke, who slaves in the mines. But they are absolutely natural on Charakters like Breylina in the college of winterhold or Muiri in Markarth for example.

[Trexasle]

This is true' date=' However' date=' the problem with that back then people did not have time to mix any of those things with Oil, they were also as you could guess highly Flammable, not a good idea if you were a worker or sorts. Which is why I said it was Lore Friendly, up to a point. A Royal might use nail polish, along with some merchants, but it's certainly not everyone.[/quote'']

 

As for the first part of the post, by checking the internet about the history of nail polish I found interesting bits of info to an extent I would not have imagined:

 

https://www.alligator.org/blogs/lifestyle/thefbomb/article_92924820-8e3d-11e1-b5bf-001a4bcf887a.html

 

3200 B.C., Babylonia

 

Excavations of royal tombs found the first manicure set in ancient Babylonia. Babylonian males of all classes wore nail polish, but instead of using henna like Indians are speculated to have used prior, they used kohl. The color of the nail worn by the males signified class, with black worn by the higher classes and green worn by the lower classes.

 

3000 B.C., China/Egypt

 

The Chinese used nail color as a distinction of class and dynasty. They combined egg whites, beeswax, Arabic gum and flower petals to create a pigment that they would soak their nails in for hours to reach a desirable effect. The process was reserved for the upper class, and the color worn generally reflected the colors of the ruling dynasty.

 

Around the same time as the Chinese, ancient Egyptians women began staining their nails using henna. However, unlike the Chinese, people of all classes were permitted to beautify their fingernails. Like the Babylonian men, colors were used to distinguish among the classes, with the lower classes wearing pale colors and the upper classes wearing shades of red. Nefertiti is said to have painted her nails with ruby tones, while Cleopatra wore hers blood red.

 

So according to these depending on the culture nail polish was either reserved for higher classes or it was for everybody and it was used to symbolize the class (black for the higher class down to green for the lower classes). To that, I can add that during roman times women were so much after beautification that they used to use lead, which is poisonous (granted they didn't know at that time), to "better" themselves.

 

 

We're talking about Middle Age Europe not BC China and Egypt, The act of cosmetics changes from Era to Era, Females in Middle Age europe for example loved pale skin and tend to go through drastic measures to do so. blonde hair was also in at the time as well. Even back then they're were certain things that were in or not. So one cultures cosmetic choice would certainly not be another, unless it explicitly states that they shared cosmetic choices with other cultures (China Introducing Europeans to the toothbrush for examples.) Using OTHER Culture cosmetics history doesn't work that way.

 

The Reason Malachite was used for Nail polish was not only that it didn't need OIL, but it was also safer and common, that's why I said that unless you work HARD for it, Medieval Europeans would probably not be rocking nail polish, and back then As you can plainly see with the link above, they were more about facial cosmetics and not exactly nails.

[Magistrate]

If Skyrim was a "realistic medieval game" I would have agreed with you, but considered it is a fantasy game I believe it's quite hard to compare it to a specific time period and location, if on one hand Nords resemble vikings and Bretons medieval europeans for instance, if you take Imperials they resemble romans, moreover if you take orcs they have many similarities with japanese samurais (or american-indians eventually) or again if you take dark elves they are close to the nomad populations of central europe.

 

Interesting bits about pale skinned women and the use of malachite though.

[Trexasle]

If Skyrim was a "realistic medieval game" I would have agreed with you, but considered it is a fantasy game I believe it's quite hard to compare it to a specific time period and location, if on one hand Nords resemble vikings and Bretons medieval europeans for instance, if you take Imperials they resemble romans, moreover if you take orcs they have many similarities with japanese samurais (or american-indians eventually) or again if you take dark elves they are close to the nomad populations of central europe.

 

Interesting bits about pale skinned women and the use of malachite though.

Yeah, I doubt that Orcs will wait nail polish either, especially with their very japanese (As you said.) Warrior styled backgrounds.

 

And while the Imperials do INDEED represent Romans, they represent romans AFTER they were already taken over by Europe, which pretty much marred their way of life. (That's what I believe the Forsworn are made to represent.)

 

Again, it's timeline friends as in the timeline that Skyrim was based on it actually existed and makes some sense, it's just isn't really LORE Friendly in terms of what Skyrim was going for, which is what STEP is about. I'm just stating what others MIGHT have a problem with in terms of what Lore and such is about. Yes we're here to have fun with a game we love (Which is why I'm not exactly raging at this mod, It's not a bad mod at all.). But For STEP, I don't think it should be consider.

 

Long story short.

 

Cool mod, just not exactly lore friendly due to Skyrim Limitations. (Other mods notwithstanding, which sadly won't be included in STEP either.)