TES5Edit (by ElminsterAU)

[frihyland 3]

Discussion thread:

TES5Edit by ElminsterAU

Wiki Link

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TES5Edit 

 

TES5Edit Cleaning Guide

 

TES5Edit Mod Cleaning Tutorial 

 

Get it, read about it , use it.

[zilav 54]

All plugins from the Data folder are sorted into 2 groups by extension (and extension only, ESM flag in plugin's header doesn't matter): *.ESM and *.ESP, then each group is sorted by plugin's file timestamp. Then xEdit loads all ESM, then all ESPs. The order of masters in plugins doesn't affect anything.

[dubious 0]

Interesting.  Thanks for the clarification.  I'll be sure to pass that along.

 

Here are the timestamps for the LOOT sorted respective files.  This appears to be using the "Modified Date" in the file attributes.
 

Usual PN- sort order by LOOT:
Core.esm 2000-04-22 09:00:00
Equipment.esm 2000-05-27 20:00:01 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:50:45)
Cyberware.esp (ESM flag) 2007-12-31 19:24:00
Rebalance.esp (ESM flag) 2007-12-31 20:00:00
Extra Options.esm 2007-12-31 20:01:00 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:52:51)
Rebalance Complete.esp 2008-01-01 00:26:30
All DLC.esp 2008-01-01 01:22:00
UPP.esp 2016-06-12 15:56:36
UPP-PN Patch.esp 2016-06-12 15:56:36
 

Unfortunately in this case, xEdit load order for plugins (with no external change to the dates) does not indicate the file date it sorted upon.  But assuming it is also using the "Modified Date" attribute, "Extra Options.esm" should still come after "Equipment.esm", instead of the following:
Core.esm (2000-04-22 09:00:00)

Extra Options.esm 2007-12-31 20:01:00 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:52:51)
Equipment.esm 2000-05-27 20:00:01 (created: 2017-04-26 18:02:48; Accessed: 2016-02-10 10:50:45)

 

So it appears we have an anomaly.  Perhaps the assumption xEdit's using the "Modified Date" attribute is incorrect?  The "created" date is the same for both the swapped files, but the "Accessed" date would put Equipment first.  Looks like something else is involved, at least in this instance.
 

-Dubious-

[zilav 54]

Modified date is used.

Are you running through MO? If so then run without it, I don't trust that tool.

[dubious 0]

No to MO.  I use Wrye Flash for FNV.  And I was reminded to close all other "load order aware" tools when using xEdit, so when I was testing this issue I made certain nothing else was open other than Windows Explorer and NoteTab Pro (for note taking).

 

-Dubious-

[gromulos 0]

I'm fairly certain the only person who will know who I am or who will be familiar with my work would be "dubious".

 

With that said, I made an account and logged in because I am very interested in seeing how his issue turns out, I've never seen anything like this before and the end result may be very informative and help other people in the future.

[zilav 54]

Launch GECK and check in what order it lists the plugins in selection window.

[dubious 0]

GECK-PU Selection load order for "PN-" related:
Core.esm
Equipment.esm
Cyberware.esp
Rebalance.esp
Extra Options.esm
Rebalance Complete.esp
All DLC.esp
UPP.esp
UPP-PN Patch.esp
 

FYI: To save you having to look back thru the thread, this matches my LOOT sort order.

 

-Dubious-

Edited April 28, 2017 by dubious

[zilav 54]

The last question - what order we are talking about? The one that xEdit shows in plugin selection window, or the one it actually loads plugins after you clicked OK?

[dubious 0]

The one after it loads the selected plugin and it's masters.

 

I have noticed that sometimes the order presented for selection is different than my sorted game order, but that doesn't present a problem.  The issue is solely that if the order of the master plugins once loaded doesn't match the game sorted sequence, it becomes impossible to use "sort masters" to reorder the plugin's masters to match the game sort order.

 

-Dubious-

Edited April 28, 2017 by dubious

[zilav 54]

Does it show the proper load order in the selection window?

[dubious 0]

No.  Even the ESM extension files are not in the same sequence as the LOOT sort when they are presented in the selection window.  Mostly they are, but there are some not related to PN- that are not in date/time sequence.

 

Edit:  Amend that.  The ESMs are in the same sequence as in LOOT.  I keep getting tripped up by "false ESM flagged" ESPs.

 

-Dubious-

Edited April 29, 2017 by dubious

[dubious 0]

That previous reply must be confusing, but I appear to have timed out of the window to edit it.

 

The selection window presents the ESM files, in the same order as LOOT sorts them, within the criteria of xEdit: ESMs then ESPs.  The "false ESM flagged" ESP files are sorted with the other ESPs.  In particular, Equipment.esm comes immediately after Core.esm.

 

The resulting load order in xEdit does not match the sort order in the selection window.  In particular, "Extra Options.esm" comes immediately after Core instead of after Equipment.

 

Hope that clears things up.

 

-Dubious-

Edited April 29, 2017 by dubious

[zilav 54]

So you are saying that they are sorted in the right order in selection window, then you select all those pugins, click OK and xEdit loads them in different order? Using the latest 3.2 version? No idea how this could even be happening. You are the first one to report such issue since 2012.

Edited April 29, 2017 by zilav

[gromulos 0]

it should be noted here that some of those PN files have the wrong master list applied to them and have to be corrected in Xedit using the sort master feature. I've used PN my self and had to do this every single time. Just a FYI for all.

[dubious 0]

Oh, I KNOW how weird this is.  That summary is correct.  There isn't even a reason in the "Extra Options" plugin master file list, as it only requires "Core" to precede it.  And so far only this one file seems to cause the change between the "selection" window and the "loaded" list (now that I understand how xEdit sorts).  Somehow, at some point it is ignoring the date/time stamps of the selection sort before it loads the "masters" in favor of the order in the plugin in question even though that is not supposed to factor in.

 

But ... if I reset EO's date/time stamp to place it immediately after Core as it seems to want, everything seems to work as expected.  I've adjusted the sort position of the remaining PN files "masters" and resolved my initial problem.  It's just that something in the EO file that shouldn't logically be affecting xEdit's load order, is.  Which is why I wanted to bring it to your attention.  Whatever that something is, it might apply to some other plugin.

 

At this point I can understand if you want to just make a note of it in the bug tracker and wait to see if anything further comes to shed light on the matter.  It's such a limited circumstance it doesn't warrant too much time in the scope of other more pressing priorities.  It just the sort of thing that "bugs me", even though I know I have to let it go.

 

-Dubious-